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Old July 26th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #2861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
the government said it was to keep their technological secrets from the general populace.
And afther that another explaination came wich was even worse:

The ground is very muddy so the trains had to be smashed and buried to make the terrain more accessible to provide medical assistance.


In the mean time:

Quote:
Courtesy of China Digital Times:

Central Propaganda Department: In regard to the Wenzhou high-speed train crash, all media outlets are to promptly report information released from the Ministry of Railways. No journalists should conduct independent interviews. All subsidiaries including newspaper, magazines and websites are to be well controlled. Do not link reports with articles regarding the development of high-speed trains. Do not conduct reflective reports.



Additional directives for all central media: The latest directives on reporting the Wenzhou high-speed train crash: 1. Release death toll only according to figures from authorities. 2. Do not report on a frequent basis. 3. More touching stories are to reported instead, i.e. blood donation, free taxi services, etc. 4. Do not investigate the causes of the accident; use information released from authorities as standard. 5. Do not reflect or comment.



Reminder on reporting matters: All reports regarding the Wenzhou high-speed train accident are to be titled “7.23 Yong-Wen line major transportation accident.” Reporting of the accident is to use “ ‘in the face of great tragedy, there’s great love’” as the major theme. Do not question. Do not elaborate. Do not associate. No re-posting on micro-blogs will be allowed! Related service information may be provided during news reporting. Music is to be carefully selected!
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2011/07...d-train-crash/
Anyway those pics above are very great!
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Old July 26th, 2011, 06:48 PM   #2862
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China launches 2-month train safety campaign

Updated: 2011-07-26 11:02

BEIJING - China's rail minister has ordered a two-month safety check on railway operations and apologised for Saturday's deadly train crash that killed 39 people, a report on People.com.cn said on Tuesday.

Sheng Guangzu, Minister of Railways, said a range of railway officials were directed to work on front-line operations during the next two months and to learn from the accident, the report quoted a statement on the ministry's website.

He said the safety campaign will extend through the end of September and will focus on high-speed rail and passenger trains, such as implementing maintenance standards and reinforcing checks on power connections to pre-empt outages.

Special attention would also go to prevent accidents caused by flooding and inclement weather, the minister said.

Even before the investigation into the cause of the crash was complete, Beijing on Sunday sacked three middle-level railway officials.

The ministry is still investigating the cause of the accident. Previous reports have said the D301 bullet train rear-ended another express D3115 that lost power following a lightning strike, adding that the power failure knocked out an electronic safety system designed to alert conductors about stalled locomotives on the line.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #2863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
And afther that another explaination came wich was even worse:

The ground is very muddy so the trains had to be smashed and buried to make the terrain more accessible to provide medical assistance.


In the mean time:



Anyway those pics above are very great!
I, for one would not treat this "China Digital Times" as fair and unbiased reporting but everyone to his/her own.


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Old July 26th, 2011, 08:13 PM   #2864
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However this has been circulated far and wide among Chinese media. While the true source hasn't been identified and one should rightly take a pinch of salt, one can't help give it the benefit of doubt such is the nature of how information spreads in China.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 09:54 PM   #2865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
However this has been circulated far and wide among Chinese media. While the true source hasn't been identified and one should rightly take a pinch of salt, one can't help give it the benefit of doubt such is the nature of how information spreads in China.
Agreed partially! Benefit of the doubt with a very large grain of salt.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 10:06 PM   #2866
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I, for one would not treat this "Communist Party" as fair and unbiased reporting but everyone to his/her own.


Just another brick in the wall.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 10:57 PM   #2867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
And afther that another explaination came wich was even worse:

The ground is very muddy so the trains had to be smashed and buried to make the terrain more accessible to provide medical assistance.
I have never read anything indicating officials said burying part of the wreckage is to keep the technology secrets. In fact I believe the explanation that the digging and burying is to prepare ground to haul the carriages out. Only a small portion of the carriages were crushed, and all buried material were later dug out and hauled away for investigation.

The notion that MOR tries to bury the wreckage to hide evidence is retarded. It's obvious an accident has happened, and right under the eye of an entire nation because reporters are stationed at the scene all day long. Whatever caused the accident can't be hidden even if the entire train is vaporized because it happened higher up at the control center.

I think it's silly that a lot of people are focusing on this "burying wreckage" thing, and miss the more important task that is to find who the hell gave the order to run the trains blind and override CTCS and ATP.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 11:11 PM   #2868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I have never read anything indicating officials said burying part of the wreckage is to keep the technology secrets. In fact I believe the explanation that the digging and burying is to prepare ground to haul the carriages out. Only a small portion of the carriages were crushed, and all buried material were later dug out and hauled away for investigation.

The notion that MOR tries to bury the wreckage to hide evidence is retarded. It's obvious an accident has happened, and right under the eye of an entire nation because reporters are stationed at the scene all day long. Whatever caused the accident can't be hidden even if the entire train is vaporized because it happened higher up at the control center.

I think it's silly that a lot of people are focusing on this "burying wreckage" thing, and miss the more important task that is to find who the hell gave the order to run the trains blind and override CTCS and ATP.
Common sense would dictate that, as much possible, you should leave the accident scene as it is until investigations are concluded. Why were they so quick to clear the scene so much so they missed the 4-year-old girl who was fortunately found alive 20 hours after the accident? Why was the train head crushed when it clearly contained the most important control and communication equipment? Can anyone give one innocent explanation for the rapid destruction of the accident scene? Arse covering if you ask me.

Why is it that a lot of people are focussing on this wreckage? It is precisely the attitude behind the rescue and clean-up that caused the accident in the first place. Haste - to run the trains at all costs, and cover-up - of the embarrasing signalling failure under a bit of thunder.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #2869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Common sense would dictate that, as much possible, you should leave the accident scene as it is until investigations are concluded. Why were they so quick to clear the scene so much so they missed the 4-year-old girl who was fortunately found alive 20 hours after the accident? Why was the train head crushed when it clearly contained the most important control and communication equipment? Can anyone give one innocent explanation for the rapid destruction of the accident scene? Arse covering if you ask me.

Why is it that a lot of people are focussing on this wreckage? It is precisely the attitude behind the rescue and clean-up that caused the accident in the first place. Haste - to run the trains at all costs, and cover-up - of the embarrasing signalling failure under a bit of thunder.
You are right about haste causing the accident, and I believe that it's the reason behind removing the wreckage quickly too. That is to reopen the line as quickly as possible, which I don't think is smart. Besides the girl there is also an account from PAP firefighters who disobeyed order to lower the carriage hanging on the bridge to the ground because they believed there are still survivors, and actually found a four year old boy alive inside.

I have my doubts about the whole cover up conspiracy theory because I was under the impression that it was management who decided to disregard computer instruction that caused the accident (I could be wrong here). In addition, the black boxes have been taken away by police for investigation. Whatever caused D301 receiving all green light, destroying the carriages will not help cover up, so what's the point. Regarding the train heads, they were almost completely destroyed in the accident, I've not yet seen anything showing they crushing the drivers cabin. I've seen videos of bulldozers using its claw to pray open one carriage though.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:56 AM   #2870
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They banned media from the scene 48 hours after the crash. Also issued some media directives:

Quote:
Central Propaganda Department: In regard to the Wenzhou high-speed train crash, all media outlets are to promptly report information released from the Ministry of Railways. No journalists should conduct independent interviews. All subsidiaries including newspaper, magazines and websites are to be well controlled. Do not link reports with articles regarding the development of high-speed trains. Do not conduct reflective reports.

Additional directives for all central media: The latest directives on reporting the Wenzhou high-speed train crash: 1. Release death toll only according to figures from authorities. 2. Do not report on a frequent basis. 3. More touching stories are to reported instead, i.e. blood donation, free taxi services, etc. 4. Do not investigate the causes of the accident; use information released from authorities as standard. 5. Do not reflect or comment.

Reminder on reporting matters: All reports regarding the Wenzhou high-speed train accident are to be titled “7.23 Yong-Wen line major transportation accident.” Reporting of the accident is to use “ ‘in the face of great tragedy, there’s great love’” as the major theme. Do not question. Do not elaborate. Do not associate. No re-posting on micro-blogs will be allowed! Related service information may be provided during news reporting. Music is to be carefully selected!
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Old July 27th, 2011, 01:50 AM   #2871
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After the media has been "banned from the scene," media reports that carriages which should have been "crushed and buried" are being transported away for investigation. /s

















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Old July 27th, 2011, 01:56 AM   #2872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
They banned media from the scene 48 hours after the crash. Also issued some media directives:
u didn't even care to give any source now? next time when you posted something like this, you better give a link to the source, and when I say source, it does not mean rumor-mongering machine such as boxun.com (yeah, I know they are the "source" of these statements, but do you?)
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Old July 27th, 2011, 02:07 AM   #2873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
You are right about haste causing the accident, and I believe that it's the reason behind removing the wreckage quickly too. That is to reopen the line as quickly as possible, which I don't think is smart. Besides the girl there is also an account from PAP firefighters who disobeyed order to lower the carriage hanging on the bridge to the ground because they believed there are still survivors, and actually found a four year old boy alive inside.

I have my doubts about the whole cover up conspiracy theory because I was under the impression that it was management who decided to disregard computer instruction that caused the accident (I could be wrong here). In addition, the black boxes have been taken away by police for investigation. Whatever caused D301 receiving all green light, destroying the carriages will not help cover up, so what's the point. Regarding the train heads, they were almost completely destroyed in the accident, I've not yet seen anything showing they crushing the drivers cabin. I've seen videos of bulldozers using its claw to pray open one carriage though.
most 'analysis' from amateurish forumers I've been reading are somewhat contradicting to each other. while I also suspect that it could be due to overriding the system, I don't think the disclosed information is enough to make a conclusion.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:03 AM   #2874
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Also I'm pissed off about the news report made by CCTV and Xinhua so far, the reaction of some foreign medias just made me sick.

1. " officials said burying part of the wreckage is to keep the technology secrets." I've never read any report about the claim in any Chinese media, even in Chinese forums, none of the foreign medias listed the sources either, so the sources must be from E.T. I'm just curious about what kind of technology to hide? as the trains are actually first generation Trains made under Japanese and Germany technology. say nothing of their are tens of thousands of Japanese spys liveing in China (I hate to say so, but I had to accept the rumor as Japanese media arrives the scene even before Chinese media recieved the massage from passengers, or there are Japanesde passengers on board on the train, and how did the Japanese journalists across the muddy fields after the pouring rain to arrive the scene?)

2. "They banned media from the scene 48 hours after the crash." totally bullshit, then tell me where does the overwhelming reports from medias come from? just go through the internet to found them yourself. the scene of dozens of journalist questioning MOR rporters was live to the whole country on Zhejiang TV ifyou call this is a ban on media.

3. from what I've read, most of western medias just keep doing unfounded speculation, accuse and cynical, seldom news about the rescue and the performance of rescue workers and respectable Wenzhou Citizens. they just pick or made unsourced infomations what they needed or what the western readers want to hear.

medias like CNN, BBC, and the ******* of "China Digital Times" etc, credibility is much worse then CCTV and Xinhua, who never provide bigmouth reports.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:24 AM   #2875
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Originally Posted by coth View Post
point is that IX+ intensity earthquakes happens very often in china, unless you mix up intensity with magnitude
ShiJiaZhuang may sit on a potiential earthquake zone, but just for that design the station to take a richter 7+ earthquake? How many stations in the world can take a richter 7 anyway? Crazy.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:28 AM   #2876
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
After the media has been "banned from the scene," media reports that carriages which should have been "crushed and buried" are being transported away for investigation. /s
On the photo you posted in post 2834. There are a total of six carriages lying next to the bridge. Anyone who insisted that the carriages were buried simply can't count from 1 to 6.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:38 AM   #2877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
Also I'm pissed off about the news report made by CCTV and Xinhua so far, the reaction of some foreign medias just made me sick.

medias like CNN, BBC, and the ******* of "China Digital Times" etc, credibility is much worse then CCTV and Xinhua, who never provide bigmouth reports.
I know this is OT, but normally party propaganda machines tend to withhold information to serve party interests, while foreign media with a China agenda tend to outright lie. IMO the likes of CCTV is probably the less of two evils.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:39 AM   #2878
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What did you expect? Unfortunately, there are many people who are very happy about this accident.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:55 AM   #2879
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On the photo you posted in post 2834. There are a total of six carriages lying next to the bridge. Anyone who insisted that the carriages were buried simply can't count from 1 to 6.
It's actually understandable that some people will think this way. After going through a lot of pictures and read a lot of witness accounts, I have a theory myself. Under the viaduct were several small shallow fish ponds, which made it almost impossible for large machinery to negotiate. Therefore excavators were brought in and dug out the earth between them, then pumped out the water, and created a relatively flat, pit like area. Then they hoisted one of D3115's last carriages off the viaduct and placed it there. Now because that car is almost crushed flat (it went under D301), and also because it sits in a pit now, it will give bystanders the false impression of burial.

What puzzles me is that CRH2 has a more "pointed" nose than CRH1, yet most carriages that derailed and went over the viaduct are from D301 (CRH2).
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:56 AM   #2880
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Whatever caused D301 receiving all green light
Did it recieve green light? It is said signalling was broken because of a lightning. Things happen, not a serious issue. But in this case signals must have been dark, not green. Providing green light while some part of the system is broken is very dangerous and unacceptable.
Therefore I suppose the signals did not have any light.
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