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Old June 23rd, 2011, 08:38 AM   #2501
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Originally Posted by NCT View Post
That's the worst kind of sexist attitude. Why should the gender of train/air crew affect the standard of service?! Why should people's jobs and careers be dictated by their gender?
I actually prefer a mix of women and men to work as service. Like passenger flights, it is good to see both men and women serving. Their gender has got nothing to do with their ability to work. Too much stereotyping I think is the problem. Perverts are another problem as well. Being hetrosexual/homosexual etc shouldn't be an issue what you are after is a professional service on flights and rides. Perverts on the other hand, have this problem since they have more than just professional service on their minds. Well groomed men and women make the environment so much more professional than just single gender environments.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:12 AM   #2502
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http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_12760255.htm

July 1st will be the official opening date.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 11:15 AM   #2503
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Track laying on Hangzhou-Ningbo(Hangyong) PDL scheduled to start next month



source

total length 152km
top speed 300km/h(350km/h)

Hangyong PDL has 7 stations in three cities (Hangzhou, Shaoxin and Ningbo) in Zhejiang Province.

route


source: hn3c.gov.cn
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 12:08 PM   #2504
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I really do question the necessity of the smaller stations on HSLs. The experience of Shanghai-Nanjing and Shanghai-Hangzhou PDL suggests these stations are poorly connected, massively underused with but a handful of trains a day, and it'd be much better to run a Metro-style all-stops service on the classic lines with say 3 trains an hour.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 03:38 PM   #2505
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I really do question the necessity of the smaller stations on HSLs. The experience of Shanghai-Nanjing and Shanghai-Hangzhou PDL suggests these stations are poorly connected, massively underused with but a handful of trains a day, and it'd be much better to run a Metro-style all-stops service on the classic lines with say 3 trains an hour.
the conventional line is already extremely busy with long distance passenger trains and freight trains, there is no capacity for it to run the intercity commuter trains.

The current ICLs are awkward because one phase of development was skipped. on one hand, they are designed to serve many towns because the demand is there, on the other hand, the newly built ICLs are in fact operated as intercity EXPRESS lines and then do not serve the small stations very well. There should have been slower intercity lines in the first place. Passenger dedicated commuting lines should have been built in the late 80's or 90's, top speed 100 km/h would be sufficient back then. but there was little progress(mostly due to lack of funding) in building new railways at that time, let alone such commuting lines.

At this point I think the "Metro-style"/intercity commuter trains should be running on the Shanghai-Nanjing ICL due to following reasons:
  • after the operation of Shanghai-Nanjing section on Beijing-Shanghai HSR starts, it could serve as an express line, so Shanghai-Nanjing ICL do not have to run direct non-stop trains.
  • Shanghai-Nanjing ICL has many stations(21 stations in current operation plus 10 reserved stations, not including Shanghai Railway Station) on the line. Unlike Beijing-Tianjin ICL, its station density is quite high, which means it was planned to serve as an intercity commuter line. the small stations are indeed necessary in this case.
  • Such service is needed to meet the huge commuting demand between Shanghai and Nanjing. There are six cities on the 300km of Shanghai-Nanjing line, with more than 55 million residents (not including those who live less than 6 months per year) in the area, and all six cities have very strong economies. Even at this stage with many small stations being ignored, ridership on Shanghai-Nanjing ICL passed 40 million mark within the first 8 months of operation.
  • more flexible schedules are possible and should be made. there could be even trains running from Nanjing to Wuxi and trains from Shanghai to Suzhou, as these two sections cover most popular commuting patterns along the line.
If Shanghai-Nanjing ICL truly becomes a commuter line, I think top speed 250km/h or even 200km/h is enough for its operation, and that CRH6 could be used instead of CRH2 or CRH3. If the demand keeps growing, even more tracks and lines can be built along this line in the future.

Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR is a different story though. It's not designed as an ICL, instead it belongs to a national high speed corridor, similar to the Shanghai-Nanjing section on Beijing-Shanghai HSR.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 04:01 PM   #2506
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Capacity on classic lines IS being released though, as more and more K/T/Z trains are being replaced by D/G trains, so surely one can find 3 paths an hour for commuter services?

The PDLs are not really designed for hugh speed-differentiations, and in the case of the Shanghai - Nanjing PDL, one cannot neglect the big inter-city high-speed demand between the 6 major cities (the Beijing - Shanghai line is useless for Suzhou, Changzhou etc.).

The current infrastructure is capable of running a 3-tier service between Shanghai and Nanjing, with perhaps minor alterations:

Shanghai - Nanjing direct using Beijing - Shanghai line;
Shanghai - Kunshan - Suzhou - Wuxi - Changzhou - Zhenjiang - Nanjing using the PDL;
All stops Shanghai - Suzhou; Suzhou - Changzhou; Changzhou - Nanjing using the classic line mixed in with freight.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 08:33 PM   #2507
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This post is for NCT and others, who have tirelessly argued about the locations of HSR stations in various Chinese cities.

The link below is a report on how the city of Nanjing had fought the MOR for twenty years to locate the new Nanjing South Station to the south of current city center rather the north as preference by MOR originally, and had succeeded in doing so. The biggest reason for Nanjing's preference is that Nanjing wanted to leverage the new HSR station to expand the city. In addition, the report also disclose the different rail station design concepts between the city of Nanjing and MOR. It's a very good report.

Here is the link: http://bbs.ourail.com/thread-118480-1-1.html

Here is a CCTV report on Nanjing South Station: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20110622/108795.shtml

For non-Chinese speakers, I apologize for the Chinese links. Chinese-speaking posters, please summarize at least of the report for the benefits of others if you can. Thanks.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 08:44 PM   #2508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highway35 View Post
This post is for NCT and others, who have tirelessly argued about the locations of HSR stations in various Chinese cities.

The link below is a report on how the city of Nanjing had fought the MOR for twenty years to locate the new Nanjing South Station to the south of current city center rather the north as preference by MOR originally, and had succeeded in doing so. The biggest reason for Nanjing's preference is that Nanjing wanted to leverage the new HSR station to expand the city. In addition, the report also disclose the different rail station design concepts between the city of Nanjing and MOR. It's a very good report.

Here is the link: http://bbs.ourail.com/thread-118480-1-1.html

Here is a CCTV report on Nanjing South Station: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20110622/108795.shtml

For non-Chinese speakers, I apologize for the Chinese links. Chinese-speaking posters, please summarize at least of the report for the benefits of others if you can. Thanks.
Eek, ourail discussions are invisible to non-members, and registrations are impossible without an invitation code ... as for the CCTV report, well it talks about nothing but aesthetics and construction difficulties which clearly appeal to the lowest denominator of televion audiences.

Were the original intention of the MOR to expand the original Nanjing Station, or to build a new one further north than that?
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 09:17 PM   #2509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Eek, ourail discussions are invisible to non-members, and registrations are impossible without an invitation code ... as for the CCTV report, well it talks about nothing but aesthetics and construction difficulties which clearly appeal to the lowest denominator of televion audiences.

Were the original intention of the MOR to expand the original Nanjing Station, or to build a new one further north than that?
Try this link from ditiezu.com:

http://www.ditiezu.com/thread-169174-1-1.html

Or this link from the newspaper:

http://kb.dsqq.cn/html/2011-06/23/node_46.htm

There are a lot of good comments in ourail.com under the thread - it's a shame they're not open to non-members.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:37 PM   #2510
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The first train G1 will depart from Beijing South at 15:00 June 30:
* Beijing South: 15:00
* Langfang: 15:21 - 15:23
* Tianjin South: 15:41 - 15:43
* Jinan West: 16:46 - 16:48
* Nanjing South: 19:00 - 19:02
* Shanghai Hongqiao: 20:09

The first train G2 will depart from Shanghai Hongqiao at 15:00 June 30:
* Shanghai Hongqiao: 15:00
* Nanjing South: 16:07 - 16:09
* Jinan West: 18:21 - 18:23
* Tianjin South: 19:26 - 19:28
* Beijing South: 20:02

Ticket will be put on sale at 9:00am today.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 11:13 PM   #2511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Capacity on classic lines IS being released though, as more and more K/T/Z trains are being replaced by D/G trains, so surely one can find 3 paths an hour for commuter services?

The PDLs are not really designed for hugh speed-differentiations, and in the case of the Shanghai - Nanjing PDL, one cannot neglect the big inter-city high-speed demand between the 6 major cities (the Beijing - Shanghai line is useless for Suzhou, Changzhou etc.).

The current infrastructure is capable of running a 3-tier service between Shanghai and Nanjing, with perhaps minor alterations:

Shanghai - Nanjing direct using Beijing - Shanghai line;
Shanghai - Kunshan - Suzhou - Wuxi - Changzhou - Zhenjiang - Nanjing using the PDL;
All stops Shanghai - Suzhou; Suzhou - Changzhou; Changzhou - Nanjing using the classic line mixed in with freight.
I also think this should be the way it runs, ideally Huning PDL should be the best means of transportion for people live in smaller cities along the line. One of the problem is that this line also runs many long haul trains (Shanghai-Wuhan, Shanghai-Hefei, etc) so they have to find the perfect balance between speed and stops.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 11:51 PM   #2512
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Here is nice video on English that demonstrate the Hsr between Beijing and Shanghai:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_12760255.htm
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #2513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I also think this should be the way it runs, ideally Huning PDL should be the best means of transportion for people live in smaller cities along the line. One of the problem is that this line also runs many long haul trains (Shanghai-Wuhan, Shanghai-Hefei, etc) so they have to find the perfect balance between speed and stops.
In terms of speed, in the long run there should be no reason why it shouldn't be uniformly 300 (or 350 whatever they decide the optimal to be) for all non-commuter trains. Once that's established, which line a train runs on, Huning or Jinghu, should be solely dependent upon where it stops at. If it stops at all major cities, then it should be Huning; if it's Shanghai straight to Nanjing (South), it should be Jinghu.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:50 AM   #2514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Capacity on classic lines IS being released though, as more and more K/T/Z trains are being replaced by D/G trains, so surely one can find 3 paths an hour for commuter services?

The PDLs are not really designed for hugh speed-differentiations, and in the case of the Shanghai - Nanjing PDL, one cannot neglect the big inter-city high-speed demand between the 6 major cities (the Beijing - Shanghai line is useless for Suzhou, Changzhou etc.).

The current infrastructure is capable of running a 3-tier service between Shanghai and Nanjing, with perhaps minor alterations:

Shanghai - Nanjing direct using Beijing - Shanghai line;
Shanghai - Kunshan - Suzhou - Wuxi - Changzhou - Zhenjiang - Nanjing using the PDL;
All stops Shanghai - Suzhou; Suzhou - Changzhou; Changzhou - Nanjing using the classic line mixed in with freight.
this is not gonna happen with freight trains sharing the same line.

the freight trains should be removed from this particular line to a separate freight line. there is no need for the freight trains to get in the city core, so the new freight line can be built in the outer circle of each city, and MoR can demolish those freight depots in downtown areas(which they can sell the plots for a lot of money or they can use for other development purpose).
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Old June 24th, 2011, 01:04 AM   #2515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highway35 View Post
This post is for NCT and others, who have tirelessly argued about the locations of HSR stations in various Chinese cities.

The link below is a report on how the city of Nanjing had fought the MOR for twenty years to locate the new Nanjing South Station to the south of current city center rather the north as preference by MOR originally, and had succeeded in doing so. The biggest reason for Nanjing's preference is that Nanjing wanted to leverage the new HSR station to expand the city. In addition, the report also disclose the different rail station design concepts between the city of Nanjing and MOR. It's a very good report.

Here is the link: http://bbs.ourail.com/thread-118480-1-1.html

Here is a CCTV report on Nanjing South Station: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20110622/108795.shtml

For non-Chinese speakers, I apologize for the Chinese links. Chinese-speaking posters, please summarize at least of the report for the benefits of others if you can. Thanks.
it is more like a propaganda article for Nanjing government. it is nothing new but to show us that this particular local government has different interests from MoR, but again which one doesn't? similar things happen everywhere. The route near Guilin on Guiyang-Guangzhou HSR also generated similar south vs north debate between Guilin Government and MoR for many years. The new high speed railway station in Shanghai was originally chosen to be in Qibao town, but it was changed to Hongqiao due to Shanghai's planning of a transportation hub. The addition/elimination of stations on new lines is always a battle between local governments and MoR.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 01:55 AM   #2516
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Quote:
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it is more like a propaganda article for Nanjing government. it is nothing new but to show us that this particular local government has different interests from MoR, but again which one doesn't? similar things happen everywhere. The route near Guilin on Guiyang-Guangzhou HSR also generated similar south vs north debate between Guilin Government and MoR for many years. The new high speed railway station in Shanghai was originally chosen to be in Qibao town, but it was changed to Hongqiao due to Shanghai's planning of a transportation hub. The addition/elimination of stations on new lines is always a battle between local governments and MoR.
Well, I think what's interesting about the report is that it documented in much detail the thought process of regional/local governments in planning & selecting HSR stations, which has been the topics of a lot of poists in this forum in the past.

Nanjing South Station provides a context and a case study for the debate. And, as you pointed out, this is typical in other cities in China.

I wouldn't call this report a propaganda - that would be too simple, and very naive. ;-)
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:10 AM   #2517
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I have successfully booked a business right-side window seat at 12306.cn for the first train G1 in coach number 3, ¥1750; I will go to get the paper ticket at the station soon.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:19 AM   #2518
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I have successfully booked a business right-side window seat at 12306.cn for the first train G1 in coach number 3, ¥1750; I will go to get the paper ticket at the station soon.
neat.

people are showing off their tickets on the forums already
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:35 AM   #2519
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I have successfully booked a business right-side window seat at 12306.cn for the first train G1 in coach number 3, ¥1750; I will go to get the paper ticket at the station soon.


Definetly share your pictures here...
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:38 AM   #2520
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the seats reminded me of a very comfortable bus i took in singapore to kuala lumpur and back last summer
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