daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:24 PM   #4241
bearb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 810
Likes (Received): 617

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Will it be HSR, and if so, what speed?

It seems to bypass Guangzhou: will Guangzhou have it's own HSR connection towards Maoming?
200km/h-250km/h and operates with cargo service

according to the plan there will also be a branch divert from Jiangmen to Guangzhou via Foshan (maoming east - shenzhen north direction)

yay i found a plan though it is a bit weird

Last edited by bearb; July 22nd, 2012 at 02:29 PM.
bearb no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 24th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #4242
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

I think it's more appropriate to discuss this news in this thread, from the article it seems that the speed increase is across the board, that's a lot more widespread than I had anticipated. Having said that, a 20km/h bump will hardly make any difference in short haul routes such as Shanghai-Nanjing or Beijing-Tianjin.

Quote:
Top speeds on the mainland's high-speed rail network, cut in the wake of a fatal crash a year ago, are set to be increased by 20km/h - a move that has divided academics.
The crash on July 23 in Wenzhou , Zhejiang , which killed 40 people and injured 172 others, forced the government to lower the top speed of high-speed trains from 350km/h to 300km/h.



Professor Wang Mengshu , a key drafter of the blueprint for developing high-speed railways, said the Ministry of Railways had told its subsidiaries to prepare for increased speed limits.

"High speed lines operating at 300km/h at the moment will speed up to 320km/h, and the same increase will be applied on lines operating at 200km/h," said Wang, who works at Beijing Jiaotong University.

The move could reduce travelling times between Beijing and Shanghai by about half an hour. Trial runs have already started on some lines.

Wang said the proposal was being evaluated by experts and that if the results of test runs were satisfactory, the new speed limit would be implemented across the mainland.

He said one reason for the move was that the Wenzhou accident last year had nothing to do with the speed at which trains travel. However, a more important reason, he said, was that a relatively small increase would once again make the mainland's high-speed trains the world's fastest.

"We don't want to go back to 350km/h for now," Wang said. "Running at that high a speed would put a huge stress on our rail lines and trains, accelerating their ageing and raising the cost of maintenance. But 320km/h, according to our calculations, is affordable and economical. It will also restore our position as No1."

Critics say the mainland has not learned the lessons of the crash.

Professor Zhao Jian , an economist also at Beijing Jiaotong University, said that though the Wenzhou accident was caused by a series of weather, technical and human mishaps, it had revealed the root cause of all the problems in the mainland's high-speed programme was speed itself.

"The biggest problem of China's high-speed rail programme is the irrational pursuit of high speed," he said.

From the construction of rail lines to the manufacturing of bullet trains, the integration of control software bought from different countries, the evaluation of the safety of signalling equipment, the setting of operating speeds and the training of drivers and traffic controllers, the authorities had been rushing to accomplish in just a few years what developed countries such as Japan and Germany had taken decades to achieve, Zhao said.

"China doesn't need trains running at 350km/h or higher. For passenger service, 200km/h is enough because anything more than that is a waste of energy and too much of a luxury to the low-income population who are in the most desperate need of the service," he said.

Zhao said some government officials had realised the problem after the accident and had admitted privately that they had made a mistake. The 350km/h standard is longer being stipulated in the construction of some new lines but officials have never admitted that in public.

"It's all about face," he said.

What happened on the night of the Wenzhou crash remains a mystery, even though, more than five months after the crash, the State Council released a 78-page report by independent investigators.

It said heavy lightning struck the line between the Yongjia and Wenzhou stations, melting a fuse in the Wenzhou station's traffic control system. That meant a computer could no longer judge correctly whether there was a train on the line or not, and it reported there was not, with a green signal showing on traffic controllers' monitors.

However, the computer of a train running on the line detected something had gone wrong, automatically forcing the train to a stop. Its driver radioed the traffic control centre but his wireless communication equipment had also been crippled by the lightning strikes. For nearly eight minutes, he lost contact with the control centre and could not start the train.

Seeing that everything was fine on their monitors, train controllers let another train set off. They only re-established communication with the first train half a minute before the crash and realised that something had gone seriously wrong. But when they tried to warn the driver of the second train, the radio communication was interrupted in the middle of the transmission and never re-established. The second train ran into the rear of the first at a speed of about 83km/h.

The investigation report did not explain why the traffic control system had detected the melting of a fuse but continued beaming "green" signals, saying only that some important documents related to the design of the equipment had been lost. That prompted speculation that the mainland's designers had not fully understood the various software programs they had bought from different overseas vendors and combined hastily to meet government deadlines.

Experts say the crash could have been avoided.

Wang said many train controllers were fresh graduates from university with little experience of working on railways and relied too much on computers and instrument readings when making decisions. Even though the controllers in Wenzhou had received reports of abnormalities from maintenance workers on the line after the lightning strikes, they still believed what they saw on their computer screens. If they had radioed the second train soon after losing contact with the first, the crash could have been avoided, he said.

Yang Wanzhi , a spokesman for the China Railway (SEHK: 0390) Signal & Communication Corporation, which designed and produced the defective traffic control equipment, said it had taken steps to improve safety after the crash but the work had not yet been finished. The key was to ensure that no signalling products would send a "green" signal when they experienced malfunctions.

Wang said the ministry had set up courses at more than 30 universities to train drivers and traffic controllers. After the accident, stricter quality standards were also imposed on suppliers of high-speed-railway equipment to ensure that only the highest quality equipment would be used on the lines and trains.

The railway industry is keen to rebuild its image.

During negotiations with the Thai government early this year, a representative of the Chinese railway industry encountered Japanese counterparts trying to sell Japanese technology to the Thais, Wang said.

"When the Japanese told the Thais that Chinese trains were not safe because we had the accident last year, we felt angry but had few words to fight back with," he said. "Our investigative report had emphasised equipment failure too much, because it was a rare and remediable issue."

The central government's ambitious blueprint for the development of the high-speed rail networks remains unchallenged. Even though exports of high-speed-rail technology have suffered since the accident, the construction of high-speed rail lines continues apace.

The ministry will spend more than 500 billion yuan this year to complete more than 6,000 kilometres of rail line - more than half of it high-speed. The the Ministry of Science and Technology has also begun work on designing trains with a top speed of 500km/h.

[email protected]
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 05:19 AM   #4243
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,956
Likes (Received): 18218

I doubt a train slowing down to 70 km/h would fare any better in a crash. The problem is the lack of a safety culture and management issues arising from the pursuit of fast growth. The builders and operators were looking to beat records, rather than to safety transport passengers.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 06:54 AM   #4244
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,659
Likes (Received): 5777

Zhengzhou East Station

source: http://henan.huanqiu.com/yaowen/zixu...335169421.html











Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 07:50 AM   #4245
Peloso
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Away from Macaronia
Posts: 1,175
Likes (Received): 247

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I doubt a train slowing down to 70 km/h would fare any better in a crash. The problem is the lack of a safety culture and management issues arising from the pursuit of fast growth. The builders and operators were looking to beat records, rather than to safety transport passengers.
Speed has nothing to do with the Wenzhou crash. The crash happened because of some device on the line that started to give false readings after being hit by lightning. It is not even known if such device is only used on high speed lines. In any case, I'd hardly call this a "record-seeking" type of problem. Of course "safety culture" is hard to establish, and "management issues" always "arise from fast growth". On the other hand, old Europe can only dream to have this kind of worries, while it has to content itself with accidents and mismanagements due to sheer deregulation.
__________________
Save Italy, fight the Macaroni
E(xtinction)=m(afia)c(reeps)²
Peloso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #4246
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,956
Likes (Received): 18218

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Speed has nothing to do with the Wenzhou crash. The crash happened because of some device on the line that started to give false readings after being hit by lightning. It is not even known if such device is only used on high speed lines. In any case, I'd hardly call this a "record-seeking" type of problem. Of course "safety culture" is hard to establish, and "management issues" always "arise from fast growth". On the other hand, old Europe can only dream to have this kind of worries, while it has to content itself with accidents and mismanagements due to sheer deregulation.
The record-seeking was to build the fastest line at the shortest time. Local government officials can take the credit and move up the ladder with these grandiose projects. During the process, certain things were overlooked, such as safety.

I believe the equipment was not properly tested before the line opened, and the backup considerations not adequately assessed. Thunderstorms are common in that part of China, and this scenario should have been considered and addressed.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #4247
George08
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 175
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post

Wonderful.


Is this station part of the Beijing - Gunagzhou high speed rail?
George08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 11:44 AM   #4248
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

There it is, the real reason:
>was that a relatively small increase would once again make the mainland's high-speed trains the world's fastest.

It had better be accompanied by a record for 'The World's Safest'
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #4249
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

once again here they come with their need for wienerelongination.... seriously, to be the first?

NEWSFLASH you would only TIE with the french....
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 02:26 PM   #4250
maldini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 766
Likes (Received): 75

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
nice station. anybody know what the space in front of the station used for?
Probably they will build some shopping malls or hotels.
maldini no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #4251
everywhere
The Explorer
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,129
Likes (Received): 805

Mixed used development?

China to form high-speed railway network by 2015
(Shanghai Daily, July 25)

Quote:
BEIJING, July 25 (Xinhua) -- China will have established a high-speed railway network covering almost all its cities with a population of more than 500,000 by 2015, according to a latest official program.

The State Council, or China's cabinet, late Tuesday issued a plan for building a comprehensive transportation network during the 2011-2015 period.

According to the plan, China should basically complete the construction of a high-speed railway network with a total operating length of more than 40,000 kilometers by the end of 2015. Analysts expect China's railway equipment manufacturing industry will see rapid growth.
more: http://www.shanghaidaily.org/article...a.asp?id=85249
__________________
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Winston Churchill (1874-1965), former British prime minister
everywhere no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #4252
[email protected]
Global Citizen
 
R@ptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 4,303
Likes (Received): 6410

Does anyone have a recent map which shows the entire HSR network in China at the moment?
R@ptor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #4253
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,659
Likes (Received): 5777

Quote:
Originally Posted by George08 View Post
=Wonderful.


Is this station part of the Beijing - Gunagzhou high speed rail?
Yes, Zhengzhou appears to be on the Shijiazhuang-Wuhan leg of the above-mentioned HSR line.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #4254
yaohua2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 453
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Does anyone have a recent map which shows the entire HSR network in China at the moment?
The answer depends on how you define the term "HSR network".

Currently 300 km/h trains only run on the following lines:
• Beijing–Tianjin: 117 km
• Beijing–Shanghai: 1318 km
• Wuhan–Guangzhou–Shenzhen: 1070 km
• Zhengzhou–Xi'an: 457 km
• Nanjing–Shanghai–Hangzhou: 466 km
• Plus Maglev Longyang Road–Pudong Airport; Total: 3460 km
yaohua2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #4255
Peloso
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Away from Macaronia
Posts: 1,175
Likes (Received): 247

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The record-seeking was to build the fastest line at the shortest time. Local government officials can take the credit and move up the ladder with these grandiose projects. During the process, certain things were overlooked, such as safety.
Your data is wrong. The Ningbo–Taizhou–Wenzhou Railway, were the accident occurred, is NOT one of the fastest lines (maximum speed allowed only 250 km/h) and was built in 4 years, hardly fast for 282 km of railway. How do you know safety was of little concern in its building? Have you read something somewhere specifically about this line? Could you post the link? Do you know for sure the device at fault was specially made for this line? Do you know for sure its design defects have to do with haste, and not, say, with inexperience (like the damped wheels that caused the well-pondered, slowly-developed German ICE's accident)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I believe the equipment was not properly tested before the line opened, and the backup considerations not adequately assessed. Thunderstorms are common in that part of China, and this scenario should have been considered and addressed.
Saying "I believe" is one thing, being categorical as you were in all your other claims, is another.
__________________
Save Italy, fight the Macaroni
E(xtinction)=m(afia)c(reeps)²
Peloso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 11:20 PM   #4256
George08
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 175
Likes (Received): 6

map

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch...igh-Speed_.png
George08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #4257
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

Interesting thing is that the media now reports that the speed reduction was carried out after the Wenzhou accident. While in fact is was carried out (or announced) before that and had nothing to do with the accident. In fact, noone ever clarified why exactly it was carried out (probably a number of reasons, most realistic of which being cost cutting) but it is a rather good example of how media reporting can be completely inaccurate or even outright false.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2012, 05:47 AM   #4258
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 382

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
once again here they come with their need for wienerelongination.... seriously, to be the first?

NEWSFLASH you would only TIE with the french....
What is impressive about Chinese network is the average speed which is close to top speed since trains can go at max speed almost all the time.
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #4259
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,956
Likes (Received): 18218

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Interesting thing is that the media now reports that the speed reduction was carried out after the Wenzhou accident. While in fact is was carried out (or announced) before that and had nothing to do with the accident. In fact, noone ever clarified why exactly it was carried out (probably a number of reasons, most realistic of which being cost cutting) but it is a rather good example of how media reporting can be completely inaccurate or even outright false.
I recall from the news reports I've seen that the speed reduction was to reduce operating costs since the network hasn't been profitable.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #4260
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by George08 View Post
Wonderful.

Is this station part of the Beijing - Guangzhou high speed rail?
Yes. This station is part of the Wuhan-Zhengzhou and Zhengzhou-Shijiazhuang leg of the Beijing-Guangzhou line.

It is also part of the Xi'an-Zhengzhou line.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium