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Old December 27th, 2014, 03:37 PM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippas View Post

You forget one thing. A lot of people travel from Frankfurt to all the places you mentioned with connecting flights.
Well, Ulukai's list is made up of O&D traffic mostly. Don't have the detailed data currently available, but i.e. remember Berlin being ~70 to 80% O&D. Connecting traffic is more important on intercontinental and many European routes (not including those in the list).

Bases on traffic and possible benefits, highest priority for contiguous high speed rail corridors should be Düsseldorf - Köln - Frankfurt - Stuttgart - München, followed by Hamburg - Hannover - Frankfurt - Basel. Other lines such as Berlin - Köln, or Berlin - München are nice, but by far not as urgent as the afforementioned two lines.

The real problem is not that Germany would prefer it's Autobahnen over rail, but our dumb politicians are generally not even thinking about providing enough money for infrastructure, but rather spend it for exaggerated social welfare, unnecessary regulation of every part of life and completely beyond-brain currency rescue politics. In fact, even Autobahnen are suffering of not enough funding and major traffic routes like A1, A3, A5, A6 and A8 are feared for regularly becoming parking areas of several 100kms length because urgently needed upgrading projects cannot progress due to lack of funds.

Last edited by Rohne; December 27th, 2014 at 03:49 PM.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 05:51 PM   #542
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Don't they have any Rhür area - Hannover upgrade plans?
Dear Suburbanist, not every word in German is spelt with "ü". What you wrote reads more like "scrambled eggs" in German.
Ruhr-Hannover is not the slowest section in the German network. Of it, Hamm to Bielefeld was the Bundesbahn's first experiment in upgrading, going mostly at 200 kmh, but being so bumpy you feel more like riding a horse than an ICE2. East of Bielefeld, the line briefly accelerates to 200 kmh, but cruises mostly at around 150. Here the curvy layout of the line could be improved, with a tunnel to bypass Minden (check any map).
But even on the Oebisfelde-Spandau section, which is nominally a 250 kmh HSR, ICEs only twice briefly speed up tp 250 kmh, otherwise moving at 230, 200, and somewhere fairly west even as low as 150. No real idea why, the bird reserve section, where speeds drop to 200 kmh, is the least of the problem, quickly bypassed.
I am sure if there were such superb services on offer in Germany like Paris-Lyon, people would use them. On Köln-Berlin ICEs, there are plenty of people who go the whole way, despite the rather poor traveling time. DB could easily epxeriment on introducing more than hourly services (twice hourly in rush hour and on weekends) here, but it only has old IC train stock to offer, as no new trains are in sight. These old IC trains run on weekends to relieve pressure on the system, and they are artificially slowed down by making them stop in small towns so people do not notice that due to the lack of the ICE system described above, the ICs are just as fast (or max 15 min slower) than the ICEs.
If new trains ever come and if DB feels bold, it should instead offer an all-stops service with its ICEs as at present, and perhaps 30 minutes later another service stopping only in Berlin Hbf, Hannover, Dortmund, and Cologne.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 06:34 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by Rohne View Post
The real problem is not that Germany would prefer it's Autobahnen over rail, but our dumb politicians are generally not even thinking about providing enough money for infrastructure, but rather spend it for exaggerated social welfare, unnecessary regulation of every part of life and completely beyond-brain currency rescue politics. In fact, even Autobahnen are suffering of not enough funding and major traffic routes like A1, A3, A5, A6 and A8 are feared for regularly becoming parking areas of several 100kms length because urgently needed upgrading projects cannot progress due to lack of funds.
That sounds like most countries these days.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 06:46 PM   #544
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Has Germany completely shelved plans for maglev? They sold the tech in Shanghai but haven't used it domestically yet. Wouldn't some of those routes be a good fit for it or does maglev have more opposition?
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Old December 27th, 2014, 06:48 PM   #545
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Has Germany completely shelved plans for maglev? They sold the tech in Shanghai but haven't used it domestically yet. Wouldn't some of those routes be a good fit for it or does maglev have more opposition?
I think it's gone, due to cost.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 07:01 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
On Köln-Berlin ICEs, there are plenty of people who go the whole way, despite the rather poor traveling time. DB could easily epxeriment on introducing more than hourly services (twice hourly in rush hour and on weekends) here, but it only has old IC train stock to offer, as no new trains are in sight.
The old rolling-stock is also necessary for the weird telescoping procedure in Hamm. Exactly my thought, too. Do this service half an hour to Dortmund, having hourly trains via Wuppertal and via Düsseldorf to Cologne. It could save time and alternating skip-stop Bielefeld/Hamm could be possible.

Despite competition with bus-service ICE does not suffer from less passengers. Travelling Cologne-Berlin without seat-reservation is a mess or ends up with plenty of beers in the bord-restaurant.

The tunnel around Minden seems to be no subject of negotiation anymore. As it was written before, focus is on closing HSR-gap Frankfurt-Mannheim it seems.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 07:20 PM   #547
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GERMANY | High Speed Rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
If new trains ever come and if DB feels bold, it should instead offer an all-stops service with its ICEs as at present, and perhaps 30 minutes later another service stopping only in Berlin Hbf, Hannover, Dortmund, and Cologne.

That's kind of what Japan does. The faster services come far more often. In short, high speed rail is seen as a way to connect major cities. Slower all-stops services run hourly. The new maglev will run direct service every 15 minutes. Local all-stops will run hourly.

http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/inter...chday=20141227

A local station may have 12 trains pass before one stops (hourly). Keep in mind though that station spacing in Japan is much shorter (30-40km) so it was necessary to build the ability to pass slower trains into the system.

Last edited by bluemeansgo; December 29th, 2014 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Autocorrect
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Old December 31st, 2014, 10:35 PM   #548
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 08:29 PM   #549
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Great video.
What is the length of this tunnel?
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Old January 4th, 2015, 02:05 AM   #550
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7.7 km.
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Old January 6th, 2015, 01:44 PM   #551
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During the refit of ICE1 and ICE2 the power electronics are changed from GTO to IGBT. For some reason it's power output drops from 4800 kW to 3800 kW per power car, making an already slow HST even slower. Why this reduction?
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Old January 12th, 2015, 05:57 PM   #552
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Do you know if they are building Erfurt–Leipzig/Halle high-speed railway line?




http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Erfur...-speed_railway
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Old January 12th, 2015, 07:45 PM   #553
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Any news on Frankfurt-Mannheim line?
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Old January 12th, 2015, 09:38 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by Goy View Post
Do you know if they are building Erfurt–Leipzig/Halle high-speed railway line?


http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Erfur...-speed_railway
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=487
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Old January 12th, 2015, 09:46 PM   #555
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They should build a HSR line Berlin-dresden, it could boost East Germany economy. I'd like to see these HSR lines in East Germany:

Berlin - Postdam - Magderburg
Magdebourg - Leipzig
Leipzig - Dresden
Dresden - Cheminitz - Zickwau - Gera - Jena
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Old January 12th, 2015, 10:44 PM   #556
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They should build a HSR line Berlin-dresden, it could boost East Germany economy. I'd like to see these HSR lines in East Germany:

Berlin - Postdam - Magderburg
Magdebourg - Leipzig
Leipzig - Dresden
Dresden - Cheminitz - Zickwau - Gera - Jena
I'd like to see Munich-Regensburg-Plzen-Praha and Munich-Innsbruck-Venezia. Eastern Germany already got enough new infrastructure, they should try to get on their feet on their own.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 12:21 AM   #557
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I'd like to see Munich-Regensburg-Plzen-Praha and Munich-Innsbruck-Venezia. Eastern Germany already got enough new infrastructure, they should try to get on their feet on their own.
I agree with you but not totaly. Munich-Praha is ok! I think it could be a Paneuropean HSP: Paris-Strasbourg-Stuttgart-Munich-Regensburg-Plzen-Praha. But the second line you proposed I have doubts. Austria has many mountains. It is not possible a HSR there. Innsbruck - Venezia is not realistic. It would be too expensive and it would take many time to get ready. Not possible. I think it is better to build a HSR Vienna-Graz-Ljubljana-Venezia. Low lands.

So about a Berlin-Dresden line it should be priority to Germany gouvernment. Russia is trying to regain influence in East Europe and Dresden is a strategical city. It is a point of linking with many cities in East Europe. Dresden - Wroclaw - Warsaw line could be an interessant project or Berlin - Dresden - Praha - Linz.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 01:12 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by Goy View Post
I agree with you but not totaly. Munich-Praha is ok! I think it could be a Paneuropean HSP: Paris-Strasbourg-Stuttgart-Munich-Regensburg-Plzen-Praha. But the second line you proposed I have doubts. Austria has many mountains. It is not possible a HSR there. Innsbruck - Venezia is not realistic. It would be too expensive and it would take many time to get ready. Not possible. I think it is better to build a HSR Vienna-Graz-Ljubljana-Venezia. Low lands.
There already is a paneuropean HSR project called Magistrale for Europe and it doesn't run to Praha, but Budapest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magistrale_for_Europe

This is for the simple reason that Austria is not just mountains. There are also rather flat areas where HSR is already operational. Especially the western railway is to be named for that purpose with some 230-240 km of HSR between Vienna and Attnang-Puchheim. The second route mentioned by bavarian urbanist does also contain HSR sections in Austria and once everything is finished in 2025 there will be one continuous HSR from the German border in the north all the way to the Italian border in the south.

Regarding your proposal for Vienna - Venezia. One day, there might be HSR connection between those cities (150 km are under construction in Austria at the moment). As it is today it most certainly won't run via Ljubljana but Villach - Tarvis - Udine - Venezia.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 01:36 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
I'd like to see Munich-Regensburg-Plzen-Praha and Munich-Innsbruck-Venezia. Eastern Germany already got enough new infrastructure, they should try to get on their feet on their own.
Very much agree. There should be sufficient demand from Bayern into Praha and other nearby countries for robust HS network.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 02:31 AM   #560
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Very much agree. There should be sufficient demand from Bayern into Praha and other nearby countries for robust HS network.
Guy, it is not realistic for while. Beacause of 2 reasons:

1 - Czech Republic have not enough money to build it without EU funds;

2 - Currently countries from Central Europe (Czech Republic, Hungary...) have anti-west and pro-russia gouvernments. They don't want it.

I think a line Berlin-Dresden is ideal for a while, when those countries become more favourable to West they can improve its connection with West countries.
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