daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:05 PM   #3761
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
It's a waste of valuable space. Having two sets of space (waiting hall and platforms) but only one fully occupied at any time is just silly. Even allowing platform-access without time constraints, the platforms would still be nowhere near as crowded as a typical metro platform, and the need for the waiting hall would be vastly diminished.
I don't agree with your point at all, platform shouldn't be a place for passengers to wait for trains, that's waiting room's purpose. The platform allows passengers to line up before the train arrives so boarding can be done efficiently. Regardless whether the platforms are full you'll need that many tracks to handle the number of trains going through the station, so how can platforms be a waste of space? I'd hate to going to a station with both platforms and waiting rooms fully occupied, that shows the station is at capacity and lacking any room for growth or traffic spikes (both are crucial for China).

Also compare with Western countries Chinese HSR passengers are still rather new to the thing and still retain many bad habits. If you give people unlimited access to the platform then everybody will flock to the platform, running around trying to find the train, and rushing to every train that arrives. The fact that people still arrive an hour early at the HSR station shows it'll take years for them to become as sophisticated as European or Japanese HSR riders. Maybe only at that time you can build HSR stations in China similar to Western ones, but for now the current station design is the best fit for China's unique environment.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:54 PM   #3762
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Also compare with Western countries Chinese HSR passengers are still rather new to the thing and still retain many bad habits. If you give people unlimited access to the platform then everybody will flock to the platform, running around trying to find the train, and rushing to every train that arrives. The fact that people still arrive an hour early at the HSR station shows it'll take years for them to become as sophisticated as European or Japanese HSR riders. Maybe only at that time you can build HSR stations in China similar to Western ones, but for now the current station design is the best fit for China's unique environment.
Shin-Osaka station was on the first HSR of Japan. Yet it was and still is quite small.

When the Chinese people get more sophisticated, how can the existing HSR stations be used more efficiently?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #3763
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,211
Likes (Received): 1779

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I don't agree with your point at all, platform shouldn't be a place for passengers to wait for trains, that's waiting room's purpose. The platform allows passengers to line up before the train arrives so boarding can be done efficiently. Regardless whether the platforms are full you'll need that many tracks to handle the number of trains going through the station, so how can platforms be a waste of space? I'd hate to going to a station with both platforms and waiting rooms fully occupied, that shows the station is at capacity and lacking any room for growth or traffic spikes (both are crucial for China).

Also compare with Western countries Chinese HSR passengers are still rather new to the thing and still retain many bad habits. If you give people unlimited access to the platform then everybody will flock to the platform, running around trying to find the train, and rushing to every train that arrives. The fact that people still arrive an hour early at the HSR station shows it'll take years for them to become as sophisticated as European or Japanese HSR riders. Maybe only at that time you can build HSR stations in China similar to Western ones, but for now the current station design is the best fit for China's unique environment.
Oh alright then ...
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #3764
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Shin-Osaka station was on the first HSR of Japan. Yet it was and still is quite small.

When the Chinese people get more sophisticated, how can the existing HSR stations be used more efficiently?
As Chinese people become more sophisticated they will learn the following:
1. Plan your trip and arrive at the station just in time, not a hour before departure.
2. Follow signs and staff members' directions to efficiently pass security check and to the appropriate waiting area.
3. Understand the two ticket gate system to locate the one corresponding to your car number.
4. Familiarize with the automatic ticketing gate so it doesn't become a bottleneck.
5. Able body use stairs as much as possible, leave escalator space for people with luggage, people with large luggage or elders should use the accessibility elevator.
6. Once on the platform quickly locate the correct line for your car, don't run around aimlessly or push to get to the front of the line.
7. Once onboard learn to use the large luggage compartment instead trying to lift a 100lb bag overhead, don't block the isle.

If all Chinese riders can observe those simple tips then those stations will become much more efficient. Traffic will inevitably grow in the coming years, more people will use the system resulting in more 16 car trainsets and higher frequency. Eventually the waiting room will become very full, at which time the station may allow more people onto the platform, probably passengers for the next two trains can be checked through ticketing gate and on the platform. That's only possible if the public can behave themselves, otherwise when the first train arrives everybody will just flock to it like in a metro station. I'm optimistic that the public will reach that level of civility in about five years, so stations like Hongqiao can serve passengers efficiently for many years to come.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #3765
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
As Chinese people become more sophisticated they will learn the following:
1. Plan your trip and arrive at the station just in time, not a hour before departure.


If all Chinese riders can observe those simple tips then those stations will become much more efficient. Traffic will inevitably grow in the coming years, more people will use the system resulting in more 16 car trainsets and higher frequency. Eventually the waiting room will become very full,
If the passengers learn to plan their trips and arrive in station in time, they may arrive when the platform is already open, and pass straight to the platform without stopping in the general waiting room.

Could the general waiting rooms become empty even though the traffic is growing?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #3766
elianzoom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 120
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
It's a waste of valuable space. Having two sets of space (waiting hall and platforms) but only one fully occupied at any time is just silly. Even allowing platform-access without time constraints, the platforms would still be nowhere near as crowded as a typical metro platform, and the need for the waiting hall would be vastly diminished.
I think security is a key thing on all this HSL stations design, you have several controlled acess to the trains.
Keeping separated the waiting room from the platforms allows you to control with much more efficiency all the passengers movements, security itīs a key thing today, in each control point youīre check and filmed so the redundancy of the system works for the global security, itīs at least my oppinion.
elianzoom no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #3767
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

Adding one point:

I was back Shanghai taking G141. From my observation HSR platform is a very dangerous place to stay at without strict control. Seriously some non-stop HSR train running at +300km/h can easily blow wind gust to throw people down and cause damage if they stand close to the yellow line.
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #3768
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 382

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
As Chinese people become more sophisticated they will learn the following:
1. Plan your trip and arrive at the station just in time, not a hour before departure.
2. Follow signs and staff members' directions to efficiently pass security check and to the appropriate waiting area.
3. Understand the two ticket gate system to locate the one corresponding to your car number.
4. Familiarize with the automatic ticketing gate so it doesn't become a bottleneck.
5. Able body use stairs as much as possible, leave escalator space for people with luggage, people with large luggage or elders should use the accessibility elevator.
6. Once on the platform quickly locate the correct line for your car, don't run around aimlessly or push to get to the front of the line.
7. Once onboard learn to use the large luggage compartment instead trying to lift a 100lb bag overhead, don't block the isle.

If all Chinese riders can observe those simple tips then those stations will become much more efficient. Traffic will inevitably grow in the coming years, more people will use the system resulting in more 16 car trainsets and higher frequency. Eventually the waiting room will become very full, at which time the station may allow more people onto the platform, probably passengers for the next two trains can be checked through ticketing gate and on the platform. That's only possible if the public can behave themselves, otherwise when the first train arrives everybody will just flock to it like in a metro station. I'm optimistic that the public will reach that level of civility in about five years, so stations like Hongqiao can serve passengers efficiently for many years to come.

All of these are the minor reasons. There three major reasons:

1) Future proofing. These stations are designed to service much more people than what they are servicing right now. this is an integral part of infrastructure planning.

2) The peak demand. Holiday season crowds are extreme to compared to any other place. There is nothing like it around world so most comparisons are null.

3) Security. These stations are following airport models. They waiting areas and boarding areas exactly like airports for security and control.


For me major advantage is open space and comfort. I don't like metro station look alike.

Moreover, when you look closely, many of these station are as large as their track numbers allow them. Waiting places are either below or above the tracks so their foot print is not larger than a station without them.

foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #3769
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,211
Likes (Received): 1779

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
As Chinese people become more sophisticated they will learn the following:
1. Plan your trip and arrive at the station just in time, not a hour before departure.
2. Follow signs and staff members' directions to efficiently pass security check and to the appropriate waiting area.
3. Understand the two ticket gate system to locate the one corresponding to your car number.
4. Familiarize with the automatic ticketing gate so it doesn't become a bottleneck.
5. Able body use stairs as much as possible, leave escalator space for people with luggage, people with large luggage or elders should use the accessibility elevator.
6. Once on the platform quickly locate the correct line for your car, don't run around aimlessly or push to get to the front of the line.
7. Once onboard learn to use the large luggage compartment instead trying to lift a 100lb bag overhead, don't block the isle.

If all Chinese riders can observe those simple tips then those stations will become much more efficient. Traffic will inevitably grow in the coming years, more people will use the system resulting in more 16 car trainsets and higher frequency. Eventually the waiting room will become very full, at which time the station may allow more people onto the platform, probably passengers for the next two trains can be checked through ticketing gate and on the platform. That's only possible if the public can behave themselves, otherwise when the first train arrives everybody will just flock to it like in a metro station. I'm optimistic that the public will reach that level of civility in about five years, so stations like Hongqiao can serve passengers efficiently for many years to come.
1. Ticketing needs to become more flexible - at least on the proper HSLs with regular G-trains there is plenty of capacity for this to happen.
2. Security checks are wholly unecessary. Checks are flimsy at the best of times and the staff are often rude. They are just a means for the government to provide non-jobs to the 4050s while resources would be much better utilised to provide proper jobs.
3. There only needs to be one general 'in' area within which people fine their platform. No need to over-channelise people flow.
4. That shouldn't be a problem for most people.
5. The number of escalators and lifts should respond to user expectations, not the other way round, though I think provision at most new stations is adequate.
6. That I agree with. Even though your seat is allocated and the departure time is set, some people always want to 'get there first'.
7. Yes.

Passenger behaviour aside, the most important aspects are actually station design and management. The truth is like it or not inter-city travel will become metro-like as routes become standardised and frequencies increased, so the ticketing and station entry arrangements have to change accordingly. The whole raison-etre of developing HSR is because people do not like the kefuffles at an airport and HSR can provide a truly turn-up-and-go experience. Airport-style management is a retrograde step and will not work as more train paths are filled on the lines.

At the end of the day, people have brains - if you stop depriving them of the opportunity they will start using them again. And remember, treat people like morons and they will become morons. Yes people have been treated like morons for a good few decades and there will be a transitionary period, but I'd give my fellow countrymen and women more credit than some are prepared to give. Better start the transition when the system is operating below capacity and users are fairly upper class (well that's a term used loosely).

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Adding one point:

I was back Shanghai taking G141. From my observation HSR platform is a very dangerous place to stay at without strict control. Seriously some non-stop HSR train running at +300km/h can easily blow wind gust to throw people down and cause damage if they stand close to the yellow line.
The Pendolinos fly through Watford Junction and numerous other stations along the route at 200km/h without problems. Yes that is quite a bit lower than +300km/h but space on modern HSR platforms in China are orders of magnitude more generous at Watford Junction. 'Elf n safety gawn mad' is the last thing I want happening in China, seriously.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!

Last edited by NCT; April 4th, 2012 at 06:34 PM.
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #3770
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Adding one point:

I was back Shanghai taking G141. From my observation HSR platform is a very dangerous place to stay at without strict control. Seriously some non-stop HSR train running at +300km/h can easily blow wind gust to throw people down and cause damage if they stand close to the yellow line.
I've stood just a 2-3 meters away from a 300 km/h train and felt no wind strong enough to knock me down.

Putting the wind aside, there isn't any danger of trains kicking up things and injuring bystanders simply because the train runs on ballastless slab track.

The only liability is people who want to commit suicide.
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #3771
Geography
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 447
Likes (Received): 104

Quote:
Passenger behaviour aside, the most important aspects are actually station design and management. The truth is like it or not inter-city travel will become metro-like as routes become standardised and frequencies increased, so the ticketing and station entry arrangements have to change accordingly. The whole raison-etre of developing HSR is because people do not like the kefuffles at an airport and HSR can provide a truly turn-up-and-go experience. Airport-style management is a retrograde step and will not work as more train paths are filled on the lines.
I wholeheartedly agree. Airports have been so ridiculous with their very long lines and multiple security checks that people are told to arrive two to three hours before their flight for international flights. HSR stations should minimize the number of times passengers are stopped, for any reason. They could learn from metro stations. Metro riders are only "stopped" at the automatic gate. Airport passengers are stopped to check in and get their boarding pass, then the security check, then a third time at the gate.

Why can't the HSR network function like a metro, where people have a single card like a debit card that they can add value, then swipe it to get on a train and exit, with the distance calculated for the ticket price? It would be efficient and anonymous, ensuring passenger privacy.

I also agree with ending the security checks. China acts like it faces the security threat of Israel, when in reality terrorism is extremely rare in China. All those security personnel cost money, slow the system down, and add stress to passengers. How much money is spent to prevent one statistical terrorism death? In other words, if China removed all security checks on their HSR lines, how many people would die? It's a cost-benefit analysis. I would guess the cost per lived saved is in the millions of dollars--money that could be better spent on improving China's public health system that gets much more bang for the buck.
Geography no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #3772
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,211
Likes (Received): 1779

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
All of these are the minor reasons. There three major reasons:

1) Future proofing. These stations are designed to service much more people than what they are servicing right now. this is an integral part of infrastructure planning.

2) The peak demand. Holiday season crowds are extreme to compared to any other place. There is nothing like it around world so most comparisons are null.

3) Security. These stations are following airport models. They waiting areas and boarding areas exactly like airports for security and control.


For me major advantage is open space and comfort. I don't like metro station look alike.

Moreover, when you look closely, many of these station are as large as their track numbers allow them. Waiting places are either below or above the tracks so their foot print is not larger than a station without them.

You can only serve as many people as the number of platforms allow. There is still a vast oversupply of space compared to platform numbers. The waiting hall in the photo, large already, is only a fraction of the total space there.

Here are some photos I took in 2010 of other halls underneath the platforms.







Not to mention the massive station square to the west side.



Regarding peak demand - the number of trains are limited by the number of train paths available given the signalling system. On Chinese HSR tickets are strictly controlled with fairly few standing tickets issued, so the sardine can phenomenon of classic trains does not apply, and classic trains cannot call at dedicated HSR stations because only in-cab signalling is supported with the new infrastructure. By the time the HSR system is fully accessible to the general population the New Year peak will have ceased to exist, in its current form anyway.

The worst you are ever going to get is normal peak patronage which, as we both agree, is dictated by the platform number. Railway systems the world over operate at normal peak patronage all the time and they only have the amount of space they need.

Excess space does produce an economic cost, though the well-connected contractors certainly wouldn't have minded. You could have built a cheap and cheerful station and use the savings elsewhere or for reduced ticket prices. Alternatively the waiting hall could eventually be converted to retail and office use, but the design of the whole Hongqiao complex makes that prospect pretty slim, and I won't elaborate just yet.

You might not like a metro-station look-alike, the the hard truth is inter-city travel is converging to metro, and users expect it to be so. As train paths get filled no amount of space will be enough should current arrangement persist, and the only way is allowing proper turn-up-and-go.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #3773
Traceparts
Registered User
 
Traceparts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 109
Likes (Received): 74

from flickr chicagopig
image hosted on flickr
Traceparts no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #3774
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
For me major advantage is open space and comfort. I don't like metro station look alike.
I agree, I enjoy the open space and comfort of the modern HSR station too, however I try to spend as little time in the station as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Passenger behaviour aside, the most important aspects are actually station design and management. The truth is like it or not inter-city travel will become metro-like as routes become standardised and frequencies increased, so the ticketing and station entry arrangements have to change accordingly. The whole raison-etre of developing HSR is because people do not like the kefuffles at an airport and HSR can provide a truly turn-up-and-go experience. Airport-style management is a retrograde step and will not work as more train paths are filled on the lines.

At the end of the day, people have brains - if you stop depriving them of the opportunity they will start using them again. And remember, treat people like morons and they will become morons. Yes people have been treated like morons for a good few decades and there will be a transitionary period, but I'd give my fellow countrymen and women more credit than some are prepared to give. Better start the transition when the system is operating below capacity and users are fairly upper class (well that's a term used loosely).

The Pendolinos fly through Watford Junction and numerous other stations along the route at 200km/h without problems. Yes that is quite a bit lower than +300km/h but space on modern HSR platforms in China are orders of magnitude more generous at Watford Junction. 'Elf n safety gawn mad' is the last thing I want happening in China, seriously.
I agree that HSR will function like metros and some people have already adopted the idea, just look at how many people live in Suzhou or Kunshan but commute to Shanghai via the two HSR lines everyday. However most people still change get rid of the mentality and treat a hour long HSR ride as a long journey. This can only change when passengers' behavior change, and the general public fully embrace the idea of turn up and go style HSR travel.

Well I think many people in the Chinese society, especially the more affluent ones (regardless of education level), have become cry babies like Americans If you deprive them the rights to do thing their own way they will not simply use their brains to adopt the better way to do things, instead they will complain that the government is making things difficult for people. So right now the current situation is probably the only way to make everyone relatively happy.

Same can be said about safety, because all the media spotlight I think MOR is already sacred sh*tless about any potential safety weaknesses, there is no way that they dare to allow passenger to spend time on the platform especially when no one cares about the yellow line. I noticed that many Japanese HSR stations have a second barrier on the platform that only opens when the train has arrived in the station, I think in the future Chinese HSR stations can install platform screen doors to serve the same purpose. Obvious the location of the doors need to be flexible to accommodate different types of trains.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #3775
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
You can only serve as many people as the number of platforms allow. There is still a vast oversupply of space compared to platform numbers. The waiting hall in the photo, large already, is only a fraction of the total space there.

Here are some photos I took in 2010 of other halls underneath the platforms.

By the time the HSR system is fully accessible to the general population the New Year peak will have ceased to exist, in its current form anyway.
Well those are 2010 photos, now the situation is a lot different as more lines, especially the Beijing-Shanghai line has opened at Hongqiao. Also as I have mentioned earlier about Hongqiao should be a hub for passengers to transit from HSR to Pudong, so the corridors are definitely useful when that's realized. The basement has a lot more retail space now, which I think is unnecessary but the traffic in there is a lot heavier than what those pictures show. The Hongqiao complex is designed to be future proof not just as a railway station, but also the airport, and maybe eventually a maglev linking Pudong, all those will grow in the foreseeable future. I think HSR is already fully accessible to the general public, when I rode the Shanghai-Hankou D train there are plenty of migrant workers from Anhui and Hubei on board. We saw one of the largest Chunyun this year, so I don't think the peak will go away any time soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I wholeheartedly agree. Airports have been so ridiculous with their very long lines and multiple security checks that people are told to arrive two to three hours before their flight for international flights. HSR stations should minimize the number of times passengers are stopped, for any reason. They could learn from metro stations. Metro riders are only "stopped" at the automatic gate. Airport passengers are stopped to check in and get their boarding pass, then the security check, then a third time at the gate.

Why can't the HSR network function like a metro, where people have a single card like a debit card that they can add value, then swipe it to get on a train and exit, with the distance calculated for the ticket price? It would be efficient and anonymous, ensuring passenger privacy.

I also agree with ending the security checks. China acts like it faces the security threat of Israel, when in reality terrorism is extremely rare in China. All those security personnel cost money, slow the system down, and add stress to passengers. How much money is spent to prevent one statistical terrorism death? In other words, if China removed all security checks on their HSR lines, how many people would die? It's a cost-benefit analysis. I would guess the cost per lived saved is in the millions of dollars--money that could be better spent on improving China's public health system that gets much more bang for the buck.
In China HSR and metro stations have the same level of checks, once at the x-ray machine, and once at the automatic gate. Neither is a significant bottleneck except the morons who can't use the automatic gate. I agree though that passengers should be able to use their metro smart card to access HSR too. I noticed many new gates are NFC capable so many in the future also allow cellphones. Regarding security I don't think it's designed to fight terrorism, but more to prevent morons from bring dangerous material on board the train. There are so many idiots who try to bring buckets of paint thinners or hazardous chemicals into metro and train stations.

Last edited by hmmwv; April 4th, 2012 at 07:18 PM.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 07:05 PM   #3776
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,211
Likes (Received): 1779

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I agree, I enjoy the open space and comfort of the modern HSR station too, however I try to spend as little time in the station as possible.


I agree that HSR will function like metros and some people have already adopted the idea, just look at how many people live in Suzhou or Kunshan but commute to Shanghai via the two HSR lines everyday. However most people still change get rid of the mentality and treat a hour long HSR ride as a long journey. This can only change when passengers' behavior change, and the general public fully embrace the idea of turn up and go style HSR travel.

Well I think many people in the Chinese society, especially the more affluent ones (regardless of education level), have become cry babies like Americans If you deprive them the rights to do thing their own way they will not simply use their brains to adopt the better way to do things, instead they will complain that the government is making things difficult for people. So right now the current situation is probably the only way to make everyone relatively happy.

Same can be said about safety, because all the media spotlight I think MOR is already sacred sh*tless about any potential safety weaknesses, there is no way that they dare to allow passenger to spend time on the platform especially when no one cares about the yellow line. I noticed that many Japanese HSR stations have a second barrier on the platform that only opens when the train has arrived in the station, I think in the future Chinese HSR stations can install platform screen doors to serve the same purpose. Obvious the location of the doors need to be flexible to accommodate different types of trains.
I guess it is true Chinese society is on a dangerous path of becoming like American society though in its own way, with knee jerk reactions for everything left right and centre. America gets away with it for it has an overall low population density so efficienty isn't too much or an issue. China on the other hand, oh gawd help us. But I digress ...
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #3777
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,211
Likes (Received): 1779

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Well those are 2010 photos, now the situation is a lot different as more lines, especially the Beijing-Shanghai line has opened at Hongqiao. Also as I have mentioned earlier about Hongqiao should be a hub for passengers to transit from HSR to Pudong, so the corridors are definitely useful when that's realized. The basement has a lot more retail space now, which I think is unnecessary but the traffic in there is a lot heavier than what those pictures show.
The trouble with Hongqiao is that almost all passengers rely on the Metro, so that pedestrian flow is terribly linear and concentrated, which isn't helped by the linear layout of the station complex. In places like London a lot of train passengers arrive and depart by foot or by bus, so passengers disperse very quickly. Multiple tube entrances help too. King's Cross St. Pancras is an excellent example. The location of Hongqiao means arriving by foot or by bus is extremely impractical, and the surrounding motorway network puts paid to that idea completely. As for surrounding development, I'll believe it when I see it - there's certainly very little activity at the moment.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!

Last edited by NCT; April 4th, 2012 at 07:24 PM.
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #3778
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
I've stood just a 2-3 meters away from a 300 km/h train and felt no wind strong enough to knock me down.
You are a braver many than any of us....seriously, 300km/h?
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #3779
VECTROTALENZIS
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
 
VECTROTALENZIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,236
Likes (Received): 4435

I really like that the stations are almost as nice as airports with a high ceiling and open spaces so that it doesn't feel to crowded. I love how airport as they are designed to give a good impression and welcome to the city/country. It gives a grande and clean image. I remember when I arrived at Heathrow Airport in London and I got shocked how run-downed it was, it felt that I had arrived in a basement. Maybe because it was built in the 1950s, now China builds its infrastructure in the 21th century and isn't repeating the mistakes made in the past by other countries. China knows what it's doing. China applies the airport feeling with excellent design and comfort into its railports that no other countries has done. I also like that how the procedures are like the ones in an airport like check-in and waiting hall.
VECTROTALENZIS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #3780
VECTROTALENZIS
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
 
VECTROTALENZIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,236
Likes (Received): 4435

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
I guess it is true Chinese society is on a dangerous path of becoming like American society though in its own way, with knee jerk reactions for everything left right and centre.
Could you develop this statement some more?
VECTROTALENZIS no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium