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Old December 8th, 2011, 04:54 AM   #3261
k.k.jetcar
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At the station where the pylons are located next to the stopping tracks, I see no problem (as someone previously mentioned). However, the next picture is more problematic. It depends on the line speed of the through tracks. Not exactly optimal architecture, nonetheless.

Take a look at this video, at Charles de Gaulle AP station. I'm no structural engineer, but judge for yourself:
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Old December 8th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #3262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
At the station where the pylons are located next to the stopping tracks, I see no problem (as someone previously mentioned). However, the next picture is more problematic. It depends on the line speed of the through tracks. Not exactly optimal architecture, nonetheless.

Take a look at this video, at Charles de Gaulle AP station. I'm no structural engineer, but judge for yourself:
Hmm the CDG Airport Station seems much more problematic. But its never been a problem, it seems. So are you saying its OK to have pylons by the tracks or not?

By that example, then I guess you should look at Gare de Valence TGV. Same story there. One difference in France is that they use articulated carriages to prevent jacknifing. Not sure if thats why there haven't been any cases of relevant accidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gare_de_Valence_TGV
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Old December 8th, 2011, 12:59 PM   #3263
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IMO if a train jackknifes in a station at high speed, the pylons will be less of a problem than the carriages tumbling across potentially crowded platforms. Obviously, whatever the design, an accident at high speed inside a station would be horrendous.
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Old December 8th, 2011, 02:37 PM   #3264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huhu View Post
IMO if a train jackknifes in a station at high speed, the pylons will be less of a problem than the carriages tumbling across potentially crowded platforms. Obviously, whatever the design, an accident at high speed inside a station would be horrendous.
The problem with structural pylons next to the through tracks is that the train doesn't need to jackknife. All it has to do is to lean to the side by a few feet and you'll have the roof falling down + hundreds of potential casualties.

Articulated carriages or not, in an Eschede scenario (a collapsed bridge blocking the way), the cars ARE going to jackknife. Even if they are very strongly "linked" together, if you apply enough force on the connection in the right direction, it's going to snap. The force of a train travelling at 200 km/h is definitely enough to do that.
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Old December 9th, 2011, 06:06 AM   #3265
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Dear Passengers blog
http://www.dearpassengers.com/2011/1...december-2011/

Quote:
Beijing-Shanghai HSR Timetable to Change on 12 December 2011
Posted on 7 December 2011 by David Feng

There’ll be a pretty big change of the timetables on the Beijing-Shanghai High Speed Railway to come in effect as of 12 December 2011, now that the once-faulty CRH380BL trains are with us once again. Up to 92 “pairs” of trains will run during peak demand travel periods (a “pair” equates to two trains, each travelling in another direction: so one “pair” would equate to one train to Beijing and one train to Shanghai).

In the newest schedules to take effect 12 December 2011, there will be:
  • 92 pairs of trains every day during peak travel seasons;
  • 85 pairs of trains every day over weekends (Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays);
  • 78 pairs of trains every day from Monday to Thursday
for the entire line (which does not include trains that run the whole stretch).

Of these 92 pairs, 65 pairs will be 300+ km/h G trains, and 27 pairs will be 250 km/h D trains. The fastest G train will take 4 hours and 48 minutes to run the whole stretch from Beijing South to Shanghai Hongqiao.

For Tianjin West, 2 new HSR train pairs will be added, and what used to be trains G41 and G44 will now be re-known as trains G51 and G54. The new Tianjin West – Hangzhou HSR train (train G52 from Hangzhou, train G53 to Hangzhou) will run as of 30 December, and a new Tianjin West – Shanghai Hongqiao HSR train (train G214 from Shanghai Hongqiao, train G215 to Shanghai Hongqiao), which will run over weekends and peak travel seasons.

For Tianjin South, 13 new HSR trains will be added (7 to Shanghai Hongqiao, 6 to Beijing South). Note that trains that call at Tianjin South will not call at Tianjin West (and the same is also true vice-versa).

For Shandong (mainly Ji’nan West and Qingdao), there will be 86 pairs of trains in service (15 to and from Qingdao from either Beijing or Shanghai) during peak travel periods. During weekends, 79 pairs of trains will run; from Monday to Thursday, 72 pairs will be in operation.

For Nanjing South, 73 pairs of trains will run during peak travel periods. 67 pairs of trains will be in service over weekends, while 60 pairs will run during the week from Monday to Thursday. For the nearby station Zhenjiang South, 14 Beijing-bound and 20 Shanghai-bound trains will be available. Of the 14 Beijing-bound trains, 9 will end at Beijing South (with 4 stopping in Tianjin South), 1 will end at Tianjin West, 2 will head to Qingdao, 1 will head to Xuzhou East and 1 will end at Zhengzhou. For the 20 Shanghai-bound trains, 17 will end at Shanghai Hongqiao, 1 will end at Fuzhou, 1 will end at Hangzhou, and 1 will end at Jinhua West. Trains G111, G117 and G148 will run over weekends and during peak travel periods as of 16 December; train D363 will run during peak travel periods as of 30 December.

For Shanghai, 76 pairs of trains will be in operation during peak travel periods (70 over weekends and 63 from Monday to Thursday). Of the 76, 60 will be G trains (40 of which will head to Beijing South, 3 to Tianjin West, 4 to Qingdao) and 16 will be the slower D trains (3 to Beijing South, 1 to Tianjin West, 2 to Ji’nan West, 3 to Zhengzhou). Passengers transferring at Shanghai Hongqiao to Hangzhou on non-direct trains will have less options as trains G7406, G7408, G7427 and G7435 will be cancelled.
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Old December 9th, 2011, 09:00 AM   #3266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
The problem with structural pylons next to the through tracks is that the train doesn't need to jackknife. All it has to do is to lean to the side by a few feet and you'll have the roof falling down + hundreds of potential casualties.
In most examples I know of quite a bit more that a "few feet" is needed. In the CDG example the clearance is actually a couple of meters. And there are provisions to deflect trains away from the pilons in case of a derailment. So the train would scrape along the pilons maybe, but not hit them full on.

That said, a derailment at high speed is a very rare occurency. High speed rail travel is one of the safest mode of transportation.
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Old December 9th, 2011, 12:22 PM   #3267
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So CRH380BL is fixed and back in service finally.

What has been the result of the safety review of the rail network?
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Old December 9th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #3268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
In most examples I know of quite a bit more that a "few feet" is needed. In the CDG example the clearance is actually a couple of meters. And there are provisions to deflect trains away from the pilons in case of a derailment. So the train would scrape along the pilons maybe, but not hit them full on.

That said, a derailment at high speed is a very rare occurency. High speed rail travel is one of the safest mode of transportation.
What kind of "provisions" are there? I am aware that HSR is very, very safe, but I am intrigued by the technical details. As for the train station in China, it doesn't look like it's capable of standing if a train travelling at 300 km/h "brushed" against it.
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Old December 9th, 2011, 06:45 PM   #3269
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In the Netherlands we have a high speed line, HSL-Zuid. Between Breda and Dordrecht there is a junction to get onto the HSL from the regular tracks, for this purpose a fly-over has been constructed. To prevent Eschede-like disasters from happening there, strong metal support beams have been fitted onto the pilons supporting the fly-over, intended to keep a derailing train on the tracks until it has passed the fly-over.

You can see a bit of it on this picture:

source

I think similar K__ means similar provisions.
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Old December 9th, 2011, 09:31 PM   #3270
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Most part of Chinese network is elevated anyway.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #3271
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Kunshan South station


source: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/63103546 (臥箎藏尨 panoramio account)


source: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/63103543 (臥箎藏尨 panoramio account)


source: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/63103541 (臥箎藏尨 panoramio account)


source: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/63103537 (臥箎藏尨 panoramio account)
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:12 AM   #3272
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What happened to that train? Normally they look so clean.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:21 AM   #3273
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I noticed the same thing. Why the CRH trains often have that yellow-ish dirt on the bottom part? Are they not being cleaned often enough or is there some other specific reason (such as climate, weather, etc.)? Doesn't look good.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 03:06 AM   #3274
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Sand + dust + 300km/h + 600km distance = dirt

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Old December 11th, 2011, 03:35 AM   #3275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Sand + dust + 300km/h + 600km distance = dirt

You'll need moisture for it to stick.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 04:36 AM   #3276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
You'll need moisture for it to stick.
Sand + dust + moisture + 300km/h + 600km distance = dirty train




The reason Chinese trains often look so clean, is because they are often cleaned. At least on the platform side i have seen people clean them before the train would leave. Couldn't see if other people were working on the other side as well.
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Old December 12th, 2011, 04:26 PM   #3277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Sand + dust + moisture + 300km/h + 600km distance = dirty train




The reason Chinese trains often look so clean, is because they are often cleaned. At least on the platform side i have seen people clean them before the train would leave. Couldn't see if other people were working on the other side as well.
i doubt they only clean one side, other side out of reach
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Old December 14th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #3278
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It's great.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzMxOTUxMTk2.html
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Old December 15th, 2011, 01:17 AM   #3279
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Youku video

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
I agree that this is a fine video. Between which two cities was the train traveling?
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Old December 15th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #3280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
I agree that this is a fine video. Between which two cities was the train traveling?
it's like in Anhui province. I guess.
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