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Old August 12th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #3021
hkskyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I don't think they have officially launched any legal action, part of the reason is that the patents in questions were reportedly only "based" on Siemens technology, not copied or even derived, so the vague definition is the main point of dispute. Also they would not want to risk future business relationship with MOR, since they are still a major partner in areas of signalling and train subsystems, not just in HSR but rail in general.
I doubt it. If there is a real legal basis on the infringements then Siemens management would not want to lose its entire global market when they know someone else is copying their work and patenting it. At least if they go to court they have a chance of recovering their market share rather than lose it all.

Unless there wasn't not any infringement or stealing to begin with ...
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Old August 12th, 2011, 06:43 PM   #3022
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Is Beijing-Tianjin ICL speed going to be lowered from 330km/h at all?
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Old August 12th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #3023
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Every high speed line with the exception of the Shangahi one which has already had its speed cut from 380 to 300 will have between 40 and 50kmh cut. Their lowering ticket prices to compensate but it tanks their prospects of ever generating enough revenue to recover the construction finance loans and bonds even more. The construction of HSR lines was also 4% of Chinas annual GDP which is now suspended, along side the investment in rail related property developments its sparking economic slowdown fears.

Older members of the Party are using it as an opportunity to displace the younger progressive and free market leaders who had held the balance of power recently. Sadly rail is being used as a weapon in a political war beyond its immediate economic and public safety concern impact.
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Old August 12th, 2011, 11:18 PM   #3024
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Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Every high speed line with the exception of the Shangahi one which has already had its speed cut from 380 to 300 will have between 40 and 50kmh cut. Their lowering ticket prices to compensate but it tanks their prospects of ever generating enough revenue to recover the construction finance loans and bonds even more. The construction of HSR lines was also 4% of Chinas annual GDP which is now suspended, along side the investment in rail related property developments its sparking economic slowdown fears.
All lines designed for 350 and 380km/h are now limited to 300km/h, no further speed cuts for them, no HSR line in China ever run at 380km/h during revenue runs. Ticket price cuts have generated more traffic, and MOR is hoping this increase of traffic, reduced energy consumption and wear and tear will offset reduction in ticket income per passenger. Using 2010 GDP, China's 2011 HSR investment will be more like 7-8%, 1H11 investment is already CNY 278.1B. Construction of HSR is NOT suspended, approval of new HSR lines are. As of now all the approved projects can sustain the HSR industry until 2015 and beyond. In the same token rail related property development is likely to continue.
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Old August 12th, 2011, 11:19 PM   #3025
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Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Is Beijing-Tianjin ICL speed going to be lowered from 330km/h at all?
Yes, both Beijing-Tianjin ICL and Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR have been limited to 300km/h.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 03:10 AM   #3026
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The reduction of speed, can it be interpreted as a fault in the whole system? I must admit that I do that. Their services are running so tight that it is really no margin left.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 05:10 AM   #3027
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The reduction of speed, can it be interpreted as a fault in the whole system? I must admit that I do that. Their services are running so tight that it is really no margin left.
No. It's a fault of the new Ministry, the fault of Sheng Guangzu, and the fault of the ones who chose Sheng Guangzu and as the Minister, not the fault of the system.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 06:52 AM   #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
No. It's a fault of the new Ministry, the fault of Sheng Guangzu, and the fault of the ones who chose Sheng Guangzu and as the Minister, not the fault of the system.


Sheng Guangzu

Many people who are in charge like Sheng Guangzu are seriously lacking creative and progressive imagination skills,
and innovative brain power on -- how to use high technology to solve the Ministry of Railway problems.

Firstly, the latest RFID high technology on the market are cheap and reliable.
This RFID tech can easily be implemented to supervise all Ministry of Railway personnels across the board,
if they are properly performing on their jobs as they are suppose to be.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 07:55 AM   #3029
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Like I said before Sheng Guangzu is just a bureaucrat, his appointment is purely political.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 11:28 AM   #3030
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Okay. I thought the Siemens-Chinese controversy about reexporting technologies that were part of their exclusive license agreement were facts of public knowledge. I will get some time this weekend and try to build the case, then.
Public knowledge?
Showing some ignoramusitis.

We are all EAGERLY waiting for you to show some solid proof to back up your "stealing accusation" this coming Monday 2011 AUG 15.

Your muddy reputation is on the line if you show up anywhere in SSC (meaning any other SSC forum) empty handed.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #3031
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We can give Liu credit for his enthusiasm for the railways, but he was over-enthusiastic, to the point the need for speed put quality into question, and he did leave a rather messy legacy as events have turned out. Then you have Sheng who's clearly not interested, whose responses to problems are always reactive rather than proactive.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #3032
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Current 350kph route will decrease to 300kph so Wuhan Guangzou Shenzhen will run 300kph. Other 250kph routes will now run 200kph. 200kph routes will now run 160kph.
this is kinda stupid unless there is something else behind it. there is no difference between 350 and 250 kmph in term of safety. anything above 130 kmph is unsafe as you won't have a time to apply emergency breaks when visually observing some obstacle.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 07:40 PM   #3033
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this is kinda stupid unless there is something else behind it. there is no difference between 350 and 250 kmph in term of safety. anything above 130 kmph is unsafe as you won't have a time to apply emergency breaks when visually observing some obstacle.
My impression was the speed cut was due to operational cost reasons. It's very expensive to operate at high speeds and slowing it down may help breakeven.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 09:37 PM   #3034
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No. It's a fault of the new Ministry, the fault of Sheng Guangzu, and the fault of the ones who chose Sheng Guangzu and as the Minister, not the fault of the system.
I don't know if you understand what I said? My English aren't perfect. Sorry.

What I mean with "the whole system" is the whole technical infrastructure in the Chinese high speed trains. It's obvious that the engineers and the people on top would be to blame for this, not the bad weather. But i wonder if the whole system is build with glitches and faults?

I remember I asked myself that 10 min intervals are very tight on a 350kmh line.
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Old August 14th, 2011, 09:41 AM   #3035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
We can give Liu credit for his enthusiasm for the railways, but he was over-enthusiastic, to the point the need for speed put quality into question, and he did leave a rather messy legacy as events have turned out. Then you have Sheng who's clearly not interested, whose responses to problems are always reactive rather than proactive.
I think at the begining Liu was not only pushing speed, but also quality, however he built a culture in the MOR that pursue speed at all cost, and it's been taken advantage of by lower level managers and subcontractors. When the whole project got too big, Liu lost the ability to micro manage everything. Most of the problems surfaced are on lines constructed or converted after the inital batch (2007 and earlier). On the other hand, Sheng is not only not interested in HSR, but he benefits from discrediting Liu's achievements. I hope he get his ass fired.
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Old August 14th, 2011, 09:45 AM   #3036
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My impression was the speed cut was due to operational cost reasons. It's very expensive to operate at high speeds and slowing it down may help breakeven.
I think the latest speed reductions (Beijing-Tianjin ICL and Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR) are related to CRH380BL recalls from CNR Changchun. The problem may not be specific to that plant, Tangshan coule get dragged in as well, which means their CRH380BLs running on the two aforementioned lines may have problems too.
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Old August 14th, 2011, 04:30 PM   #3037
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I remember I asked myself that 10 min intervals are very tight on a 350kmh line.
Then you should definitely visit France and spend a visit to the LGV Nord (between Lille and Paris) or LGV Sud-Est, where a trains runs as often as every 3 minutes in both directions.

So far, 0 people have died while inside a TGV train, while they've been running for 30 years now.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 06:35 AM   #3038
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Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
I don't know if you understand what I said? My English aren't perfect. Sorry.

What I mean with "the whole system" is the whole technical infrastructure in the Chinese high speed trains. It's obvious that the engineers and the people on top would be to blame for this, not the bad weather. But i wonder if the whole system is build with glitches and faults?
I don't think the Sheng Guangzu thing is part of the "whole system". He's not even qualified. He must be a mole sent by rail haters or competitors such as the air industry. Read those propaganda all over the news, I believe there must be something dirty behind this.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 06:05 PM   #3039
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I think the latest speed reductions (Beijing-Tianjin ICL and Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR) are related to CRH380BL recalls from CNR Changchun. The problem may not be specific to that plant, Tangshan coule get dragged in as well, which means their CRH380BLs running on the two aforementioned lines may have problems too.
But isn't the speed cut across the board? Even before the crash, there has been talk within China that the HSR network is too expensive and beyond the reach of the commonfolks, especially the rural poor. Back then, cutting speeds and ticket prices was already drawn up as a potential solution. I think the crash just pushed the pendulum in that direction even faster.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #3040
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But isn't the speed cut across the board? Even before the crash, there has been talk within China that the HSR network is too expensive and beyond the reach of the commonfolks, especially the rural poor. Back then, cutting speeds and ticket prices was already drawn up as a potential solution. I think the crash just pushed the pendulum in that direction even faster.
Yes but both Beijing-Tianjin and Shanghai-Hangzhou survived the initial speed reduction. Then the recall came and all the sudden these two lines got the brake as well. That's why I don't think these two cases are related to economic reasons. Remember that they had to give up many of their CRH380A/ALs to reinforce Beijing-Shanghai line after MOR took away 54 CRH380BL trainsets from service on said line.
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