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Old August 16th, 2011, 05:18 PM   #3041
Mika Montwald
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
But isn't the speed cut across the board? Even before the crash, there has been talk within China that the HSR network is too expensive and beyond the reach of the commonfolks, especially the rural poor. ... ...

The above observation about rural peasants is absolutely false.

Rural peasants can definitely AFFORD to buy the CRH tickets.

Because, the common folks and rural peasants can easily afford to gamble (playing cards & mahjong) and lose at least 3000+ RMB per year.


How many people in the western world are aware that plenty of common folks and rural peasants are using the expensive AMWAY toothpaste and other expensive AMWAY products??
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Old August 16th, 2011, 05:44 PM   #3042
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Unfortunately, it looks like that some of our worst fear have materialized. This 7.23 accident has now evolved into pure political play now as many of us have smelled in the very beginning.

Sad day for China HSR !
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Old August 16th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #3043
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Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post
The above observation about rural peasants is absolutely false.

Rural peasants can definitely AFFORD to buy the CRH tickets.

Because, the common folks and rural peasants can easily afford to gamble (playing cards & mahjong) and lose at least 3000+ RMB per year.


How many people in the western world are aware that plenty of common folks and rural peasants are using the expensive AMWAY toothpaste and other expensive AMWAY products??
Then perhaps you can explain why there are incredible lines for cheap train tickets on slower trains during the golden week rushes.

I'm sure most people living in the West can afford designer handbags even at minimum wage salaries, but would they make that spending because they can afford it?

Think you're over-estimating the income earning power of the rural migrant class. They certainly haven't reached middle class incomes yet that the CRH is going after.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 08:23 PM   #3044
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Quote:
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I'm sure most people living in the West can afford designer handbags even at minimum wage salaries, but would they make that spending because they can afford it?
You'd be surprised how many people bought the ipad while still on food stamps. A lot of people in the US, even at middle class income level, still live paycheck by paycheck, it's the high cost of mortgage, car ownership, and healthcare that suck out most of the wealth. Oh well that's totally OT so I'll stop here.

I think most people in China, especially migrant workers, valuing saving hugely, that's why they will often go with the cheapest means of transportation. But my experience tells me that plenty of them fill the CRH trains during the Chinese new year travel rush (yeah my mistake to time my travel plan during that period ).
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Old August 16th, 2011, 10:29 PM   #3045
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Okay. I thought the Siemens-Chinese controversy about reexporting technologies that were part of their exclusive license agreement were facts of public knowledge. I will get some time this weekend and try to build the case, then.
Since you are spending time on it, teach Siemens how to do business You know, I wouldn't equip my enemy with my own weapons...

Jokes aside, all rational people can see Chinese high speed build up has been a bless for Siemens, Kawasaki and Bombardier. If one looks at the deals and amount of money they have made... China is their most profitable costumer.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 12:13 AM   #3046
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Then perhaps you can explain why there are incredible lines for cheap train tickets on slower trains during the golden week rushes.

I'm sure most people living in the West can afford designer handbags even at minimum wage salaries, but would they make that spending because they can afford it?

Think you're over-estimating the income earning power of the rural migrant class. They certainly haven't reached middle class incomes yet that the CRH is going after.
Are you kidding me. "People earning minimum wage in the West can afford designer handbags". You obviously have no idea how people with minimum wage lives in the west. I know many of them and none of them are even dear to dream of buying one. That is why Walmart became the world's biggest retailer. Please go to the food bank line up and find out.

Last edited by stoneybee; August 17th, 2011 at 12:27 AM.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 01:09 AM   #3047
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Okay. I thought the Siemens-Chinese controversy about reexporting technologies that were part of their exclusive license agreement were facts of public knowledge. I will get some time this weekend and try to build the case, then.
We're still waiting.....
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Old August 17th, 2011, 05:18 AM   #3048
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Chinese Vice Premier calls for thorough rail safety checks
2011-08-16 15:57:39 GMT2011-08-16 23:57:39(Beijing Time) Xinhua English

BEIJING, Aug. 16 (Xinhua) -- Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang on Tuesday urged a thorough overhaul of China's high-speed railways to prevent major accidents.
The checks, to run from mid-August to mid-September, aim to "thoroughly eliminate risks" concerning high-speed railways and "effectively prevent and resolutely curb" major railway accidents to ensure the safety of rail traffic, Zhang said at a mobilization meeting for the checks.
The safety of the country's high-speed railways was questioned after high-speed trains on a line near the eastern city of Wenzhou collided on July 23, leaving 40 people dead and 191 injured.
"The accident cautioned us that safety is the priority for railway development...Starting safety checks is a pressing need to raise the government's credibility and also a key measure to ensure the safety of railway transport," Zhang said.
The safety checks cover high-speed railways that are both in operation and under construction, according to a State Council statement released last week.
The State Administration of Work Safety will lead the inspection on equipment quality, operation safety, and design and quality of railways under construction.
The government will reevaluate the system safety on rail projects that have received government approval but have not commenced construction. It ordered a temporary halt of approval of new railway lines until the safety review can be completed, according to the statement.
The checks will be carried out by 12 teams composed of government officials and 175 technical experts. Officials of Ministry of Railways are not on the list.
The teams should make thorough checks of high-speed railways and not go through the motions, Zhang said.
He encouraged officials and experts to "go deep down to the grass-roots levels" for first-hand information and provide suggestions on how to improve rail safety.
Operations and constructions must be stopped instantly if any potential safety hazards are spotted, Zhang said.
The safety checks are the latest move by the government to regain the public's trust in the country's fast-growing high-speed rail sector.
Effective on Tuesday, bullet trains with a designed maximum speed of 350 km per hour start running at 300 km, those with designed maximum speeds of 250 km per hour run at 200 km per hour, and those with maximum speed 200 km per hour run at 160 km per hour.
Ticket prices have been trimmed accordingly.
"Cutting running speeds of bullet trains during the initial stages is necessary for the ministry to gather experience in the management of railway safety," railway minister Sheng Guangzu said.
Separately, the Ministry of Railways said Tuesday it decided to dismiss the ministry's spokesman Wang Yongping.
Wang's remarks at a press conference on July 24 triggered a torrent of public criticism.
When asked why a two and a half year old girl was pulled out of debris hours after the search and rescue team stopped their operations, he said "that is a miracle of life."
When questioned whether the ministry attempted to cover up the truth of the accident by burying train head, Wang replied the move mainly aimed to facilitate the rescue work. "Their explanation given is this. Whether you believe it or not, I believe it anyway," he said.
Wang will be transferred to a Warsaw-based international railway cooperative organization, according to a railway official who declined to be named.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 05:31 AM   #3049
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First day of operation of Beijing-Shanghai HSR and Beijing-Tianjin ICL after the schedule adjustment. Beijing-Shanghai trains reduced from 88 per direction to 66 due to CRH380BL recall (36 trainsets, 42% of current G trains on that line). Out of the 30 trains departing to Hongqiao after 11am more than 20 sold out their 2nd class tickets. Beijing-Tianjin ICL frequency remains at 70 per direction, speed reduced from 350 to 300 causing the total travel time to extend to 33 minutes from 30 minutes. First and 2nd class ticket price reduced by ¥3,VIP seat price reduce by ¥5.


京沪高铁按新图运行车次减少二等座抢手
http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2011-08-17/032223002019.shtml
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Old August 17th, 2011, 06:05 AM   #3050
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Recalled high-speed trains pull over for overhaul

Last Updated 2011-08-17
en.ce.cn

A recalled high-speed CRH380BL train stops at the Hongqiao High-speed Trains Center for a technical overhaul in Shanghai, August 16, 2011. China CNR Corporation Ltd, one of the country's largest train producers, has recalled 54 high-speed trains used on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway out of safety concerns. It began a technical overhaul in Shanghai starting on Tuesday. [Photos/Xinhua]

image hosted on flickr


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Old August 17th, 2011, 06:05 PM   #3051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneybee View Post
Are you kidding me. "People earning minimum wage in the West can afford designer handbags". You obviously have no idea how people with minimum wage lives in the west. I know many of them and none of them are even dear to dream of buying one. That is why Walmart became the world's biggest retailer. Please go to the food bank line up and find out.
The point I'm trying to make is the wage amount is big enough to cover a handbag's cost within a short period of time. But people choose not to spend it because they don't necessarily spend what they can afford. This applies for handbags, as well as CRH train tickets.

Hence, during the golden week rush, the lines for cheap trains get out of hand. The migrant classes are most certainly not the primarily beneficiaries of CRH. Unless someone can tell me how a poor Chinese person lives vastly differently than a poor person in the West.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 04:42 AM   #3052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
First day of operation of Beijing-Shanghai HSR and Beijing-Tianjin ICL after the schedule adjustment. Beijing-Shanghai trains reduced from 88 per direction to 66 due to CRH380BL recall (36 trainsets, 42% of current G trains on that line). Out of the 30 trains departing to Hongqiao after 11am more than 20 sold out their 2nd class tickets. Beijing-Tianjin ICL frequency remains at 70 per direction, speed reduced from 350 to 300 causing the total travel time to extend to 33 minutes from 30 minutes. First and 2nd class ticket price reduced by ¥3,VIP seat price reduce by ¥5.


京沪高铁按新图运行车次减少二等座抢手
http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2011-08-17/032223002019.shtml
Does the fastest Beijing-Shanghai train still have the same 4:48h travel time? When i took it a few weeks ago it regularly went faster than 300 km/h and did the trip in 4:45h.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 08:40 AM   #3053
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Does the fastest Beijing-Shanghai train still have the same 4:48h travel time? When i took it a few weeks ago it regularly went faster than 300 km/h and did the trip in 4:45h.
Correct, the fastest (direct) train such as G1 and G3 still maintain the 4:48 travel time. The one stop (Nanjing South) train will make it in 4:55. It's pretty common for the trains to run a little faster or slower than their normal speed, resulting in arriving a couple of minutes early or late.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 02:01 AM   #3054
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Correct, the fastest (direct) train such as G1 and G3 still maintain the 4:48 travel time. The one stop (Nanjing South) train will make it in 4:55. It's pretty common for the trains to run a little faster or slower than their normal speed, resulting in arriving a couple of minutes early or late.
The G1 also stops at Nanjing South. I don't think there's a non-stop train on the Beijing-Shanghai line.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 08:15 AM   #3055
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You are absolutely correct, the fastest one is the one stop (Nanjing South) G1, G3, and then there are the six two stop (Nanjing South, Jinan West) trains which use 4:55, there are no non-stop direct service.
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Old August 20th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #3056
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Are you kidding me. "People earning minimum wage in the West can afford designer handbags". You obviously have no idea how people with minimum wage lives in the west. I know many of them and none of them are even dear to dream of buying one. That is why Walmart became the world's biggest retailer. Please go to the food bank line up and find out.
1 designer handbag* = 1-2 months' income of a full-time minimum-wage manual worker in the developed west = 6-12 months' income of an average (note not elite) full-time graduate trainee in China, yet someone from the latter group is far more likely to have an LV bag.

*1 real designer handbag costs between ¥10000-20000(£1000-2000).
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Old August 21st, 2011, 01:58 PM   #3057
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1 designer handbag* = 1-2 months' income of a full-time minimum-wage manual worker in the developed west = 6-12 months' income of an average (note not elite) full-time graduate trainee in China, yet someone from the latter group is far more likely to have an LV bag.

*1 real designer handbag costs between ¥10000-20000(£1000-2000).
First of all there isn't really anything like a minimum wage even in the richest countries in western europe. There are all sorts of ways to circumvent laws that prohibit slave wages, this happens even in Germany, France or the UK.

Anyway, fulltime jobs can have a start wage as low as 600 euros, and this is western europe, in Spain for example 60% of the working force earn less than 1000 euros a month. There are people working in kebab restaurants in London slaving away at 1 pund per hour, and that is a reality in all of western europe.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 05:44 PM   #3058
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First of all there isn't really anything like a minimum wage even in the richest countries in western europe. There are all sorts of ways to circumvent laws that prohibit slave wages, this happens even in Germany, France or the UK.

Anyway, fulltime jobs can have a start wage as low as 600 euros, and this is western europe, in Spain for example 60% of the working force earn less than 1000 euros a month. There are people working in kebab restaurants in London slaving away at 1 pund per hour, and that is a reality in all of western europe.
If you want to start comparing European incomes - even the 2nd and 3rd tier within the EU - it will just show how much more Europeans make vs. the migrant Chinese.

Hence, the migrant classes go for the slower trains.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 08:25 PM   #3059
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Just heard another 18 CSR trains (dont know the model) have been pulled from service, and a magazines (Caixin Century Magazine ) alleging that it wasnt the safety systems failures publically said to be the culprit that caused the BL trains to be recalled, the workers found a 7.1mm long, 2.4mm high crack on an axle and Ministry safety rules state that if a crack longer than 2mm is found they must be withdrawn from service.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 05:57 PM   #3060
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The head of the Signalling Technology company which took the blame for the crash has died of a heart attack just as the inspection team arrived at the building, he had no previous health problems.
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