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Old April 6th, 2009, 11:38 PM   #141
flierfy
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Nimbyism is certainly a major obstacle for many project. In the case of this rail line, however, it was the lack of fund and more so the lack of political commitment that delayed construction works.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 09:24 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
As for France, I think you'll find that recent large projects (one example being the LGV-Est from Paris to the Voges) were rolled out in about 1/3 of that time. But, I suspect that the confusion stems from how much of the political preparations we count as part of the project time? It's quite correct that politicians in most other countries (or DEMOCRATIC countries: the political planning is quite swift in China...) also bicker forever. It can take literally decades to decide on a project in France as well.
France's democracy is a much more centralized one than Germany's. In Germany there are simply much more layers involved with each decision. Doesn't necessarily make one system better/worse than the other, but when you're talking about infrastructure, centralization speeds up decisions: the smaller the number of parties that are involved in a decision, the faster that decision will be taken.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 11:23 AM   #143
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Yes, Koen, the fact that one party normally has a majority in France's parliament is half of it. The other half is the top-down approvals procedure. The Declaration d'Utilité Publique which is necessary for a project to start, land to be expropriated, contracts to be signed, is granted by the Conseil d'Etat - the highest judicial authority in the country. I should add that the CdE does not pull its decision out of a top hat: years of consultation at the local level (organised by the regional Prefects) preceed it and citizens are free to challenge every step of these before Administrative Tribunals. (Equivalent to the Judicial Review in the US system.)

BUT... once the CdE has declared that a given project is definitely in the public interest then that's the last word. To whom would you appeal? The supreme court has already spoken.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Nimbyism is certainly a major obstacle for many project. In the case of this rail line, however, it was the lack of fund and more so the lack of political commitment that delayed construction works.
Right, the problem of that line is a lack of funding. The line Munich–Berlin isn't seen as important as the line Frankfurt–Cologne for example.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #145
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I'm feeling nasty today, so...

... I couldn't help myself. Please take a look at this link to the home page of Reseau de Fer Francais: http://www.lgvsudeuropeatlantique.org/default.asp. It describes the plans that are already hatched for a new LGV, ultimately connecting Paris with Bordeaux in 2h05. Apparently it should stand ready 10 years from now - but I personally attach a large question mark to this forecast: the project is modulised in to a phase 1 (Bordeaux-Angouleme) and a phase 2 (Angouleme-Tours), and there's a very real chance that the other western LGV in the pipeworks (Le Mans-Rennes) gets wedged in between the two phases. What, you may well ask, does this have to do with Nuremberg-Erfurt? Well...

...the distance Berlin-Munich is identically the same as the distance Paris-Bordeaux.

Last edited by hans280; April 8th, 2009 at 04:55 PM.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #146
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Paris Bordeaux is 3h09m...today

compare that to Berlin München
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Old April 8th, 2009, 04:57 PM   #147
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Actually, Gramercy, the fastest direct trains (two per day, I think) need 3h01m to do Paris-Bordeaux. In France, this is commonly considered as being too slow. That said...

...the RFF site I just linked is mixing pears and apples: the speak of 300 km/h and of a target travel time of 2h05m in one the same breath. However, they'll only ever get down to 2h05m once they've introduced trains with a Vmax of 350 km/h.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 05:04 PM   #148
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yea, but they will actually do that not just talk about it....

actually, i think they will build 360kph just like the lgv est is 360kph ready
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Old April 30th, 2009, 04:32 AM   #149
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Renfe-AVE-ICE 3-sketched by me

Happy May day, I just draw one Renfe-AVE-ICE 3.

Last edited by mysunshine; April 30th, 2009 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Happy May day
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Old April 30th, 2009, 11:06 AM   #150
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great
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Old May 1st, 2009, 12:46 AM   #151
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It looks really good.
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Old July 26th, 2009, 03:15 PM   #152
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Dauers Spezial

I need to know how I can get the minimum price by Dauer Spezial? Every time when I try to get it on egc. Berlin - Munich - Berlin at least 3 days before as it says in the conditions I get only Dauer Spezial for first class. It shows me that my return or onward trip arent available and then I try to find different return or onward trip and all of them cannot make Dauer Spezial.
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Old July 27th, 2009, 02:41 PM   #153
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Try to book two single journey's
the Outbound travel first , some later the Inbound travel

Bookings can be made, not 3 months in advance, but 90 days
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Old July 29th, 2009, 11:58 PM   #154
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Well, Dauer Spezial is a special offer to fill empty trains. DB, however, seem to have cut down services between Berlin and München by 50%. (edit: reason are works on the rail line between Bamberg and Nürnberg which will last from Aug 1 to Sept 14) The reduced capacities mean less or no need to promote spare seats as there probably won't be any.

So the €58 offers are empty promises. There are probably no such tickets for the next few weeks. The twats of DB won't tell you that. They leave you searching for phantom tickets. The cheapest return ticket I could find at a random search were €113.
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Last edited by flierfy; July 30th, 2009 at 12:07 AM. Reason: added information
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Old November 18th, 2010, 03:02 PM   #155
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GERMANY | High Speed Rail

What are the REAL High Speed Rail Link in Germany?

Why don't they build a direct connection between Berlin and Munich?

Except Stuttgart S 21, what are the other HSR (V250 +) in Germany?

What about Maglev between Berlin and Munich? There are 550 km...it would be perfect...isn't it?
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Old November 18th, 2010, 03:10 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post

What about Maglev between Berlin and Munich? There are 550 km...it would be perfect...isn't it?
Yeah, maybe you are willing to invest in it?
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Old November 18th, 2010, 03:20 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
What about Maglev between Berlin and Munich? There are 550 km...it would be perfect...isn't it?
Why not from Munich to Hamburg? Even better!

And from Hamburg it should continue on a floating track to London!
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Old November 18th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #158
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Quote:
Why don't they build a direct connection between Berlin and Munich?
It's partly under construction (look there, it's the grey line).

Quote:
Except Stuttgart S 21, what are the other HSR (V250 +) in Germany?
Look this page.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 03:39 PM   #159
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What about the line between Mannheim and Basel? Last year most of the work (fourth track on the existing line) had been done between Mannheim and Baden Baden. What's the current situation?
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Old November 18th, 2010, 03:58 PM   #160
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Some parts of this line have been built or are under cosntruction, but others are delayed because of NIMBYsm.
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