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Old January 6th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #3361
Stainless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
In my country you can go to a machine and buy a ticket with your debit card or cash, in about a minute.

In China i had to stand in line for an hour.

That is the point i am trying to make.

Really, you need to be able to take constructive criticism.
I had this problem, the queues were huge for both. But someone next to me swiped theirs and it wasn't a problem getting on the train without that card. Not sure if this has changed though.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #3362
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Exactly. They could use passport number, visa number, whatever.
Most passports use RFID chips these days anyway. Therefore technically it should not be a problem to accept such passports at ticket machines. For example, I can pass the border check using automatic biometric passport readers in some UK airports and not have any contact with border security staff. They can easily do that in Chinese railway stations. This is rather hard to understand because there are no technical or any other reasons whatsoever not to accept foreign passports.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #3363
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In the US you don't need to present your ID when purchasing train tickets, but that's not the point, I understand why MOR require people to match ID with tickets in China due to the ticket gouging problem. The issue here is that compare to European or Japanese HSR systems, it's very inconvenient for foreigners to buy CRH ticket. For example at Shanghai Station instead of going straight into the automatic ticket hall to buy ticket from the kiosk. I have to drag my luggage about 300m, cross a street via underground passageway, and then waiting in line for 20 minutes alongside people who are there fighting to get a refund of their normal train tickets. By the time I reach the window it only took two to three minutes to actually buy the ticket, the agent just input my passport number into the computer and that's it. If they can access the system that way, why not allow passengers to book tickets online at 12306.cn or at the kiosks by putting in their nationality and passport number ourselves?

Quote:
Most passports use RFID chips these days anyway.
My 2006 US passport doesn't have RFID.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 01:00 AM   #3364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
In the US you don't need to present your ID when purchasing train tickets, but that's not the point, I understand why MOR require people to match ID with tickets in China due to the ticket gouging problem. The issue here is that compare to European or Japanese HSR systems, it's very inconvenient for foreigners to buy CRH ticket. For example at Shanghai Station instead of going straight into the automatic ticket hall to buy ticket from the kiosk. I have to drag my luggage about 300m, cross a street via underground passageway, and then waiting in line for 20 minutes alongside people who are there fighting to get a refund of their normal train tickets. By the time I reach the window it only took two to three minutes to actually buy the ticket, the agent just input my passport number into the computer and that's it. If they can access the system that way, why not allow passengers to book tickets online at 12306.cn or at the kiosks by putting in their nationality and passport number ourselves?

My 2006 US passport doesn't have RFID.
May happen for 2006 passports. But post 2008 or so passports mostly have them. My passport is from 2008 and it applies to most countries be it India or France. They carry such little sign on the front page:


By now it's a standard. It doesn't take much to order a new passport anyway if you think you could benefit from it.

By any means they should allow biometric passport holders to use the ticket machines. Or even type their name and passport number manually for everyone else. What's the big deal?
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Old January 7th, 2012, 02:26 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
May happen for 2006 passports. But post 2008 or so passports mostly have them. My passport is from 2008 and it applies to most countries be it India or France. They carry such little sign on the front page:


By now it's a standard. It doesn't take much to order a new passport anyway if you think you could benefit from it.

By any means they should allow biometric passport holders to use the ticket machines. Or even type their name and passport number manually for everyone else. What's the big deal?
Many passports do not have these chips. Many passports still need another 5 or 10 years before they will be renewed and replaced by passports with the chips.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 03:21 AM   #3366
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Many passports do not have these chips. Many passports still need another 5 or 10 years before they will be renewed and replaced by passports with the chips.
It doesn't take much (or cost much) to change a passport to a new one.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 04:58 AM   #3367
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Why are there passport checks when buying CRH tickets? I can understand a safety check (screening luggage, as they do in Spain and at the Eurostar terminals), but a passport check doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Anyone can tell me why?
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:03 AM   #3368
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Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Why are there passport checks when buying CRH tickets? I can understand a safety check (screening luggage, as they do in Spain and at the Eurostar terminals), but a passport check doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Anyone can tell me why?
I think it's to curb the vendor abuse: there was this really big problem in that these people would buy a LOT of train tickets and resell them at higher values when the seats are sold out. Having your passport as confirmation obviously makes it much harder to pull off these kind of stunts.

I'm glad that China's taking the steps to reduce corruption and thievery in their system. Go China!
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Old January 7th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #3369
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
... ..., you need to be able to take constructive criticism.
Constructive criticism are welcome all the time.

Frankly, IMHO ... ...

In China, they are still generally rather backward in terms of designing good cloud based software applications.
Most people in China who have the resources (the wealthy & the powerful) are seriously lacking innovative out of the box thinking to support any out of the box software developing no-name (academically not famous) startups.

These inside the box people in China only have the intellectual capacity to invest in idiotic fields such as real estate or garlic or red wine.

This fact above (inside the box investors) is causing a long term ulcer for the Beijing central government.
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Last edited by Mika Montwald; January 7th, 2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #3370
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Well I disagree about cloud based software, many Chinese companies such as Sina, Tencent, or Kingsoft have some of the best cloud based applications. Having said that, most Chinese government websites are utterly POS, take 12306.cn as an example, it didn't even carry the MS authentication license so it gets blocked by IE for many people, and it has to provide a link so you can download the license manually.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #3371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL
Why are there passport checks when buying CRH tickets? I can understand a safety check (screening luggage, as they do in Spain and at the Eurostar terminals), but a passport check doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Anyone can tell me why?
To neutralize ticket scammers?
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Old January 7th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #3372
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Quote:
I think it's to curb the vendor abuse: there was this really big problem in that these people would buy a LOT of train tickets and resell them at higher values when the seats are sold out. Having your passport as confirmation obviously makes it much harder to pull off these kind of stunts.
Why is this a problem? What does CRH care who buys the tickets as long as they are sold? Ticket scalpers exist when the face value of a ticket is lower than the market value of a ticket. It's easy for scalpers to buy low and sell high. If the scalpers misjudge the situation and buy too many tickets, they lose a lot of money. No need for Big Brother to start requiring real name tickets, just float the ticket prices to market value.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #3373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Why is this a problem? What does CRH care who buys the tickets as long as they are sold? Ticket scalpers exist when the face value of a ticket is lower than the market value of a ticket. It's easy for scalpers to buy low and sell high. If the scalpers misjudge the situation and buy too many tickets, they lose a lot of money. No need for Big Brother to start requiring real name tickets, just float the ticket prices to market value.
Maybe CRH tickets are (partly?) refundable?
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:11 AM   #3374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Why is this a problem? What does CRH care who buys the tickets as long as they are sold? Ticket scalpers exist when the face value of a ticket is lower than the market value of a ticket. It's easy for scalpers to buy low and sell high. If the scalpers misjudge the situation and buy too many tickets, they lose a lot of money. No need for Big Brother to start requiring real name tickets, just float the ticket prices to market value.
What are you talking about?? Scalping is illegal, period. How can you defend smt like that.

Real name tickets are norm everywhere and I don't see any problem with that.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:18 AM   #3375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Why is this a problem? What does CRH care who buys the tickets as long as they are sold? Ticket scalpers exist when the face value of a ticket is lower than the market value of a ticket. It's easy for scalpers to buy low and sell high. If the scalpers misjudge the situation and buy too many tickets, they lose a lot of money. No need for Big Brother to start requiring real name tickets, just float the ticket prices to market value.
Why is it a problem? Because people are paying more for their ticket than they should be... and eventually these people will no longer accept this and in the best case start killing scalpers, in the worst case start rioting.

Scalping is illegal, it's of no benefit to the train travelers or society... i really can not believe you are defending it. Are you part of a scalping family?
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:59 AM   #3376
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The Chinese railway network is still large a public service project, ticket scalpers are utterly hated in China because they prey on mostly migrant workers and deprive them the rights of going home at a reasonable price. I think it's absolutely essential to enforce the current practice of pegging tickets with identity, I just hope they make it possible for the ticketing system to accept foreign passport numbers. It shouldn't cause they any significant amount of investment because it's largely a software change.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 03:50 AM   #3377
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The Chinese railway network is still large a public service project, ticket scalpers are utterly hated in China because they prey on mostly migrant workers and deprive them the rights of going home at a reasonable price. I think it's absolutely essential to enforce the current practice of pegging tickets with identity, I just hope they make it possible for the ticketing system to accept foreign passport numbers. It shouldn't cause they any significant amount of investment because it's largely a software change.
Not to be rude or anything but PRC is still ruled by a communist party which will want to control the flow the public in general.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 04:58 AM   #3378
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Not to be rude or anything but PRC is still ruled by a communist party which will want to control the flow the public in general.
Yes, they control it by building 10,000 km of new high speed railway lines while, not to be rude or anything, the USA is democratic and they haven't laid a single meter of rail.

Oh right... the oil companies do the controlling in the US by lobbying Congress NOT to build things.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist that. )
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:18 PM   #3379
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Not to be rude or anything but PRC is still ruled by a communist party which will want to control the flow the public in general.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #3380
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Yes, they control it by building 10,000 km of new high speed railway lines while, not to be rude or anything, the USA is democratic and they haven't laid a single meter of rail.

Oh right... the oil companies do the controlling in the US by lobbying Congress NOT to build things.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist that. )
Actually, it is planned to reach around 16,000km quite soon.
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