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Old July 1st, 2007, 11:19 AM   #81
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I think the principle should be that because the government is investing billions in the railways through subsidy it should own the track and rolling stock, and merely tender out the right to operate certain parts of the network to the private sector.

That it should retain certain parts in the public sector for quality assurance purposes (if the private sector is worse than the state they can be fired).

Finally it should get rid of the ridiculous franchising system where names change everytime the operator does and create branded subnetworks so people know where the hell a given service is actually going. British Railway history is blessed with a plethora of relavant names. Use those and not the words 'Virgin'* 'Arriva' or 'First'.

*I think this really started to piss me off when I went to Euston one day and realised that I was boarding a train called the 'Virgin Invader'.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 02:42 PM   #82
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The current set-up (Public track private train operations) could be the optimal route to follow...
That's the best thing but some non profitable relations must be support by state.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 10:38 AM   #83
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First Olympic bullet trains arrive in Britain

The first of the 140mph Japanese bullet trains that will go into service on the UK rail network in 2009 arrived in Britain.

The six-car Hitachi Class 395 train reached Southampton on board a roll-on, roll-off ferry.

The bullet trains will be used by the Southeastern train company for domestic services on the soon-to-be-completed final section of the Channel Tunnel Rail link from Kent into central London.

The trains will also play a key role in 2012 London Olympics transport provision by taking spectators from St Pancras station in London to the Olympics site at Stratford, east London, in just seven minutes in a service to be known as the Olympic Javelin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1965

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Old August 25th, 2007, 04:34 AM   #84
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This is so strange. I believe this is one of the first Asian trains to set foot in Europe?
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Old August 25th, 2007, 06:23 AM   #85
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Why did they decide to buy Japanese instead of European models?
I mean the Germans and Frech have decent train building technology without shipping trains half way around the globe.
I wonder what was the deciding point in selecting them?
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Old August 25th, 2007, 06:59 AM   #86
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Well probably just playing around with money or too much time or probably because of japan's bullet train technology. I know France's TGV broke the rail record but Japan is currently doing some changes to their bullet train.
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Old August 25th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #87
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Well probably just playing around with money or too much time or probably because of japan's bullet train technology. I know France's TGV broke the rail record but Japan is currently doing some changes to their bullet train.
Something to note about TGV is that it uses shared network. The majority of the Shinkansen network in Japan does not share the network. There are some sections known as Mini-Shinkansen along the Joetsu and Nagano lines, as well as the Seikan Tunnel although no Shinkansen service rolls through there yet (coming soon), but Tohoku and Tokaido-Sanyo lines are dedicated for exclusive Shinkansen use along their entire service routes. This sets them in a separate and superior class to TGV service standards.

TGV may very well have a superior rolling stock. That is important, obviously, but the TGV hurts itself by piggybacking on existing shared infrastructure since it hampers the competitiveness of the service by handicapping the rolling stock from running at its full capability. The Japaense have excelled in their network approach in this regard, and have also pushed the technology as far as it can go within the track design alignment that exists today. The Tokaido Line is today going at 300km/h and the track alignment really does not allow speeds beyond that, even though they have rolling stock that can top it (fastech 360, which will run at 320km/h on the Tohoku Line, downgraded from 360km/h due to noise and other environmental complications that came up during testing trial runs).
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Old August 25th, 2007, 07:32 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by japanese001 View Post
The first of the 140mph Japanese bullet trains that will go into service on the UK rail network in 2009 arrived in Britain.

The six-car Hitachi Class 395 train reached Southampton on board a roll-on, roll-off ferry.

The bullet trains will be used by the Southeastern train company for domestic services on the soon-to-be-completed final section of the Channel Tunnel Rail link from Kent into central London.

The trains will also play a key role in 2012 London Olympics transport provision by taking spectators from St Pancras station in London to the Olympics site at Stratford, east London, in just seven minutes in a service to be known as the Olympic Javelin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1965

It looks like the Tsubame
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Old August 25th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #89
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Something to note about TGV is that it uses shared network. The majority of the Shinkansen network in Japan does not share the network.
...
TGV may very well have a superior rolling stock. That is important, obviously, but the TGV hurts itself by piggybacking on existing shared infrastructure since it hampers the competitiveness of the service by handicapping the rolling stock from running at its full capability.

This is simply not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonBVE View Post
Well probably just playing around with money or too much time or probably because of japan's bullet train technology. I know France's TGV broke the rail record but Japan is currently doing some changes to their bullet train.
Hitachi wanted into the European market. The UK wanted another player in the UK market to encourage competition. Hitachi gave a good price...

By the way, this *is not* a bullet train. It comes from the A-train family of commuter EMUs.


[Add] There are also a few extra pictures at http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_v...n_britain.html

Last edited by 33Hz; August 25th, 2007 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Added link
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Old August 25th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #90
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and it will be the beginning of many many more products from the east...

The Irish Railways already exploit many different types trainsets built in Japan. The recently ordered new Intercity trainsets for Ireland will again come from the east. The Spanish RENFE runs around with locomotives (251 series) of originally Japanese origin. So its not entirely new, this development. And if the offer good products for good money, why not?
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Old August 25th, 2007, 06:30 PM   #91
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This is simply not true.
What are you talking about? The TGV is not on its own dedicated and segregated network for the entire trip, this is a fact.
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Old August 25th, 2007, 07:14 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziemon View Post
and it will be the beginning of many many more products from the east...

The Irish Railways already exploit many different types trainsets built in Japan. The recently ordered new Intercity trainsets for Ireland will again come from the east. The Spanish RENFE runs around with locomotives (251 series) of originally Japanese origin. So its not entirely new, this development. And if the offer good products for good money, why not?

RENFE 251, 269, 279, 289 and 299 series are Mitsubishi design, but all of them were made in Spain (just the first two or three units of each series were made in Japan). Spanish railway enterprises, as CAF and MACOSA, paid to Mitsubishi to let them make their locomotives in Spain.

However, these series of trains are usually called "Japonesas" (Japanese) .
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Old August 26th, 2007, 09:51 AM   #93
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I hope it has more luggage room than the Shinkansen's I travelled on last month in Japan. They were wholly inadequate for luggage, although it did seem that the Japanese travelled much lighter than us Europeans.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 09:56 AM   #94
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I hope it has more luggage room than the Shinkansen's I travelled on last month in Japan. They were wholly inadequate for luggage, although it did seem that the Japanese travelled much lighter than us Europeans.
Most Sinkansen train models are built by a mix of companies, the 700 series was a conglomeration of Hitachi, Kawasaki, Kinki Sharyo, and Nippon Sharyo. Hitachi may not have designed the interior, and I presume that the interior design goes to a different company and the train companies only work on the body and general design of the train.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 01:54 PM   #95
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What are you talking about? The TGV is not on its own dedicated and segregated network for the entire trip, this is a fact.

This is true but I don't see your point. The fact that the TGV can use the old network (where it shares the tracks) on the final sections of its routes is an advantage as it can reach more destinations, not an handicap as you say.
Anyway, the dedicated network is quite huge: from Paris to le Mans and Tours westbound, to Marseille and Montpellier southbound, to Brussels and Calais northbound it can run at full speed without sharing its tracks. Brussels-Marseille is probably one of the longest trip in the world that you can do at 300km/h on a dedicated track with only 3-4 stops.
The Shinkansen doesn't share its tracks because the "regular" network is only 1 meter gauge in Japan, which is not suitable for high speed.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 01:59 PM   #96
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These trains will use the Channel Tunnel as well?
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Old August 27th, 2007, 02:31 PM   #97
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no

(Japan non-Shinkansen network uses 1067 mm or 3'6'' gauge, not 1000 mm, anyway)
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Old August 27th, 2007, 02:38 PM   #98
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This is true but I don't see your point. The fact that the TGV can use the old network (where it shares the tracks) on the final sections of its routes is an advantage as it can reach more destinations, not an handicap as you say.
Anyway, the dedicated network is quite huge: from Paris to le Mans and Tours westbound, to Marseille and Montpellier southbound, to Brussels and Calais northbound it can run at full speed without sharing its tracks. Brussels-Marseille is probably one of the longest trip in the world that you can do at 300km/h on a dedicated track with only 3-4 stops.
The Shinkansen doesn't share its tracks because the "regular" network is only 1 meter gauge in Japan, which is not suitable for high speed.
The other disadvantage of the Shinkansen in Japan, and not sharing it's tracks is that often it means you have to go to a special station which is not in the most central of area's. I had such experiences in Kobe and Osaka.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #99
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no

(Japan non-Shinkansen network uses 1067 mm or 3'6'' gauge, not 1000 mm, anyway)
Than what's the meaning of the whole thing? Why not make the system so Eurostars could use it, and in case the new japenese trains could use the tunnel? Why the different gauges?
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Old August 27th, 2007, 08:49 PM   #100
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Than what's the meaning of the whole thing? Why not make the system so Eurostars could use it, and in case the new japenese trains could use the tunnel? Why the different gauges?
I think you have missed the point. Eurostar is a high-speed intercity train designed for 2 to 3 hour trips between cities with few stops.

Class 395 (the Hitachi trains being talked about here) are commuter trains designed for rapid loading and unloading and high acceleration. They will use part of the HS1 track to get to UK destinations.

Eurostars also use the HS1. Gauge has nothing to do with this conversation and is an issue only in Japan.
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