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Old May 12th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #381
big-dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuddel Knutsch View Post
considering how huge china is this map is ---well---showing that still a lot has to be done.
I see one big problem: usually trains are able to compete with aircraft at distances up to 800 km, if you take TGV or ICE trains, that go up to 350 km/h in regular service. If the distances are bigger, the aircraft is unbeatable faster.
Looking at how big china is, it will need a system "above" all that HSR.

A businessman wont take a train form Shanghai to Beiging even if it goes 300 or 350, because then you`ll still travel 3-3.5 hours compared to an hour by plane.
And Shanghai-Beijing is not even the longest distance in China, its acutally only mediocre.....

I cant understand why they dont build maglev trains at a large scale.
Bejing Shangha in 1:45h, at 550km/h with todays technology......
And they wouldnt need to buy planes from the US and EU and Oil from Iran.....
I would rather take a 3.5-hour CRH rather than a 1.5-hour flight, considering the time travelling to/from airport, luggage checking-in/out, airplane takingoff/landing and the lousy flight meal.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #382
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more pics

New CRH


D96 Nanchang-Hangzhou; Mom and daughter on D532, Beijing-Tianjin


D460 Shanghai-Suzhou


Revolving seats and Diaper changing


Microwave and seats


Restroom


Newspapers and dining carriage
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Old May 12th, 2007, 08:24 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuddel Knutsch View Post
considering how huge china is this map is ---well---showing that still a lot has to be done.
I see one big problem: usually trains are able to compete with aircraft at distances up to 800 km, if you take TGV or ICE trains, that go up to 350 km/h in regular service. If the distances are bigger, the aircraft is unbeatable faster.
Looking at how big china is, it will need a system "above" all that HSR.

A businessman wont take a train form Shanghai to Beiging even if it goes 300 or 350, because then you`ll still travel 3-3.5 hours compared to an hour by plane.
And Shanghai-Beijing is not even the longest distance in China, its acutally only mediocre.....

I cant understand why they dont build maglev trains at a large scale.
Bejing Shangha in 1:45h, at 550km/h with todays technology......
And they wouldnt need to buy planes from the US and EU and Oil from Iran.....
Judging behavior in China by western standards can be quite misleading. I agree that the rich chinese businessmen will probably fly in the same style as western businessmen but there is a vast traveling population of government employees will probably all travel by train because it is so much cheaper. I am reminded of a comment made to me when I was on a technology transfer mission in china almost twenty years ago and I was surprised at the long rollout schedules for our project. The project leader said
Quote:
Remember, we have to have train 1,000,000 civil servants first!
They would all have traveled by train to their training centers.

As to MagLev for long distances at 550 km/h. That solution will probably not feasible in China and widespread speed increases in rail travel to more than 250 km/h are also fairly unlikely in China. The problem is energy!!!! During my last visit to China, ten years ago, we were briefed that China needed five more projects with the generation capacity of the Yangtze river dam just too keep up with the growing demand for energy.

Remember that the power required to over come aerodynamic drag increases with the cube of the speed of the train, irrespective of whether it is MagLev or steel wheel on rail. I suspect that the Chinese railways will be very cautious at the rate of spread of high speed trains beyond 200 km/h.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 08:27 PM   #384
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Thank You for the translation, Big-dog
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Old May 12th, 2007, 08:31 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
Thank You for the translation, Big-dog
You are welcome.

There's a cooler CRH map on CRH map
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Old May 12th, 2007, 09:40 PM   #386
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thanks for the map---btw, the Shanghai Hangzhou line is missing...is it because they are undecided about the Transrapid there?
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Old May 12th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #387
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burning fuel, like on domestic flights is also an energy issue.

You are right, that the main problem of HSR is the air drag above 250 km/h, but the other question is, where the enregy comes from.
A high speed train uses about 5 MW energy at cruising speed. (300-350)
Thats as much as the biggest wind power generater from the german firm repower produces...
IMO it would be much better to have a big windpark with 100 of these and HSR than domestic flights, which are known for their unefficiency...
But your right, maybe 550 km/h is not really necessary, when it comes to the broad mass of people....
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Old May 12th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #388
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I agree that Domestic avaiation is not fuel efficient anywhere! China has hugh sources of wind power in the deserts to the north and west. However they need the power in the south and east and the problem lies with the transmission grid which is so weak in China that they are transporting coal by train from the coal fields to power stations located near the energy consummers.

My suspicion is that the availablity of aviation gas may actually be constraining the growth of air travel in China.
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Last edited by Trainman Dave; May 12th, 2007 at 10:35 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
You are welcome.

There's a cooler CRH map on CRH map
Thank you. Unfortunately I am away from a high speed connection so I have not seen this map yet. Hopefully next week
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Old May 12th, 2007, 10:30 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pflo777 View Post
btw, the Shanghai Hangzhou line is missing...is it because they are undecided about the Transrapid there?
Absolutely not! The Shanghai <> Hangzhou is the first stage of the Shanghai <> Guangzhou high speed connection so, no matter what happens with MagLev, there will always be Shanghai <> Hangzhou railway line operating at a minimum of 200 km/h
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Old May 13th, 2007, 02:06 AM   #391
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Train travels without CRH
Yangzhou rail station




















Taizhou rail station




































pics by bwm
from www.hasea.com
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Last edited by Jiangwho; May 13th, 2007 at 11:55 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 04:44 AM   #392
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VVVV, I have a moderately fast internet connection and your last post took more 10 minutes to down load. Please compress these images or delete the less important images.

Where are Yangzhou and Taizhou?
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Old May 13th, 2007, 04:46 AM   #393
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Its still down loading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please respect those of us with less than very high speed internet connections

You could delete 2 out of 3 of these photos and provide very useful info without tying up our internet connections
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Old May 13th, 2007, 05:31 AM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post

VVVV, I have a moderately fast internet connection and your last post took more 10 minutes to down load. Please compress these images or delete the less important images.

Where are Yangzhou and Taizhou?
Agreed, VVVV this is a CRH thread, please post more CRH pictures. Thx.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 08:43 AM   #395
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Hmm. . . the interior of these old Chinese trains look better than I expected.

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Old May 13th, 2007, 12:11 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post

VVVV, I have a moderately fast internet connection and your last post took more 10 minutes to down load. Please compress these images or delete the less important images.
Excuse me. I have just seen your request. I have deleted half of the pics. hope you can see the rests now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
Where are Yangzhou and Taizhou?
in the map you are able to find both yangzhou and taizhou nearby Nanjing
http://cms.westport.k12.ct.us/cmslmc...a/yangzhou.htm


Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Agreed, VVVV this is a CRH thread, please post more CRH pictures. Thx.
IMO This is not only a CRH thread. the sixth rail speed raise is not only about CRH, but some other type trains as well. sure CRH is a series of stars in this event. I will try to post some CRH pics. cheers.
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Last edited by Jiangwho; May 13th, 2007 at 12:26 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 12:10 AM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zergcerebrates View Post
Hmm. . . the interior of these old Chinese trains look better than I expected.
They are renovated. Also, production of conventional passenger cars continues, so the newer ones will have better interiors.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 12:20 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuddel Knutsch View Post

Democracy is like having Sex:
If its good, its very good.
If its not so good its still good.

John Kenneth Galbraith, Economist.
Lovers want to have sex.
Rapists also want to have sex.

Kelvin Yang, Scientist



Last edited by kelvinyang; May 14th, 2007 at 03:42 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 04:17 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
You are welcome.

There's a cooler CRH map on CRH map
I have been trying to display this map with out success.

I have eliminated connection speed and ".swf" format. I suspect that the trouble may well be the character set.

Could you save it, without animation, as a .jpg?
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Old May 14th, 2007, 06:01 PM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
I have been trying to display this map with out success.

I have eliminated connection speed and ".swf" format. I suspect that the trouble may well be the character set.

Could you save it, without animation, as a .jpg?
It's an animation so I don't know how to save it to .jpg , the url is

http://channel.rednet.cn/news/xw/yudan/tisu1.swf

Can other guys access it?
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