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Old January 9th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #3381
hmmwv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Actually, it is planned to reach around 16,000km quite soon.
I think at the end of 2011 the total mileage has already reached around 10,000km, when all the planned HSR lines are opened in 2012 it should be over 13,000km.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 07:17 AM   #3382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I think at the end of 2011 the total mileage has already reached around 10,000km, when all the planned HSR lines are opened in 2012 it should be over 13,000km.
Correct. However, it will continue to increase beyond 2012.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 08:18 AM   #3383
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What are you talking about?? Scalping is illegal, period. How can you defend smt like that.
Quote:
Why is it a problem? Because people are paying more for their ticket than they should b
Quote:
The Chinese railway network is still large a public service project, ticket scalpers are utterly hated in China because they prey on mostly migrant workers and deprive them the rights of going home at a reasonable price.
Critical thinkers go beyond the "it's illegal" argument and analyze the situation. There is a principle in economics that when two parties voluntarily exchange goods, both benefit. It seems like migrants are willing to pay higher prices for the tickets, otherwise the scalpers would lose money. In economics, the consumer surplus is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay and what they actually pay. The scalpers are extracting all of the consumer surplus from the migrants for themselves. It's like when a foreigner tries to bargain in China, you know they are getting a higher price than a Chinese citizen. That is because the seller knows the foreigner is willing to pay a higher price than the citizen and adjusts the price accordingly. The foreigner may grumble about fairness but in the end, the transaction is voluntary.

The problem with subsidies is they benefit every user, not just the intended poor migrants, leading to a lot of waste. Poor migrant workers benefit from the subsidy, but so do the well-off middle class and millionaires. More over, subsidies are easy targets for arbitrage. Arbitrage is when the same product has different prices in different markets. In the case of CRH ticket scalping, the different markets are the different times at which the ticket is purchased. Arbitrage involving government taxes or subsidies always punishes the government.

A better option would be to allow CRH to price tickets to maximize profit, then funnel those profits into other more targeted social welfare programs.
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Not to be rude or anything but PRC is still ruled by a communist party which will want to control the flow the public in general.
This isn't wrong. The Hukou system of urban residency permits exists to prevent migrant workers from settling permanently in the cities. Migrants without the residency permit cannot enjoy government services like education for their children. Do forumers think that the Ministry of Public Security will not be monitoring ticket sales to look for suspicious patterns? To look for wanted suspects? Of course they will, just as American security agencies monitor airline ticket sales. Real name train tickets are another method of control.

Last edited by Geography; January 9th, 2012 at 02:51 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #3384
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It seems that train D365 is between Beijing and Shanghai passed by 12 G trains Beijing-Shanghai:
G11
G31
G107
G109
G111
G1
G113
G115
G33
G13
G117
G119
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Old January 9th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #3385
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interesting video, I'm sorry, it's has nothing to do with CRH.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzQwOTA3NTA4.html


one year ago.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjI2MTU0Mzcy.html

Last edited by HunanChina; January 9th, 2012 at 04:58 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #3386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Critical thinkers go beyond the "it's illegal" argument and analyze the situation. There is a principle in economics that when two parties voluntarily exchange goods, both benefit. It seems like migrants are willing to pay higher prices for the tickets, otherwise the scalpers would lose money. In economics, the consumer surplus is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay and what they actually pay. The scalpers are extracting all of the consumer surplus from the migrants for themselves. It's like when a foreigner tries to bargain in China, you know they are getting a higher price than a Chinese citizen. That is because the seller knows the foreigner is willing to pay a higher price than the citizen and adjusts the price accordingly. The foreigner may grumble about fairness but in the end, the transaction is voluntary.
Migrant workers who save up to see their family once a year are more interested in going home, not abstract consumer surplus theory. In econ-speak, this means the scalpers impose a negative externality on consumers, which is remedied by prohibiting scalpers.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 12:42 AM   #3387
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Geography, you are correct about the subsidized price will benefit all walks of life, rich and poor. But that's the characteristics of a public project, it provide equal opportunity for every member of the society. As long as MOR is still entirely funded by tax payers they have the obligation to ensure everyone has the same opportunity to buy tickets. If one day MOR has introduced the same level of outside funding as Chinese airline industry has, they can start to look into ways to earn more profit.

Regarding real name tickets system of course the system can be used to monitor population movement, and recently it has helped the police to narrow down the whereabouts of a bank robber. But that is by no means its primary function, unlike the system employed by the DHS. The notion that the Chinese government wants to use the system to control population movement is absurd, the best way to control movement is not providing the means of movement in the first place, not building one of the world's best transportation network.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 03:05 AM   #3388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Critical thinkers go beyond the "it's illegal" argument and analyze the situation. There is a principle in economics that when two parties voluntarily exchange goods, both benefit. It seems like migrants are willing to pay higher prices for the tickets, otherwise the scalpers would lose money. In economics, the consumer surplus is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay and what they actually pay. The scalpers are extracting all of the consumer surplus from the migrants for themselves. It's like when a foreigner tries to bargain in China, you know they are getting a higher price than a Chinese citizen. That is because the seller knows the foreigner is willing to pay a higher price than the citizen and adjusts the price accordingly. The foreigner may grumble about fairness but in the end, the transaction is voluntary.

The problem with subsidies is they benefit every user, not just the intended poor migrants, leading to a lot of waste. Poor migrant workers benefit from the subsidy, but so do the well-off middle class and millionaires. More over, subsidies are easy targets for arbitrage. Arbitrage is when the same product has different prices in different markets. In the case of CRH ticket scalping, the different markets are the different times at which the ticket is purchased. Arbitrage involving government taxes or subsidies always punishes the government.

A better option would be to allow CRH to price tickets to maximize profit, then funnel those profits into other more targeted social welfare programs.
Not to be rude, but if this is all you have learnt from your economic classes at the university or college, then you better get a full refund for your money.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
This isn't wrong. The Hukou system of urban residency permits exists to prevent migrant workers from settling permanently in the cities. Migrants without the residency permit cannot enjoy government services like education for their children. Do forumers think that the Ministry of Public Security will not be monitoring ticket sales to look for suspicious patterns? To look for wanted suspects? Of course they will, just as American security agencies monitor airline ticket sales. Real name train tickets are another method of control.
Well, where have you been for the last 15 years? Stuck in the ice age!
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Old January 10th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #3389
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There certainly exist direct trains which travel some distance on 200 km/h railways at 160 km/h and then continue on 250 km/h railways at 200 km/h. For example the direct trains Beijing-Taiyuan, which use 200 km/h Beijing-Shijiazhuang line and 250 km/h Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan line.

Is there any serious technical reason why direct trains could not travel on a 350 km/h line at 300 km/h and then slow down to 200 km/h on a 250 km/h line?
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Old January 10th, 2012, 04:50 PM   #3390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
There certainly exist direct trains which travel some distance on 200 km/h railways at 160 km/h and then continue on 250 km/h railways at 200 km/h. For example the direct trains Beijing-Taiyuan, which use 200 km/h Beijing-Shijiazhuang line and 250 km/h Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan line.

Is there any serious technical reason why direct trains could not travel on a 350 km/h line at 300 km/h and then slow down to 200 km/h on a 250 km/h line?
No. Actually the Beijing South–Tanggu train travels at 300 km/h between Beijing South and Tianjin and up to 160 km/h between Tianjin and Tanggu.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 05:23 PM   #3391
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Members of a railway policewoman security squad head for a high-speed train at Wuhan Railway Station in Wuhan, capital of central China's Hubei Province, Jan. 8, 2012. Made up of eight policewomen at an average age of 26, the squad is the first of its kind to undertake on-the-train security duties along the Wuhan-Guangzhou High-Speed Railway. Starting from Sunday, China's transport system, including its high-speed railway, entered a 40-day period of intensive passenger flow around the time of the Spring Festival. Every member on the policewoman squad will go through a 60,000-kilometer railway journey during the Spring Festival travel rush. (Xinhua/Cheng Min)

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Old January 11th, 2012, 01:19 AM   #3392
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Originally Posted by thyrdrail View Post
umm...maybe they are just not good enough for the amount of money they have to spend to build the system. if you going to spend billions, why not get the best quality?
Nah...I think it ultimately came down to cost. The Japanese trains were cheaper.

*Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamicanes View Post
Not at all. It just proves that at the moment the plans were being finalized a few years ago, it ended up being cheaper or more expedient to just buy the trains from Japan.

Remember, even if you "have" the technology, you can't just snap your fingers and have a factory ready to manufacture trains using it appear overnight. It takes years to go from first prototype to production-ready train. That's the hardest thing for any engineer to try explaining to salespeople, who never seem to grasp that just because you have something in front of them that "sort of" works (with team of engineers standing behind the curtain, working furiously to keep it from crashing and burning) does not mean you have something yet that you can actually take and start using in the real world. Ten years from now, the rail systems buying trains from Japan today will probably be buying cheaper and better ones from China.
^ I second that
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Old January 11th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #3393
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Not to be rude, but if this is all you have learnt from your economic classes at the university or college, then you better get a full refund for your money.
Then it should be very easy to show where I go wrong. But you do not show where I go wrong. instead, you follow that up with another personal attack, saying I'm "stuck in the ice age." Please, explain where I go wrong. I don't even know what to think of your post, what exactly are you criticizing?

Think of this another way. What if you buy a ticket then change your plans and no longer need it? A real-name ticket prevents you from reselling it, or even giving it away for free to a friend! That is stupid. What if you had made an appointment with a barber, changed your mind, and couldn't give the appointment to your friend because it could only be used by the original scheduler?
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Old January 11th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #3394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Then it should be very easy to show where I go wrong. But you do not show where I go wrong. instead, you follow that up with another personal attack, saying I'm "stuck in the ice age." Please, explain where I go wrong. I don't even know what to think of your post, what exactly are you criticizing?

Think of this another way. What if you buy a ticket then change your plans and no longer need it? A real-name ticket prevents you from reselling it, or even giving it away for free to a friend! That is stupid. What if you had made an appointment with a barber, changed your mind, and couldn't give the appointment to your friend because it could only be used by the original scheduler?
In that event, you would simply go for a refund. Not go and resell your ticket for 10-20 times the original price when tickets are sold out during the Spring festival.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #3395
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So, a G train travels Beijing-Nanjing in 3:39.
A D train travels Nanjing-Wuhan in 3:40.

A direct train might travel Beijing-Wuhan on high speed lines in under 7:30.

The fastest Z train travels Beijing-Wuhan on a slow speed line in 9:40.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #3396
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The conventional Z trains doesn't take that much longer than using D and G trains is because it uses a different, more direct route (Beijing-Guangzhou Railway), and it can go up to 160km/h on that line. The G trains use Beijing-Shanghai HSR, then Nanjing-Wuhan HSR, the total distance is greater.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:33 AM   #3397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv
The conventional Z trains doesn't take that much longer than using D and G trains is because it uses a different, more direct route (Beijing-Guangzhou Railway), and it can go up to 160km/h on that line. The G trains use Beijing-Shanghai HSR, then Nanjing-Wuhan HSR, the total distance is greater.
Yeah...I've been searching for some clear, list of train routes.
That was such a pain when buying my tickets at the station...I couldn't really see the routes.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 05:28 AM   #3398
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Maintenance of China's CRH high-speed trains

Last Updated: 2012-01-11
en.ce.cn

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Workers of the Guangzhou Railway Corporation check the high-voltage power module of a CRH high-speed train at a maintenance center in Changsha, capital of central China's Hunan Province, late Jan. 9, 2012. Dubbed "wingless aeroplanes" for their high speed, China's CRH trains require precise maintenance to ensure their smooth running: timing for the maintenance process of a 200-meter train is measured with minute-level accuracy. Each CRH train is sent to the maintenance center for a rudimentary inspection after running for 48 hours or covering a distance of 4,000 kilometers. Maintenance workers have to tighten up about 3,000 screws for the train's running gear alone. But prior to detailed inspection and maintenance, workers need to make a technical diagnosis using data retrieved from a "black box" installed on the train which keeps record of the train's operating status. "Normally we check six trains each day; nine during the Spring Festival travel rush in the previous year," said Liu Yonghua, director of the CRH train maintenance center in Changsha. "The maintenance time of each train is controlled within three and a half hours before the train is back in service without malfunctions."

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CRH high-speed trains go through maintenance processes at a maintenance center, owned by Guangzhou Railway Corporation, in Changsha, late Jan. 9, 2012.

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A CRH high-speed train pulls into the garage of a maintenance center, owned by Guangzhou Railway Corporation, in Changsha, late Jan. 9, 2012.

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A staff member of the Guangzhou Railway Corporation keeps record of the maintenance of a CRH high-speed train at a maintenance center in Changsha, late Jan. 9, 2012.

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Staff members of the Guangzhou Railway Corporation carry out their duties at the command center of a CRH train maintenance center in Changsha, late Jan. 9, 2012.

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Workers of the Guangzhou Railway Corporation analyse the operating data of a CRH high-speed train at a maintenance center in Changsha, late Jan. 9, 2012.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #3399
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That would be a cool job ^_^
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Old January 14th, 2012, 03:36 PM   #3400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
... ... A real-name ticket prevents you from reselling it, or even giving it away for free to a friend! That is stupid. ... ...


It is totally dimwit to think and write the statement above.

China MoR should have adopted real-name ticketing system a long, long, long time ago for all class of passenger trains.
The real-name ticketing system saves tons of resources and headaches for everyone.


Sorry, off - topic a bit.

Similarly, all Weibo accounts in all China should have adopted real-name user account a.s.a.p. too.
Every posters on Weibo must be accountable for their postings.
There is no more time to waste.



We can not afford to have malicious (CIA sponsored) rumors mongers agents operating behind the scenes to sabotage China from within.
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