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Old April 7th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #3801
chornedsnorkack
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Hangzhou rails

Now, trying to figure out the rails of Hangzhou.

4 high speed railways and at least 3 low speed railways, right? Plus metro.

Existing Shanghai-Hangzhou High Speed Railway:
from Yuhang South Station branches. One branch goes to Hangzhou East, the other to Hangzhou Station.

Nanjing-Hangzhou High Speed Railway, under construction, shall open in a known month late in 2012:
approaching Hangzhou, passes Deqi and Yuhang Stations, and terminates in Hangzhou East Station.

Hangzhou-Ningbo High Speed Railway, under construction, shall open in a known month late in 2012:
starting Hangzhou East, passes Hangzhou South and next station is Shaoxingkeqiao

Hangzhou-Changsha High Speed Railway - is it under construction, or delayed?
"starting" Hangzhou East, follows Hangzhou-Ningbo High Speed Railway to Hangzhou South;
from Hangzhou South, branches out and next station is Zhuji

Shanghai-Hangzhou Low Speed Railway:
passing Hangzhou East shared with 3 high speed railways goes to Hangzhou station shared with 1 branch of high speed railway

Hangzhou-Zhuzhou Low Speed Railway:
from Hangzhou Station goes to Hangzhou South shared with 3 high speed railways, and there meets "Xiaoyong Railway". Reaches Zhuji Station shared with Hangzhou-Changsha High Speed Railway.

What is "Xiaoyong Railway"?

Now regarding metro:
which lines shall exist in Hangzhou, and which railway stations shall they serve?

Does anyone have a map to illustrate the lines and stations?
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Old April 7th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #3802
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Hangzhou-Changsha High Speed Railway - is it under construction, or delayed?
"starting" Hangzhou East, follows Hangzhou-Ningbo High Speed Railway to Hangzhou South;
from Hangzhou South, branches out and next station is Zhuji

What is "Xiaoyong Railway"?
Hangzhou-Changsha PDL is still under construction, latest news in late March indicated viaduct girders are being installed at the Jinhua, Zhejiang section. The whole 920km line is on schedule to be opened in 2014.

Xiaoyong Railway is the conventional railway between Hangzhou (Xiaoshan) and Ningbo South.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 02:34 PM   #3803
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Shanghai-Hangzhou, Hangzhou-Ningbo and Hangzhou-Changsha high speed railways are all parallel to existing low speed railways.

Is it correct that there is no low speed railway between Hangzhou and Nanjing?

Until this autumn, Hangzhou has a single high speed railway (from Shanghai) and no metro. By the end of the Dragon Year, though, Hangzhou is due to have 3 high speed railways and metro. So what shall the network be like?

Hangzhou South railway station is now the branching point of Hangzhou-Zhuzhou and Hangzhou-Ningbo low speed railways, and shall be on Hangzhou-Ningbo high speed railway from late 2012. However, the construction of the station shall continue till 2014. Shall it be arranged without hindering traffic?
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Old April 7th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #3804
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Ha, I see, you were asking about the guys, I don't think I've seen any as a matter of fact, everyone from the janitor to the conductor have been girls. The MOR has figured out that disgruntled passengers are less likely to confront pretty girls.

Dalian's tram has one of the exceptional feature that all staffs are female, i.e. – driver, conductor, points man — even the depot manager!

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Dalian
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Old April 8th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #3805
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Is it correct that there is no low speed railway between Hangzhou and Nanjing?
That's right, there is no direct conventional railway between Nanjing and Hangzhou. In the past all express passenger traffic go through Shanghai, and freight traffic go through Xuancheng, Anhui.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #3806
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Despite the rendering, this does not look like a pedestrian friendly train station. Look at the long distances pedestrians have to walk. Where are they walking from, a parking lot or bus stop 200 meters away? Why not have buses drop people off right at the entrance? Who is going to be walking around a vast cement plaza far from the center of town?
It's a pedestrian-hostile country. Everything is geared toward bikes. The poor design of this station is not surprising.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #3807
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It's a pedestrian-hostile country. Everything is geared toward bikes. The poor design of this station is not surprising.
Are you kidding or what?
The fact that China is not trying to implement the obsolete 19th century planning ideology in its cities doesn't mean it's 'pedestrian hostile'. On the contrary: I have never seen so much space dedicated to pedestrians as I saw in Chinese cities (same, by the way, applies to Singapore). It actually is pleasant to walk there unlike in such cities like London where you feel like a sardine in a tin squeezed inbetween the buildings and street with no green or recreational spaces. Sorry but that's not the kind of planning that any sane planners in any country should pursue.

I wouldn't even starg on American urban planning here...
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Old April 8th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #3808
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Everything is geared toward bikes.
The Netherlands, perhaps. But China? I rode a bike there, and large parts of the country are completely devoid of bikepaths or anything resembling it. Couple that with an increasing love for cars, and riding a bike becomes quite hazardous.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #3809
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How quickly things change...

I was in China (Beijing) for the first and so far only time in the summer of 1995 and remember wide empty streets with hardly any cars, but millions of bicycles.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #3810
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How quickly things change...

I was in China (Beijing) for the first and so far only time in the summer of 1995 and remember wide empty streets with hardly any cars, but millions of bicycles.
I would have loved to see it then, it is full of cars now or people walking to or from subway stations. Quite a few of the remaining bikes are electric.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #3811
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Do the stewards also get new uniforms, keep their old uniforms or not exist at all?
Its a female dominated line of work, so "stewardesses" becommes the norm. Ever heard a female name for a pilots? Would that be pilotesses? Or a female word for a driver? A drivess? :p
I'm sure the idea exist, but its not the norm...

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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I wouldn't even starg on American urban planning here...
American urban planning? I'll give it a go... Apart from a few places like Manhatten, Boston, Seattle and San Fransisco, american cities are just miles upon miles of 1-2 storey buildings stretched out in a grid. The maximum 1 square kilometer in the middle with some highrises and skyscrapers don't really count, as the streets there are mostly empty (with a few exceptions), and has no vibrant life around them. When americans are outside their van's, they are in a fast food place eating, and when they go outside, they prefer a huge 2 square mile parking lot to a hundred meter park. As if the car-smell was any better than the taste of fresh air.

Edit: Chinese cities aren't all glam and modern either though. Singapore and Shanghai is remarkable, and some of the other cities are comming after in their footsteps too. But time will tell if the Shenzhen idea of a city works well, and if the excessive roadwidth in Beijing does it well. I have my doubts!

Last edited by Bannor; April 8th, 2012 at 09:58 PM.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 09:47 PM   #3812
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double post
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Old April 8th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #3813
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I've lived in America and been to Asia several times as well and in my opinion, at least as far as pedestrians or bicyclists are concerned, there is nothing better than the old traditional European model. It has stood the test of time for centuries and there is no evidence of it being outdated.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:31 PM   #3814
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I've lived in America and been to Asia several times as well and in my opinion, at least as far as pedestrians or bicyclists are concerned, there is nothing better than the old traditional European model. It has stood the test of time for centuries and there is no evidence of it being outdated.
The difference being that your average Chinese city is perhaps 10x bigger than your average European city.

Of course it would be ideal to have cities like Munich all around... but China needs solutions for cities which are 10-20 million in population, not 0.5-2 million.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:41 PM   #3815
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Are you kidding or what?
The fact that China is not trying to implement the obsolete 19th century planning ideology in its cities doesn't mean it's 'pedestrian hostile'. On the contrary: I have never seen so much space dedicated to pedestrians as I saw in Chinese cities (same, by the way, applies to Singapore). It actually is pleasant to walk there unlike in such cities like London where you feel like a sardine in a tin squeezed inbetween the buildings and street with no green or recreational spaces. Sorry but that's not the kind of planning that any sane planners in any country should pursue.

I wouldn't even starg on American urban planning here...
Yes, but you are thinking in terms of an aimless tourist walking in a park. For an average person on a specific journey between A and B excess space = excess distance to walk.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:49 PM   #3816
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Yes, but you are thinking in terms of an aimless tourist walking in a park. For an average person on a specific journey between A and B excess space = excess distance to walk.
For an average person, space means more room for expansion, no need to bump into other people and get pushed around.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:56 PM   #3817
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The difference being that your average Chinese city is perhaps 10x bigger than your average European city.
Hardly.
Quote:
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Of course it would be ideal to have cities like Munich all around... but China needs solutions for cities which are 10-20 million in population, not 0.5-2 million.
China has an abundance of cities which are 0,5-2 million. China needs solutions for those cities, too.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 12:02 AM   #3818
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Yes, but you are thinking in terms of an aimless tourist walking in a park. For an average person on a specific journey between A and B excess space = excess distance to walk.
This is where well planned and efficient public transport steps in. Heavy rail (metro) + light rail + buses that has to reach every major urban development. China is still in a process of doing that. If you want to see how this works in practice, again, look Singapore.

And the excess space you're describing here is a myth. There is no such thing. In London's case you would simply have it filled with lowrise 'huts' that would fill all the space. So the difference is that you'll be walking on a cramped pedestrian sidewalk surrounded by such houses and street whereas in China you'll be walking in a park, open green space or something of the sort with highrise buildings and street further away from you with much more space left for pedestrians. The total distance to the metro or a bus stop remains the same.

What I mean by that

A:


B:


Have you ever tried getting fast to a bus stop or a tube station via a cramped mini-highstreet in London? I usually resort walking on the STREET (i.e. where the cars go) to be able to walk faster (although that is dangerous) because there is litteraly no space on the pedestrian area. You can observe similar scenes in the City (i.e. the central CBD) of London. This is beyond absurd. Unless you're into fetish of being squeezed, pushed and being stepped on. There are no such problems in the Chinese cities we're discussing. You can walk at your pace and easily predict your timing of getting to your destination.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 12:18 AM   #3819
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As far as really big cities are concerned you can look at New York, London or Paris, but the poster above me is also right - China has hundreds of cities between half a million and 2 millions.

From my perspective it's a bit sad to see that so much history has been swept away so quickly and easily in East Asia. China in particular is a very old culture, but one could easily miss it by visiting its cities. No way you could in Rome.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #3820
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More space means access to amenities is more sparce. Total distance to bus stops clearly isn't the same when block sizes are far bigger and crossing points much further apart, and nowhere in China has yet the urban rail station density matching the City of London.

In the photos above, if I wanted to grab a quick bite to eat there would plenty of choice on the doorstep in photo A and I'd be pretty much fooked in photo B. In the City of London there are plenty of alleyways that are either pedestrianised or shared surface that are easily walkable. If you are constantly being squeezed or bumped into by people I think you need to improve on your walking skills. Some places might be cramped, but street to platform is easily doable in 5 minutes at Liverpool Street Station at the height of PM peak. Hongqiao station? No chance.
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