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Old August 28th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #3081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
This way there is no speed differential and rogue stopping trains eating up train paths maximising line capacity utilisation. However, with all the intermediate stations built this is (politically) nigh-on impossible.
Tokaido Shinkansen shows how much capacity can be found on a line with stopping trains.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #3082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post
That sentence puzzled me.

Why is building intermediate stations impossible (politically)?

Could you please explain?
What I said was the intermediate stations reduce capacity, but as they have all been built and served by trains (though only a handful a day) it's politically impossible to close those stations and simply train schedules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Tokaido Shinkansen shows how much capacity can be found on a line with stopping trains.
But it's still quite evident that, given relatively few extra stops, the slow trains still take up a lot of train paths, which in the long term the Chinese mainline cannot afford to lose.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #3083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
But it's still quite evident that, given relatively few extra stops, the slow trains still take up a lot of train paths, which in the long term the Chinese mainline cannot afford to lose.
The solution Japan picked is not abolishing Shinkansen stations. Nor making Tokaido Shinkansen four track - the long term solution Japan chose is build Chuo Shinkansen on parallel route.

It will take 81 years from Tokaido Shinkansen opening to Chuo Shinkansen opening. China, with 10 times the population of Japan, could do well to take the lesson sooner.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #3084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
It is interesting to compare the seating capacities of trains.

Alstom TGV Duplex (10 cars including 2 power cars): 545, other source says 512
CRH380A (8 cars): 494
CRH3C (8 cars): 556
CRH380AL (16 cars): 1066

Source: Wikipedia

Therefore double decker trains are hardly a viable solution because they give a rather low addition in passenger capacity. Existing capacity should be enough for a while. Perhaps adding an extra carriage could be a workable and more effective solution? Does anyone know what are the longest trains that could be accommodated by CRH stations? Currently the longest trains have 16 cars. What about, say 18 or 20 car long trains?
As evidenced by these two videos:


Most terminal stations should not have a problem handling 18 car trains, but I cannot say the same for sure about infill stations.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #3085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
It is interesting to compare the seating capacities of trains.

Alstom TGV Duplex (10 cars including 2 power cars): 545, other source says 512
CRH380A (8 cars): 494
CRH3C (8 cars): 556
CRH380AL (16 cars): 1066

Source: Wikipedia

Therefore double decker trains are hardly a viable solution because they give a rather low addition in passenger capacity. Existing capacity should be enough for a while. Perhaps adding an extra carriage could be a workable and more effective solution? Does anyone know what are the longest trains that could be accommodated by CRH stations? Currently the longest trains have 16 cars. What about, say 18 or 20 car long trains?
WRONG...

Have a look and fiend out yourself that the TGV Duplex you are referring to has only 8 passenger coaches between two locomotives, of which 1 should not be counted because it holds the Bar/bistro, So in fact you only have 7 coaches, which are not 25 meter long.

If double decker stock wasn't such a capacity booster, why on earth do NS have over 300 of them? Simply because they increase seating capacity by 40% compared to single deck trains.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 05:05 PM   #3086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten Otto View Post
WRONG...

Have a look and fiend out yourself that the TGV Duplex you are referring to has only 8 passenger coaches between two locomotives, of which 1 should not be counted because it holds the Bar/bistro, So in fact you only have 7 coaches, which are not 25 meter long.

If double decker stock wasn't such a capacity booster, why on earth do NS have over 300 of them? Simply because they increase seating capacity by 40% compared to single deck trains.
What kind of infantile response is that? Does CRH380A not have a dining car?

If the chinese trains with their wider bodies achieve similar capacity than a French double-decker, there is simply no need for them to develop a double-decker variant.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 08:02 PM   #3087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post

If the chinese trains with their wider bodies achieve similar capacity than a French double-decker, there is simply no need for them to develop a double-decker variant.
Unless capacity on the line is still too low with the wider bodied trains. Then they can double deck that nice thick body and get even more passengers in one train
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Old September 1st, 2011, 11:18 AM   #3088
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Given the tremendous demographic density of the coastal regions I wonder if they'll have to build double lines. You can expand airports without limits, but railways have a maximum capacity.
That's nonsense. First of all you can't enlarge airports without any limits and more importantly the sky can accommodate only as much planes.

At the same time HSR can first of all run double decker carriages. This has been discussed here already before. Chinese trains seem to feature already now a high capacity but I can't see why turning them double decker couldn't substantially increase capacity on top of that.

A second option is to build a denser HSR network, with a somewhat different 2nd corridor and if that doesn't make sense what should prevent the authorities from enlarging the line from 2 to 4 tracks?
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 12:23 PM   #3089
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How much of the maximum capacity of the BJ-SH HSR is used now? Shouldn't they be at least start planning of the second line. Maybe it could be more direct, going by Binzhou, Lianyungang, Yancheng and Nantong.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 05:46 PM   #3090
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More fallout from the accident. The Beijing Times and the Beijing News which defied propeganda edicts to report the story have been placed under the direct control of the Beijing branch of the Propeganda Ministrys deputy leader instead of the looser state propeganda branch. Blogging searches for the two papers are being blocked.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 06:08 PM   #3091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnorian View Post
How much of the maximum capacity of the BJ-SH HSR is used now? Shouldn't they be at least start planning of the second line. Maybe it could be more direct, going by Binzhou, Lianyungang, Yancheng and Nantong.
Oh that line has plenty of spare train paths.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 10:20 PM   #3092
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Quote:
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Oh that line has plenty of spare train paths.
Beijing-Shanghai high speed PDL?
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Old September 4th, 2011, 08:04 AM   #3093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT

Oh that line has plenty of spare train paths.
I agree, at its presence frequency it's not even close to its maximum capacity. I think MOR has plenty of options to pursue before thinking about getting a CRH double decker.
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Old September 4th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #3094
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I agree, at its presence frequency it's not even close to its maximum capacity. I think MOR has plenty of options to pursue before thinking about getting a CRH double decker.
Actually, the original question was whether they should start thinking about doubling the line.

And then the response was that even before they ever start thinking about that, they could first start using double deckers.

So yes, they have plenty of options, if those run out they can always get double deckers, and then when that's not enough, they can think about doubling the lines.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 08:29 AM   #3095
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Update: Wenzhou Crash Investigation

Update: Wenzhou Crash Investigation
Primary Causes: Human Errors on ( Inattentive Dispatchers ) and ( Weak Software Design )

Source: CAIXIN

Link: http://english.caing.com/2011-09-01/100297517.html


Quote:
... ...

It was clear to dispatchers that inaccurate information was showing up at the Wenzhou or Shanghai control stations. But they failed to understand that errors were being fed into the control system and passed on to Shanghai controllers.


A source close to the investigation team said the software should have worked in a way that alerted dispatchers to the flawed information-gathering, but the dispatchers may have missed the notices.


"Had these notice marks raised attention, dispatchers should have cleared the problematic information and required the second train to switch to manual mode, moving at 20 kilometers per hour," said the source.


"A dispatcher should have spotted the problem," said a source close to investigators. "He let a train move into the zone (with the slower train), which didn't show up on the CTC system. How could he fail to notice the missing train and realize there was something wrong with the information collected by local boards and being fed to CTC?"


... ...

---------------------------------------------------

My non pro speculation:

Maybe the Dispatchers were playing with his mobile phone, thus he / she failed to notice the Software Alert.

Or maybe the Software Alert was not designed to properly send a loud audio alert (visual alert only) _?
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Last edited by Mika Montwald; September 5th, 2011 at 08:36 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #3096
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you shouldn't really play a phone in emergency situation.

moreover it's not a single dispatcher. there are few assistants also monitoring the situation on the same section. and dispatcher with assistants should remember all train on their section. how could several people simply forget about one of trains, while being in emergency and controlling trains manually? you don't have so much trains on your section - 10 maximum.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #3097
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Internal Railways Ministry report has been leaked by the China Daily, 106 out of 168 glitches in High Speed rolling stock across all four manufacturers were caused by poor quality materials and design faults. The report calls for manufacturers and officials to put in place procedures to stop such quality problems occuring in the future.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #3098
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By YouSee from a Chinese photography forum :

















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Old September 6th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #3099
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That faucet is definitely retro looking. Maybe automatic dispensing ones should be used for both hygiene and water conservation purposes.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #3100
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I love those new seats, they look nice.
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