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Old November 25th, 2016, 03:41 PM   #941
Baron Hirsch
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Yes. I had suggested discussing that a few weeks ago. Of all major hub cities, only Frankfurt and Köln have through trains that only stop at Frankfurt Flughafen or Frankfurt Süd and Köln-Deutz and not at the Hbf. This was started by DB more as an emergency measure to bypass these stations when they are overcrowded, but they must actually save a lot of time, as the airport is as you say more on a straight line Cologne to Mannheim, and as trains coming off the HSL northbound would have to slowly cross the Rhine, reverse and cross the Rhine again (they usually run Frankfurt-Düssseldorf and onwards.
The airport is probably to far from downtown for Frankfurters to use that station, but it probably caters more to people from Mainz and Wiesbaden. Deutz is acutally only a stone's throw from the Hbf, but feels very much like a nonplace, lots of grey concrete and long corridors, so is probably mostly unattractive because of that.
Both Frankfurters and Colognians probably just wait for the next train from an Hbf, rather than using these through stations, as they are frequent enough. However it is a concept that DB could develop further (bypass Hanover Hbf by Hanover Messe? München Hbf by München Ost? Hamburg Hbf by Harburg?), if it works, which might not be the case everywhere. Again, just so there are no misunderstandings, only if services from Hbf are frequent enough anyways, so nobody is forced to use these offbeat stations.
The other question is of course, as you rightly point out, not Siegburg or Stendal or Fulda, where everyone will agree that they need not have a stop every time a train passes, but rather mid-size cities with fairly large passenger turnover, such as Wolfsburg, Göttingen, Kassel, Würzburg. Here I would say: let the market decide; do passenger counts, way them against passengers on sprinters and then let people, as the Germans say, "vote with their feet": if the platforms remain empty and the sprinters full, see that as a mandate, if it's otherwise, then that is how it was meant to be.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 05:00 PM   #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbab View Post
hans280, in a lot of your contributions you endorse the concept of bypassing agglomerations to enable direct faster connections between big cities - just as France does it with Lyon in Paris-Marseille whereas you criticise the german "tram-like"-concept.

I agree with you that Germany should invest far more money in its rail infrastructure and that "we" (... yes I am German living in a smaller city between Frankfurt and Mannheim) need more high speed rail sections.

But I seriously doubt the usefulness of direct connections of let´s say Hamburg-Stuttgart or Cologne-Munich bypassing areas like Frankfurt. The current rail infrastructure is already overcrowded and that problem -even political commitment provided - will not be solved for the short or medium-term. You may consider your proposal "desirable", but unfortunately for a longer period of time it stays quite unrealistic as the number of trains per hour on a lot of sections is simply limited. And this fact given: having to choose between air-travel-concept and tram-concept (automatically together with shorter feeder services) I am absolutely convinced that the latter will generate far more passengers.

But I would like to point to something else. In another thread (right now i don´t find it, sorry) there was the discussion about investments in infrastructure in rural versus urban areas. You proposed investing in speeding up the infrastructure between big urban areas and mentioned that sooner or later people will move out of rural areas into the big cities anyway.

Yes indeed, we have this tendency here in Germany. People move away from the countryside, but not just into the big cities but also to the medium-sized-ones (besides a general move roughly from north and east to south and west, but with a lot of exceptions). The reasons for it: employment and - a lack of good infrastructure (traffic, shopping, medical services etc)

The big question is: is this really desirable? Should politics just accept what seems in your eyes inevitable anyway or should it at least try to slowdown this process?

My opinion is clear. And it has to do with politics. Look at the results of elections in the USA, look at the Brexit or polls in many european countries: the tendency to vote for populist or radical parties.... it´s no more just a matter between rich and poor, having higher or simple education... but very often between urban and rural conditioning.

Concentrating on big urban areas and thereby neglecting not just the countryside but also these many cities of 50000 - 100000 inhabitants which are so peculiar in Germany will pay off its political prize.

And, getting back to the german railway net, IMHO following your focus would go into the wrong direction. The tram-concept is okay for Germany. I don´t mind to stop in Kassel and Göttingen when going to Hamburg. What we do need is speeding up entries and exits of the cities and yes - still speeding up some sections in between.
This is possibly the best written argument I have read on this forum.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #943
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some of the BBT and brenner axis - north connection Austria/Germany:
http://brennernordzulauf.eu/sites/de...legungen_0.pdf

the border region, the medium green option is the realistic one, tunnel Kufstein south - Oberaudorf north (to the orange option south end), the others are from human and nature and cost calculations non realistic

total area, the mentioned green, followed from the orange one (paralell to motorway A93) and for Rosenheim bypass is the direct line of the blue ones the most likely option (following the road bypass B15 west tangent)

(purple ones are austrian dreams but non realistic, yellow makes no sence in general to bring impact to non impact regions and expensiver than the blue ones)

direct line most realistic, would be perfect for high speed because after building that you can drive Munich - Innsbruck - Italy highspeed
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Old December 4th, 2016, 01:42 PM   #944
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Hoping that someone will come to my aid and help clarify some (many) questions prompted by a recent trip around Germany and the presentation of the ICE4.

My understanding was that the ICE4 was intended to replace the ICEs on both the 250 km/h lines and on some of the IC routes - in effect enabling more services/routes to be branded as ICE.
I thought that was the justification for the 250 km/h top speed confirmation?

What’s confusing me are the reports that the second route to receive the ICE4s will be route 28 (Hamburg – Berlin – Halle/Leipizig – Nurnberg – Munchen)?
Isn’t the Erfurt – Nurnberg 300km/h line coming into service at the end of next year, which with the already open Halle/Leipzig – Erfurt line, will enhance route 28 with the longest 300 km/h line in Germany?
So after 20 years of planning and €5 billion of expenditure, most (all?) of the ICEs using the new Erfurt – Nurnberg line will be 50km/h per hour short of the top speed that the line was designed for?

Presumably ICE3s can’t be cascaded on to route 28 because they’re the only trains capable of using the Koln – Frankfurt line, so when the line is opened ICE-Ts will initially use it, as they’re currently the dominant motive power on route 28?
When the ICE4s get introduced to route 28, they will then be capable of going 20 km/h faster than the ICE-Ts, thereby still allowing a journey time reduction when the ICE4s take over, so presumably this will be spun as new line + new trains = faster journeys?

With the ICE-Ts presumably remaining on route 50 (Dresden – Leipzig – Erfurt – Frankfurt – Weisbaden) does that mean there won’t be any 300 km/h running on the Halle/Leipizig – Erfurt section either, or are ICE3s providing the new(ish) Berlin – Leipzig – Erfurt – Frankfurt service (and if they are where did they come from)?

I’d assumed that as the opening of the Halle/Leipizig – Erfurt line enables the Berlin – Frankfurt service via Halle to be faster than routes 11 and 12 via Kassel, that one of these would be switched to run via Halle or Leipzig, but there doesn’t seem to be any plans for this?

Yet more questions were prompted by a recent rail pass trip and to/from Germany when time after time a different ICE to what I’d expected was used.

It was an ICE3 on the Frankfurt – Paris journey and I’d been hoping to have my first experience of an ICE Velaro D (407), so am wondering what’s happened to those?
In Frankfurt I noticed that that TGVs are still being used on the Frankfurt – Marseille service and there was an ICE3 on the Amsterdam – Frankfurt.
So are the 407s going to enable the doubling of the Brussels – Frankfurt service on the new timetable?

And what’s the fate of the ICE-TDs now that they’re coming off the Hamburg –Copenhagen route, (wasn’t expecting to be on a Danish IC!) are they going to enable the planned enhancements to the Munchen – Zurich that are seemingly planned for next year?

Also I’d expected a combination of ICE2s on a Hannover – Munchen trip*, as it was one of those services when separate parts of the train come from Hamburg and Bremen, but it was an ICE-T instead and from what I could glean there weren’t any ICE2s being used on that route that day.
Is that the policy for the route now? If so that’s a surprise, as I was impressed by the ICE2 I took between Berlin and Hannover, presumed that they’ve had new interiors.

*And finally slightly off topic, I was surprised by the overcrowding on this train, dozens of people standing in 1st and 2nd class.
Appreciate that reservations are optional, but as tickets are train specific, I’d assumed that there would be some sort of limit as to how many tickets would be sold per service.
Doubt that many of the standing passengers were holders of a 1st class rail pass mistakenly assuming that reservations would never be necessary in 1st class.

Still a great trip overall, despite all of the drivers leaving the glass frosted between their cabs and the lounge seats.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 03:28 PM   #945
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GERMANY | High Speed Rail

There was a change of plans regarding which trains the then ICX (now ICE4) would replace. First the ICX would replace the old IC stock for which the 7 car trains where on order. Because of the bad condition of the ICE1 trains this changed. The ICE4 (in a new 12 car version) will replace the ICE1 starting on the Hamburg to Munich route via Nuremberg and Ingolstadt. The second line will be indeed the ICE line 28 from 2019 on. There will be some Sprinter services with ICE3 on the route between (Hamburg) Berlin and Munich via Erfurt being capable of running the full 300 km/h. The ICE-T trains running now between Hamburg, Berlin and Munich will replace the IC trains between Hamburg and Frankfurt via Cologne.

The ICE3 trains on the Frankfurt to Paris route will be used on the Brussels to Frankfurt route running 5 times daily instead of 3 from 11 December on.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper Or Lower Deck View Post
*And finally slightly off topic, I was surprised by the overcrowding on this train, dozens of people standing in 1st and 2nd class.
Appreciate that reservations are optional, but as tickets are train specific, I’d assumed that there would be some sort of limit as to how many tickets would be sold per service.
Most train tickets sold in Germany are not train specific. DB thus doesn't know in advance how many people will take a train or can limit sales for particular trains...
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Old December 5th, 2016, 08:57 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper Or Lower Deck View Post
Hoping that someone will come to my aid and help clarify some (many) questions prompted by a recent trip around Germany and the presentation of the ICE4.

My understanding was that the ICE4 was intended to replace the ICEs on both the 250 km/h lines and on some of the IC routes - in effect enabling more services/routes to be branded as ICE.
I thought that was the justification for the 250 km/h top speed confirmation?

What’s confusing me are the reports that the second route to receive the ICE4s will be route 28 (Hamburg – Berlin – Halle/Leipizig – Nurnberg – Munchen)?
Isn’t the Erfurt – Nurnberg 300km/h line coming into service at the end of next year, which with the already open Halle/Leipzig – Erfurt line, will enhance route 28 with the longest 300 km/h line in Germany?
So after 20 years of planning and €5 billion of expenditure, most (all?) of the ICEs using the new Erfurt – Nurnberg line will be 50km/h per hour short of the top speed that the line was designed for?
Appropriate rolling stock is no priority anymore in the DB tower. The management decided to purchase a one size fits all trainsets instead. But this trainset needed to be cheap above all. Hence the reduced top speed. One can only hope that the ICE4 will turn out to be reliable at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper Or Lower Deck View Post
Presumably ICE3s can’t be cascaded on to route 28 because they’re the only trains capable of using the Koln – Frankfurt line, so when the line is opened ICE-Ts will initially use it, as they’re currently the dominant motive power on route 28?
When the ICE4s get introduced to route 28, they will then be capable of going 20 km/h faster than the ICE-Ts, thereby still allowing a journey time reduction when the ICE4s take over, so presumably this will be spun as new line + new trains = faster journeys?
It is intended to move over a handful of trainsets (class 403 or class 407) from Köln-Frankfurt to the Berlin-München line to run the fast services at top speeds of 300 km/h. These services will run every two hours, calling in Halle, Erfurt and Nürnberg only.
The services in the intermediate hours will be performed by ICE-T and later by ICE4 sets indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper Or Lower Deck View Post
With the ICE-Ts presumably remaining on route 50 (Dresden – Leipzig – Erfurt – Frankfurt – Weisbaden) does that mean there won’t be any 300 km/h running on the Halle/Leipizig – Erfurt section either, or are ICE3s providing the new(ish) Berlin – Leipzig – Erfurt – Frankfurt service (and if they are where did they come from)?

I’d assumed that as the opening of the Halle/Leipizig – Erfurt line enables the Berlin – Frankfurt service via Halle to be faster than routes 11 and 12 via Kassel, that one of these would be switched to run via Halle or Leipzig, but there doesn’t seem to be any plans for this?
It does mean exactly this. Berlin to Frankfurt/M as well as Dresden to Frankfurt/M services will be run by class 411 and class 412 trainsets. So no top speeds of 300 km/h.
The Berlin-Frankfurt/M route via Erfurt will be indeed a couple of minutes faster than that via Braunschweig. To make use of this circumstance fast services via Erfurt will be introduced additional to the established services on the route via Braunschweig.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 07:53 PM   #948
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Not correct. Current plans are these:

line 28 (Berlin - Munich) will be run by ICE-T, ICE-1 and/or ICE4
new line 8 (Berlin - Halle - Erfurt - Nuremberg - Munich, sprinter line only stopping there) will run a few times daily, run by ICE-3
line 11 (Berlin - Frankfurt - Stuttgart - Munich) will be changed from the route via Braunschweig to the route via Leipzig - Erfurt, run by ICE1/ICE4
new line 16 (Berlin - Braunschweig - Frankfurt - Wiesbaden) to still have hourly trains Berlin - Frankfurt via Braunschweig (together with line 12 Berlin - Frankfurt - Basel - Interlaken), run by ICE1/4
line 15 (Berlin - Halle - Erfurt - Frankfurt, sprinter line only stopping there), already introduced after opening of Halle-Erfurt, is running every 4 hours with ICE-3 (mostly) and ICE-T (only the one or two daily trains starting in Binz)
line 50 (Dresden - Leipzig - Erfurt - Frankfurt) will be reduced to 2hourly, run by ICE-T

So for the foreseeable future it's Berlin - Frankfurt/Munich sprinter trains of lines 8 and 15 that will run at 300kph on the new HSL, nothing else

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Old December 9th, 2016, 04:55 PM   #949
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There is no ICE-3 in service between Berlin and Frankfurt/M and I doubt there ever will be one. There are only 70 km of high-speed line permitting speeds of up to 300 km/h on this route. The resulting time gains are too little to justify retreating these trainsets from the Köln-Frankfurt/M line.
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Old December 10th, 2016, 12:10 PM   #950
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Quote:
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Appropriate rolling stock is no priority anymore in the DB tower. The management decided to purchase a one size fits all trainsets instead. But this trainset needed to be cheap above all. Hence the reduced top speed. One can only hope that the ICE4 will turn out to be reliable at least.
The priority is of course to make money. You can of course buy more expensive trains, but are the customers prepared to pay more to ride on them? That is the kind of concerns the people in the DB tower...

And the IC4 platform is modular. They will be built to TSI Class 1 standards, so I assume that a 300 kph train set could eventually be build by adding more power cars. There is something to say for standardising...
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Old December 10th, 2016, 11:14 PM   #951
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And the IC4 platform is modular. They will be built to TSI Class 1 standards, so I assume that a 300 kph train set could eventually be build by adding more power cars. There is something to say for standardising...
If I recall correctly there will also be new ICE-trainsets able to run 300 km/h in the forseeable future. ICE4 was designed to substitute old ICE1 and IC-trainsets in routes only 250 km/h running. That was a correct decision imho.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 05:06 PM   #952
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Another milestone for Stuttgart 21 project:

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Old March 23rd, 2017, 10:42 PM   #953
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Nürnberg - München BR 401

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Old June 18th, 2017, 01:06 AM   #954
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New High Speed Speed Railweay Line Erfurt - Nürnburg



Complete footage (October 2016) from Erfurt to Unterleiterbach with Vmax 300 km/h
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Old June 19th, 2017, 01:05 PM   #955
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New HSR Erfurt - Nürnburg

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Old June 28th, 2017, 10:41 AM   #956
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At what maximum speed can be crossed an ICE with a freight train? At 200 km/h?

Thanks in advance.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 03:03 AM   #957
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At what maximum speed can be crossed an ICE with a freight train? At 200 km/h?

Thanks in advance.
There is no speed limit as such. There is the restriction that freight trains and high speed train mustn't cross in tunnels, though. Which means nothing less than a ban of freight trains during day time.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 12:17 AM   #958
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Filstal bridge Stuttgart 21 project
length: 485/472m, new Wendlingen-Ulm line










http://www.bahnprojekt-stuttgart-ulm...tellenbereich/
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Old December 7th, 2017, 01:41 PM   #959
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High-speed railway line Berlin-Praha

Germany just upgraded the importance of the high speed railway link from Berlin to Praha via a tunnel between Dresden and Ústí nad Labem. The railway line is now considered of "urgent need" which means that the planning stage will take off. The german part of the railway line will now be built within the next 15-20 years.

I know that the Czech side was always pressing for that - now it becomes reality. It means that the Czech Republic can start the process of upgrading the railways between Ústí and Praha and start to plan details of the railway link between Ústí and Germany.

(german only) »The federal government approves the construction of a railway tunnel in Saxony«

A first "memorandum of understanding" was signed on 26. August 2017.

(german only) Tillich welcomes the memorandum of understanding regarding the new railway line Dresden - Praha

Total length of the new railway link between Dresden and Ústí: 43 km around 22 km each in Germany and in the Czech Republic. the tunnel through the mountains will be 26 km long. On the german side, the design speed is considered to be 200/230 km/h (mixed traffic with cargo and persons) which necessarily includes most of the Czech part north of Ústí.

In 2015, the german state of Saxony published a summary paper outlining a few things to happen between Dresden and Ústí nad Labem:

(german/english) New railway line Dresden - Praha outside the Elbe / Labe valley

German project website:

(english/german/czech): http://nbs.sachsen.de/
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Old December 8th, 2017, 06:19 PM   #960
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The latest addition to the network in full length before it goes into service on Sunday: Bamberg to Erfurt in 43 minutes.



And another one in the counter direction:

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