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Old September 15th, 2016, 09:22 AM   #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Have to quickly note here that with runways costing $1,000,000 per foot, airplanes rather DO require expensive infrastructure.

Of course, and not to mention also the cost difference of a single vehicle capable to carry the same amount of passengers: factor 10:1.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 10:53 AM   #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
New ICE4 presented:
...
Reduction of maximum speed to 250km/h !!!
...
More precisely: 249 km/h to avoid having to comply with regulations for trains 250 km/h or more. 85 trains ICE4 K3s S-412 6 M 6 T 9.900 kW 346 m 670 t 830 seats scheduled for 2017.

And in the second "series" will only be 230 km/h. 45 trains ICE4 K1n S-412 3 M 4 T 4.950 kW 200 m 455 t 456 seats scheduled for 2020

412 series they replace the Inter City trains.

The next series (59 trains 6M 6 T and 80 trains 3 M 4 T) replaces the ICE 1 and 2.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 12:00 PM   #823
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Sorry, that's not entirely true (any more). The now presented ICE 4 has a top speed of 250 km/h and complies with TSI class 1. The specification was changed a few years ago (originally it was 249 km/h and TSI class 2).

The first trains will start scheduled operation by 12/2017 on Hamburg-Hannover-Munich (probably) with 7 train sets. From this autumn two train sets will already be used in regular operation on the same line to test how passengers react to the train.

Indeed, 130 trains sets are ordered (85 of the now presented train with 12 cars and 45 of a 230 km/h version with 7 cars). However, they will begin replacing the ICE 1 and only indirectly old IC train sets because the ICE 1 are in a worse state than expected.

ICE 4 is expected to operate on line 25 (Hamburg-Hannover-Munich) first replacing ICE 1 that will then operate on line 28 ((Hamburg-)Berlin-Munich) until more ICE 4 are available that replace the ICE 1 again. The ICE-T that are set free from line 28 will then operate on line 30 (Hamburg-Bremen-Köln-Frankfurt) replacing old IC train sets.

This is, however, not entirely fixed yet, but it would make sense.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 02:20 PM   #824
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Anyway the new line Nürberg-Erfurt is fitted for 300km/h. So DB is able to buy trains for 300km/h if it thinks is suitable.
Let's see what DB will order when ICE3 needs to be replaced.

What's the mess with ICE1? They've been refurbished just a few years ago, they shall last for another 5-10 years, according to plans.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 05:31 PM   #825
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Since the ICE 1 has a top speed of 250 kph for the most part, this won't be a downgrade.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 07:01 PM   #826
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ICE1 has a top-speed of 280km/h, but the lines it uses are allow max.250km/h. The speed difference can be used to turn down delays if needed.
Maybe the new train has instead a better acceleration, so it will also be able to keep the same travel time without effort.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 07:00 PM   #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Have to quickly note here that with runways costing $1,000,000 per foot, airplanes rather DO require expensive infrastructure.
really?

Expensive is a relative term but a quick google found this for Dublins new runway.

Quote:
It’s been conjectured that the new runway could cost up to €250m to build.

I wonder what sort of aircraft are they going to land on a 278.951 foot runway? (at todays exchange rate of 1 EUR = 1.11581 USD.)

The state of Florida would seem to think otherwise.

Anyway, even if sombody does spend a Million dollars per foot, how much would several hundred kms of hermatically sealed cross country piping cost to build and maintain?

Last edited by suasion; September 16th, 2016 at 10:59 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 09:11 PM   #828
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Does anyone know when DB Fernverkehr plan to stop using Class 101s in favour of units?

Once these locos are withdrawn, will they end up with DB Cargo or another company? Somehow I don't think Cargo will desperately want them as they currently receiving their new TRAXX AC3s.
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Old September 17th, 2016, 12:35 AM   #829
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Quote:
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really?

Expensive is a relative term but a quick google found this for Dublins new runway.




I wonder what sort of aircraft are they going to land on a 278.951 foot runway? (at todays exchange rate of 1 EUR = 1.11581 USD.)

The state of Florida would seem to think otherwise.
Double checking the figure, it seems to have included the cost of terminals and taxiways for a typical runway/airport expansion.

Quote:
Anyway, even if sombody does spend a Million dollars per foot, how much would several hundred kms of hermatically sealed cross country piping cost to build and maintain?
Which is why no sensible person, especially not me, actually advocates for that Hyperloop silliness.
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Old September 17th, 2016, 08:12 PM   #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Which is why no sensible person, especially not me, actually advocates for that Hyperloop silliness.

Capacity per hour alone is enough for any sensible person to not give a second thought to the hyperloop.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 01:02 AM   #831
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A quick question, I've seen that DB is starting to replace it's IC services with Bombardier TWINDEXX vario Double-Deck push-pull services, but what exactly is the difference between them and a Regional Express Double-Decker?
Are there any differences apart from the distance each one travels? I mean, the current IC trains actually have a comfort difference from First class to Standard class unlike the Regional trains (I couldn't find a reliable shot of DB new IC2 first class) and a bordrestraurant/bordbistro, which as far as I know the Twindexx doesn't.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #832
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In the 2nd class a knee room of 820 mm is provided in the 1st class of 910 mm. IC Café team employee provide travelers cold and hot drinks, snacks and baked goods in a trolley.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 03:43 PM   #833
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i cannot understand why haven't they continued with upgrading ICE3 / Velaro's. this ICE4 thing is just ugly. looks more like suburban train rather than HS IC.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 03:56 PM   #834
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Old September 19th, 2016, 12:53 AM   #835
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Sorry if I quote from almost a year ago...

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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
It seems though they are making them narrower with every generation: ICE1/2 3,02m, ICE3 2,95m and ICE4 2,85m.
Interesting.Could it be that the 2.85m was chosen to maximize international compatibility?
I'm Italian, don't remember for sure what's the clearance for the Italian railway infrastructure, but I seem to remember that ~ 3 meters is already over the limit. Will DB maybe use the ICE4 for the Brenner axis (to Verona/Venice/Milan/Rome)?
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Old September 19th, 2016, 02:44 AM   #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
i cannot understand why haven't they continued with upgrading ICE3 / Velaro's. this ICE4 thing is just ugly. looks more like suburban train rather than HS IC.
German "high" speed rail network is actually more like a large country spanning commuter rail network with stops everywhere. Most people travel only a few stations (100-300km) instead of traveling between the end points of a particular line.
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Old September 19th, 2016, 10:15 AM   #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touya View Post
Interesting.Could it be that the 2.85m was chosen to maximize international compatibility?
I'm Italian, don't remember for sure what's the clearance for the Italian railway infrastructure, but I seem to remember that ~ 3 meters is already over the limit. Will DB maybe use the ICE4 for the Brenner axis (to Verona/Venice/Milan/Rome)?
The ICE 4 is exclusively planned for operation in Germany and Switzerland. AFAIK it will also be allowed to operate in Austria.

The reason for the smaller width is the increased length of the cars. So in order to fulfill the requirements for overhang in archs, the cars have to be smaller in width. See also this figure:


Source: www.software-dima.de

The ICE 1 and 2 are indeed wider and run with a special approval.
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Old September 19th, 2016, 04:27 PM   #838
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i cannot understand why haven't they continued with upgrading ICE3 / Velaro's. this ICE4 thing is just ugly. looks more like suburban train rather than HS IC.
But didn't they do that? As far as I know the Siemens EMU which won the tender to become the new Eurostar is a significantly upgraded Velaro. Conversely the ICE4 was, as far as I know, developed to replace the conventional German IC trains, which in terms of expected speed, etc puts them one notch below the ICE1 trains.
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Old September 21st, 2016, 08:10 PM   #839
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But didn't they do that? As far as I know the Siemens EMU which won the tender to become the new Eurostar is a significantly upgraded Velaro. Conversely the ICE4 was, as far as I know, developed to replace the conventional German IC trains, which in terms of expected speed, etc puts them one notch below the ICE1 trains.
i thought design upgrade of ICE3
i was quite happy when new Velaro (TCDD and Eurostar type) were shown, I though it would be ICE4, but i was wrong unfortunately.
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 01:28 AM   #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
German "high" speed rail network is actually more like a large country spanning commuter rail network with stops everywhere. Most people travel only a few stations (100-300km) instead of traveling between the end points of a particular line.
I keep reading this, but there is a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy on that: the lack of really fast links between major population centers make very long distance train travel not competitive with flying and prevents a recurrent business demand for fast rail travel from emerging.

If it were possible to travel between Frankfurt and Berlin in 2h, I'm sure there would be far more passengers in that route! Imagine Frankfurt-München in 2h as well...
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