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Old December 27th, 2011, 06:34 AM   #3321
AlexNL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon

Unfortunately only concepts. They look many millions of times better than this "toucan"
A more important question is: will the train ever be tested at 500 km/h? Given the Chinese governments cutbacks on rail spending, the openings of lines under construction and the slowing down of operational CRH trains, where will CIT-500 be tested to see if it can actually go 500 km/h?

Reminded you that for the V150 record in 2007, Alstom, SNCF and RFF used the LGV Est, which was not yet in commercial service at that time. Also, some adjustments were made such as increasing the OHLE voltage to 31 kV.

Does China have any high speed lines where CIT-500 can be tested in such a way without disrupting passenger services?
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Old December 27th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #3322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Does China have any high speed lines where CIT-500 can be tested in such a way without disrupting passenger services?
Yes, Harbin-Dalian HSR (900+km) and Shijiazhuang-Wuhan PDL (840km) are mostly finished now, test runs for both lines will start next March and commercial service will start in the summer.
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Old December 27th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #3323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
Updated: 2011-12-26
By Li Wenfang
China Daily

GUANGZHOU - Service on the 102-km high-speed railway between Shenzhen and Guangzhou, in South China's Guangdong province, is scheduled to start on Monday. The fast trains will be
Future tense, for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
A non-stop trip between the Guangzhou South Station and the Shenzhen North Station will take 35 minutes at full speed, 34 minutes faster than the 139-km rail link between the Guangzhou East Station and Luohu Station in Shenzhen, according to the Guangzhou Railway Group Corp. The trains will run at a maximum hourly speed of 300 km initially. All 36 pairs of trains that will run daily, mainly CRH3-model cars, will stop at the Humen Station in Dongguan city,
But there were no non-stop trips.
How long did the express trips (with the single stop at Humen) take?
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Originally Posted by ANR View Post
A Guangzhou-Shenzhen high-speed train has 556 seats, including 16 in the VIP rooms, 50 in first class and 50 in the dining carriage.
How convenient was it to consume a dinner in 35 minutes?
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Old December 27th, 2011, 03:20 PM   #3324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Future tense, for some reason.

But there were no non-stop trips.
How long did the express trips (with the single stop at Humen) take?


How convenient was it to consume a dinner in 35 minutes?
28 minutes without stopping
36 minutes with a stop at HUMEN
43 minutes with stops at QINGSHENG and HUMEN
44 minutes with stops at HUMEN and GUANGMING CITY
51 minutes with stops at all QINGSHENG, HUMEN and GUANGMING CITY

every train in China probably will have a dinning car... and trains from Shenzhen will not only terminate at Guangzhou South, but keep going north to Changsha and Wuhan. this will be discussed after Chinese new year holiday.
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Old December 27th, 2011, 09:17 PM   #3325
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
GZ-SZ rail runs from 91 pairs up to 111 pairs daily.. from 182 trains to 222 trains in total.. but they stop at every stations between Shenzhen and Guangzhou(Guangzhou East)... the route(s) will be Shenzhen - Zhangmutou - Dongguan - Shilong - Guangzhou(Guangzhou East) - (Guangzhou East)..
Do you mean that D trains which travel from Shenzhen to Zhangmutuo in 20 minutes meanwhile stop at Pinghu, Tiantangwei and Tangtouxia stations?
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Old December 28th, 2011, 04:18 AM   #3326
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I have doubt on Xian-Shanghai service.

There are G trains in operation b/w Xian and Zhengzhou covering 500KM in 2hours. D trains does the same in 2hrs 50min.

Zhengzhou to Xuzhou/Xuzhou east D trains are in operation covering 364KM in 3hours.

From Xuzhou East to Shanghai Hongqiao, Jinghu PDL is available even Zhengzhou-Shanghai D train use this line. 626KM is covered in 4hrs 10min.

So a D train from Xian to Shanghai could cover 1490KM in 10hours. But travelchinaguide.com is showing there is no D train from Xian to Shanghai and the fastest available train to Xian from Shanghai is Z94/91 covering 1500KM approx in 14hrs.

And is there any parallel 310KMPH line (operational speed) u/c b/w Zhengzhou and Xuzhou or the existing line will remain as Island of 200KMPH?
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Old December 28th, 2011, 10:19 AM   #3327
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I note a general lack of high speed through trains.

Consider Shanghai-Guangzhou. Connecting two greatest cities of China and the world. High speed railway has existed all the way between Guangzhou and Nanjing since 2009, and to Shanghai since 2010.

Still no direct high speed connection. On Guangzhou-Wuhan high speed railway, G trains cover the distance in 3:33 - but not a single G or D train continues beyond Wuhan! Absolutely all trains past Wuhan go on old line and take 10:15 or more to Wuhan alone. Then there is the 200 km/h railway Wuhan-Hefei-Nanjing. D trains travel Wuhan-Shanghai in 5:10 - but not a single one of them continues beyond Wuhan.

It should be possible to travel on high speed rails Shanghai-Wuhan-Guangzhou in under 9 hours. Yet the fastest direct train Shanghai-Guangzhou is T100, taking 15:57 on old lines.

What is getting done about it?
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Old December 28th, 2011, 06:25 PM   #3328
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Quote:
China bullet train crash 'caused by design flaws'

China's cabinet has received the official report into the crash

A bullet train crash which killed 40 people in China in July was caused by design flaws and sloppy management, the Chinese government says.

Almost 200 people were injured in the crash near the south-eastern city of Wenzhou.

"Missteps" by 54 officials led to the disaster, the long-awaited official report says.

The crash led many Chinese to accuse the government of putting development and profit before safety.

It also triggered a wave of popular anger against officials who were accused of trying to cover up the seriousness, and causes, of the crash.

Lightning strike
After receiving the report, China's cabinet criticised the railways ministry for lax safety standards and poor handling of the crash, according to Reuters.

Premier Wen Jiabao was presented with the official investigation's conclusions at a cabinet meeting on Wednesday.

The accident occurred after one train stalled following a lightning strike, and then a second high-speed train ran into it. Four carriages were thrown off a viaduct.

The report found that serious design flaws in control equipment and improper handling of the lightning strike led to the crash.

More serious penalties could follow for some of the 54 officials criticised in the report.

Among the officials singled out was the former railways minister, Liu Zhijun, who was sacked before the crash, accused of corruption.

Liu "has the main leadership responsibility for the accident," the report says.

Following the accident, the authorities called a temporary halt to new high-speed rail projects and placed speed restrictions on trains.

High-speed ambitions
China had planned to lay 16,000km (10,000 miles) of high-speed track by 2015, which would make it the biggest high-speed rail network in the world.

It had hoped to make its rapidly developing railway technology an export success: Chinese train companies were aspiring to compete with Germany's Siemens and Canada's Bombardier by selling their technologies to foreign companies.


China aspires to export its high-speed rail technology
But after July's crash that looks less likely.

The railways ministry said on Friday that it planned to invest 400 billion yuan ($63bn; £40bn) in infrastructure construction in 2012, which is lower than the figure for this year.

The current minister, Sheng Guangzu, said that rapid railway development should be maintained, as it "plays an important role in the country's social and economic development, especially in boosting domestic demand," according to the Chinese government's website.
I think, two bold parts are the significant parts. This old minister guy is finished, general policy does not change.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #3329
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so has the new Shenzhen-Guangzhou HSR opened? I don't see scheduled trains to Shenzhen North on the English-language timetables in cnvol.com or travelchinaguide.com.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 10:31 PM   #3330
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Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
so has the new Shenzhen-Guangzhou HSR opened? I don't see scheduled trains to Shenzhen North on the English-language timetables in cnvol.com or travelchinaguide.com.
Yes, it has.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 01:45 AM   #3331
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The timetable and remaining tickets info does show up on the official ticket booking site 12306.cn, but that's only in Chinese.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 05:40 AM   #3332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
I note a general lack of high speed through trains.

Consider Shanghai-Guangzhou. Connecting two greatest cities of China and the world. High speed railway has existed all the way between Guangzhou and Nanjing since 2009, and to Shanghai since 2010.

Still no direct high speed connection. On Guangzhou-Wuhan high speed railway, G trains cover the distance in 3:33 - but not a single G or D train continues beyond Wuhan! Absolutely all trains past Wuhan go on old line and take 10:15 or more to Wuhan alone. Then there is the 200 km/h railway Wuhan-Hefei-Nanjing. D trains travel Wuhan-Shanghai in 5:10 - but not a single one of them continues beyond Wuhan.

It should be possible to travel on high speed rails Shanghai-Wuhan-Guangzhou in under 9 hours. Yet the fastest direct train Shanghai-Guangzhou is T100, taking 15:57 on old lines.

What is getting done about it?
This looks to be another important D train missing link. Though one can say Wuhan, Zhengzhou, Xuzhou plays hub and transit role, but still there should be one or two direct service to main cities.

If I am correct Guangzhou-Shanghai have there high speed routes.

1. Guangzhou-Zhuzhou-Xiangtang-Jinhua-Hangzhou-Shanghai - present prime route and which is upgraded to 200KMPH. It takes 15hrs 57min for 1818KM with T trains.

2. Wugang PDL 310KMPH line, Wuhan-Hefei-Nanjing south 250KMPH new line, From Nanjing south Jinghu PDL - 1069KM+827KM = 1896KM, So 6hrs+6hrs 30min - Close to 13hours is needed for D train.

3. Shanghai-Xiamen, Xiamen-Shenzhen under construction and Shenzhen-Guangzhou - 1123KM+502KM+147KM = 1772KM - 8hr 35min+3hrs (projected)+1hr 20min - 13hrs approx for D train.

And 4th route would be under construction Shanghai-Kunming line intersecting at Changsha? If this u/c line have 310KMPH operational speed, then Shanghai-Guangzhou travel with G train will come down to 7hours.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 05:56 AM   #3333
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High-speed rails to circle Hainan

Last Updated:2011-12-29
Source:Xinhua

Hainan, the tropical Chinese resort island, will start the construction of a high-speed railway on its western coast next year, authorities said. The new rails, dubbed the Western Ring Railway, is planned to link up with the Eastern Ring Railway, which started operation a year ago, and form a circuit around the island. Construction at the first section of the new Western Ring, which links up with the Phoenix Airport and the tourist city of Sanya, is scheduled to start in February. However, for the rest of the sections, construction may begin in the latter half of 2012, according to a statement issued Wednesday at a meeting held by the Ministry of Railways and Hainan province.

The Western Ring, which is expected to cost 27.1 billion yuan ($4.3 billion) and require four years, will stretch 344 kilometers and pass 12 stations along the island's western coast. Trains will travel at a maximum speed of 250 km per hour.

High-speed rails have greatly boosted tourism in Hainan, said Jiang Dingzhi, deputy Party chief of the province. According to Jiang, nearly 10 million tourists have traveled by the Eastern Ring since it started operation in December 2010. The 308-kilometer railway links the capital Haikou at the northern end of the province to Sanya, a tourist city in the south.

image hosted on flickr

Map of Hainan West Ring high speed
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Old December 29th, 2011, 08:01 AM   #3334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
I note a general lack of high speed through trains.

Consider Shanghai-Guangzhou. Connecting two greatest cities of China and the world. High speed railway has existed all the way between Guangzhou and Nanjing since 2009, and to Shanghai since 2010.

Still no direct high speed connection. On Guangzhou-Wuhan high speed railway, G trains cover the distance in 3:33 - but not a single G or D train continues beyond Wuhan! Absolutely all trains past Wuhan go on old line and take 10:15 or more to Wuhan alone. Then there is the 200 km/h railway Wuhan-Hefei-Nanjing. D trains travel Wuhan-Shanghai in 5:10 - but not a single one of them continues beyond Wuhan.

It should be possible to travel on high speed rails Shanghai-Wuhan-Guangzhou in under 9 hours. Yet the fastest direct train Shanghai-Guangzhou is T100, taking 15:57 on old lines.

What is getting done about it?
The preferred Shanghai-Guangzhou route is the future Southeast Coastal PDL, which is currently under construction and is expected to be completed by the end of next year. Since the line between Wuhan and Nanjing is only 250km/h rated, that's probably why there are no G trains travel through that section. Right now even if there are direct train between Shanghai and Guangzhou it'd be a D train, and the long journey is simply not competitive compare to air travel.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #3335
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Since the line between Wuhan and Nanjing is only 250km/h rated, that's probably why there are no G trains travel through that section. Right now even if there are direct train between Shanghai and Guangzhou it'd be a D train, and the long journey is simply not competitive compare to air travel.
There is a direct D train between Beijing and Fuzhou, namely D365. It covers Beijing South-Hangzhou in 9:26 - 7:50 to 17:16. Then it continues to Fuzhou in 5:25 - the fastest D trains are 5:13.

Total being 14:53 - from 7:50 to 22:43. Somehow it is competitive with air travel.

Fastest train Shanghai-Wuhan is D3006/D3007, taking 5:11. D train Wuhan-Guangzhou takes 5:57.

A direct D train Shanghai-Guangzhou should be feasible in slightly over 11 hours. It should be competitive with air, considering that the nearly 15 hour Beijing-Fuzhou train is.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:19 AM   #3336
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Well right now most flights from Shanghai Hongqiao to Guangzhou is about 2 hours 40 minutes, so even with security check in time it's still almost three times as fast as current HSR solution.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #3337
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Well right now most flights from Shanghai Hongqiao to Guangzhou is about 2 hours 40 minutes, so even with security check in time it's still almost three times as fast as current HSR solution.
Yes, but what are most flights from Beijing to Fuzhou?
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Old December 31st, 2011, 01:15 AM   #3338
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Beijing-Fuzhou flight is the same at 2 hr 40 min. The fact is that the Beijing-Fuzhou direct D train is not competitive neither, that's why there are so few direct D trains on that route. The first direct Beijing-Fuzhou train was D371 which started on Feb 5th 2010, and service stopped two months later on April 13th 2010 due to low ticket sales. The service was reintroduced in July 2011 along with the new timetable. I believe it's part of the MOR's new directive to provide more long distance trains at a lower price. That train journey is so long because the 200km long Hangzhou-Ningbo section has a 140km/h speed limit, and it stops at more major cities than other services, with multiple 10 minute stops, and it stops at Shanghai for 25 minutes.

The full price of a Beijing-Fuzhou flight is RMB 1500, but most airline tickets are heavily discounted in China so realistically you can get one for RMB 800-900, which is still higher than the RMB 690 D train second class seat price, but not by much. The D train's first class seat is RMB 985, the cheapest sleeping train ticket is almost RMB 1200. Regarding why there is no Shanghai-Guangzhou D train, maybe MOR decided it makes financial sense not to extend the loss beyond the current Beijing-Fuzhou service. For me I don't mind that there is no direct Shanghai-Guangzhou service at all, at least not until the Southeast Coastal PDL is completed.

Last edited by hmmwv; December 31st, 2011 at 01:28 AM.
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Old December 31st, 2011, 05:49 AM   #3339
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More than end to end passengers. Beijing-Fuzhou D train will serve intermediate passengers going to Hangzhou, Ningbo, Fuzhou from Shandong/North of Jiangsu province.
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Old December 31st, 2011, 07:28 PM   #3340
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That train journey is so long because the 200km long Hangzhou-Ningbo section has a 140km/h speed limit, and it stops at more major cities than other services, with multiple 10 minute stops, and it stops at Shanghai for 25 minutes.
Yet D365 is the fastest D train Beijing-Shanghai out of the 4 day trains.
The next, D315, for some reason, stops at:
Tianjin South for 13 minutes
Cangzhou West for 13 minutes
Taian for 8 minutes
Zhaozhuang for 16 minutes
Xuzhou East for 11 minutes
Dingyuan for 9 minutes
Zhenjiang South for 12 minutes
Changzhou North for 14 minutes
Wuxi East for 17 minutes
Suzhou North for 19 minutes.

If these all were cut to 2 minutes, that would save 112 minutes.
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