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Old September 26th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #4481
China Hand
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Zhengzhou East to Wuhan Schedules just posted to http://www.chinatrainguide.com

Here are most:

Train Number, Departing Station
Time of Departure, Arriving Station
Time of Arrival, Trip Elapsed Time, Distance in km, 2nd Class Price/1st Class Price in Yuan

WUHAN
G538/G535 Zhengzhou
07:05 Wuhan
09:19 2h14m 545 245/294

G650/G647 Zhengzhou East
08:00 Wuhan
10:18 2h18m 545 245/294

G541 Zhengzhou East
08:37 Wuhan
10:48 2h11m 536 234/280

G543 Zhengzhou East
09:50 Wuhan
12:01 2h11m 536 234/280

G834/G831 Zhengzhou East
10:48 Wuhan
12:47 1h59m 536 234/280

G641 Zhengzhou East
10:55 Wuhan
13:00 2h5m 536 234/280

G73 Zhengzhou East
11:10 Wuhan
13:16 2h6m 536 234/280

G531 Zhengzhou East
11:20 Wuhan
13:29 2h9m 536 234/280

G838/G835 Zhengzhou East
12:14 Wuhan
14:20 2h6m 536 234/280

G643 Zhengzhou East
12:50 Wuhan
14:58 2h8m 536 234/280

G533 Zhengzhou East
13:53 Wuhan
16:14 2h21m 536 234/280

G824/G821 Zhengzhou
14:00 Wuhan
15:56 1h56m 545 245/294

G842/G839 Zhengzhou
15:00 Wuhan
17:07 2h7m 545 245/294

G545 Zhengzhou East
15:45 Wuhan
17:56 2h11m 536 234/280

G846/G843 Zhengzhou
16:38 Wuhan
18:42 2h4m 545 245/294

G547 Zhengzhou East
17:12 Wuhan
19:14 2h2m 536 234/280

G858/G855 Zhengzhou East
17:40 Wuhan
19:46 2h6m 536 234/280

G854/G851 Zhengzhou East
18:19 Wuhan
20:23 2h4m 536 234/280

G645 Zhengzhou East
19:28 Wuhan
21:33 2h5m 536 234/280

SHENZHEN
G73 Zhengzhou East
11:10 Shenzhen North
18:32 7h22m 1707 633/759
**Take any train to Guangzhou South and just get on the next shuttle to Shenzhen as trains run every 30/45 minutes.

GUANGZHOU SOUTH
G541 Zhengzhou East
08:37 Guangzhou South
15:12 6h35m 1605 599/719

G543 Zhengzhou East
09:50 Guangzhou South
16:30 6h40m 1605 599/719

G834/G831 Zhengzhou East
10:48 Guangzhou South
16:59 6h11m 1605 599/719

G73 Zhengzhou East
11:10 Guangzhou South
17:52 6h42m 1605 599/719

G838/G835 Zhengzhou East
12:14 Guangzhou South
18:32 6h18m 1605 599/719

G545 Zhengzhou East
15:45 Guangzhou South
22:16 6h31m 1605 599/719

G547 Zhengzhou East
17:12 Guangzhou South
23:40 6h28m 1605 599/719

Last edited by China Hand; September 26th, 2012 at 03:17 PM.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #4482
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Note that while Zhengzhou-Guangzhou South is served by 11 trains daily, these take between 6:11 and 6:42.

None of them is an express.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #4483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Note that while Zhengzhou-Guangzhou South is served by 11 trains daily, these take between 6:11 and 6:42.

None of them is an express.
259.6 kph just not quick enough for you, eh?

Think about what an express train would mean and its implementation.

Please post your solution to running an express train on that line.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #4484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George08 View Post
It looks like the old Xi'an station in the video
Is there supposed to be a brand new Xi'an station for CRH services? It sounds like the train engineer blasts the horn several times while leaving the station. It doesn't look like there are any road crossings, maybe just to warn people in the station area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Interesting video, I think the information announcement is somewhat uniform across CRH services, however the welcome message and introduction of the train is unique to each railway bureau IMO. That kind of long introduction would never worked on intercity services such as Shanghai-Nanjing, by the time it's done the train will be pulling into Kunshan Station already.
I like how the girl calls out the numbers in English. It was interesting to hear music for so long after the announcements since they were pretty long. Shanghai-Nanjing announcements from what I've seen in videos are short and sweet, no music or other soothing elements. I like that different railway bureaus do things slightly different.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #4485
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@FM2258

The Xi'an North Railway Station (Chinese: 西安北站; pinyin: Xī'ānběi​ Zhn) is a railway station of Zhengxi Passenger Railway and Xibao Passenger Railway. The station located in Weiyang District of Xi'an City (the capital of Shaanxi Province of China). It is some 10 km north of the city center and the "old" Xi'an Railway Station.
The station has 34 platforms. It is the largest train station in Northwest China.
The station is connected to downtown Xi'an by Line 2 of Xi'an Metro.
The station was opened on January 11, 2011.

As of May 2012, Xi'an North Station is served only by the fast (G-series and D-series) trains running on the Zhengzhou–Xi'an High-Speed Railway; one of them continues south to Hankou. All other passenger trains serving Xi'an (including the D-series trains west to Baoji) run from Xi'an Railway Station, just north of downtown. This is likely to change once the Xi'an–Baoji High-Speed Railway (currently under construction) is completed.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #4486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
259.6 kph just not quick enough for you, eh?

Think about what an express train would mean and its implementation.

Please post your solution to running an express train on that line.
Simple.
On the direction Shenzhen-Wuhan, there are 12 G trains daily.
This includes 7 non-express trains Shenzhen-Wuhan numbered G1012 to G1024, trip time 4:47 (G1024) to 5:11 (G1020), and 2 non-express trains Shenzhen-Xian (G822/G823, 4:48 Shenzhen-Wuhan) and Shenzhen-Zhengzhou (G74, 5:01 Shenzhen-Wuhan).
But also 3 express trains G1002 to G1006, trip time 4:11 (G1004) to 4:13 (both the others).

My solution?

In addition to the 14 G trains continuing from Changsha-Wuhan to Wuhan-Zhengzhou (G74, 7 G5xx trains and 6 G8xx trains - none of them expresses) continue the 3 existing expresses 1002 to 1006 to Zhengzhou.
And make them expresses nonstop between Wuhan and Zhengzhou, like they already are between Guangzhou and Changsha.
Would this be feasible?
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Old September 26th, 2012, 11:43 PM   #4487
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When the Beijing- Guangzhou-Shenzhen HSL fully opens (now only Beijing Zhengzhou section is left),
I guess there will be express G trains stopping only at the provincial
capitals like Zhengzhou, Wuhan.
This is judged from the current T15 trains on the old track. It goes from
BJ to GZ in 20hours 33 minutes stopping only at provincial
capitals along the way: Shijiazhuang, Zhengzhou, Wuhan, Changsha.


Laojang




Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Simple.
On the direction Shenzhen-Wuhan, there are 12 G trains daily.
This includes 7 non-express trains Shenzhen-Wuhan numbered G1012 to G1024, trip time 4:47 (G1024) to 5:11 (G1020), and 2 non-express trains Shenzhen-Xian (G822/G823, 4:48 Shenzhen-Wuhan) and Shenzhen-Zhengzhou (G74, 5:01 Shenzhen-Wuhan).
But also 3 express trains G1002 to G1006, trip time 4:11 (G1004) to 4:13 (both the others).

My solution?

In addition to the 14 G trains continuing from Changsha-Wuhan to Wuhan-Zhengzhou (G74, 7 G5xx trains and 6 G8xx trains - none of them expresses) continue the 3 existing expresses 1002 to 1006 to Zhengzhou.
And make them expresses nonstop between Wuhan and Zhengzhou, like they already are between Guangzhou and Changsha.
Would this be feasible?
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Old September 26th, 2012, 11:57 PM   #4488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I do not know but engineers on the line that I have spoken to have told me that "350+kph is just too fast", perhaps referring to going from 60/76kph NNNN trains leaping to 380kph in 10 years in one nation.

China may just need time to get systems and operations expertise up to speed. At this rate of growth they simply do not have enough maintenance or operational crew years to cross train [as in training others how to do something].

It's also more costly. Faster they go, the more electricity they consume, the more wear, friction, resistance, etc.

Give them a few years to learn and I think they will upgrade with time as they fine tune the tracks, learn and improve. Certainly they figured out how to tweak and improve the train-sets and engines. It's likely the same learning curve will happen with track and track speeds.

But they need the track and experience on it to learn, and that takes time.

=============

On the Wuhan-Guangzhou line at first it was fast and quiet, my second ride was a bit bumpier and louder and swayed as hmmv described the TGV, then they slowed down, dialed it back in and it became smoother than my first trip. So they are learning and keeping the ride quality the same, or better.
Understood. They're going to have to learn not just how to operate but maintain their system. Aside from their accident near Wenzhou (condolences for the people lost, families) they seem to be doing a really good job with their high speed rail operations. I've only taken one ride on the CRH system and it left and arrived on time, smooth and comfortable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George08 View Post
The Xi'an North Railway Station (Chinese: 西安北站; pinyin: Xī'ānběi​ Zhn) is a railway station of Zhengxi Passenger Railway and Xibao Passenger Railway. The station located in Weiyang District of Xi'an City (the capital of Shaanxi Province of China). It is some 10 km north of the city center and the "old" Xi'an Railway Station.
The station has 34 platforms. It is the largest train station in Northwest China.
The station is connected to downtown Xi'an by Line 2 of Xi'an Metro.
The station was opened on January 11, 2011.

As of May 2012, Xi'an North Station is served only by the fast (G-series and D-series) trains running on the ZhengzhouXi'an High-Speed Railway; one of them continues south to Hankou. All other passenger trains serving Xi'an (including the D-series trains west to Baoji) run from Xi'an Railway Station, just north of downtown. This is likely to change once the Xi'anBaoji High-Speed Railway (currently under construction) is completed.
So was that the Xi'an North station the train was leaving from in the video? The youtube poster didn't seem to provide much more information than I could read.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 12:29 AM   #4489
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I have a question somewhat related to the Hangzhou-Shanghai HSR line.

There is an old article from 2011 with an opinion of a famed 'expert' N.Roubini where among other things he expresses his view on China's high speed trains

"Meaningful probability" of a China hard landing: Roubini
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75C1OF20110613

In the article he says:

Quote:
Next to the train station is also the new local airport of Shanghai and you can fly to Hangzhou,"
Were there really flights between Shanghai Hongqiao (or Pudong) and Hangzhou at that time (2011)?

A friend of mine has suggested that such possibility was plausible even though he didn't give details.

Last edited by Pansori; September 27th, 2012 at 12:34 AM.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #4490
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Searching Kayak.com I don't see any flights between Shanghai(SHA/PVG) and Hangzhou. There are flights on China Eastern from PVG to Nanjing despite the high speed rail line running between the cities.

[IMG]http://i46.************/x38yso.jpg[/IMG]


Last edited by FM 2258; September 27th, 2012 at 01:06 AM.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 01:00 AM   #4491
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Yes I know that (I can do a serch too, I'm not stupid ). What I was asking is were there any direct flights between Shanghai and Hangzhou in 2011 (or the period of past few years)?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #4492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post

Yes I know that (I can do a serch too, I'm not stupid ). What I was asking is were there any direct flights between Shanghai and Hangzhou in 2011 (or the period of past few years)?
I wonder that too about previous years. CRH has obviously make some air routes less feasible.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 01:12 AM   #4493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I wonder that too about previous years. CRH has obviously make some air routes less feasible.
Surely so. However we must keep in mind that the distance between Hangzhou and Shanghai is just about 160km and cities are connected by 3 expressways. Which is why I was somewhat surprised to read that there might have been flights between those cities as late as 2011 when the HSR line was operational. That just wouldn't make any sense with or without the fast trains. Therefore I want to ask someone who either lives there and/or knows transport well to answer the question.

Or does Roubini (and my friend) not know what he's talking about?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 03:26 AM   #4494
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Flights between Shanghai and Hangzhou ended even before CRH became available in 2007.

""I was recently in Shanghai and I took their high-speed train to Hangzhou," he said, referring to the new Maglev line that has cut traveling time between the two cities to less than an hour from four hours previously."
Nuff said about Reuters' reporting.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 03:34 AM   #4495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


Searching Kayak.com I don't see any flights between Shanghai(SHA/PVG) and Hangzhou. There are flights on China Eastern from PVG to Nanjing despite the high speed rail line running between the cities.
I'd suspect that flight will be terminated pretty soon, they operate a single ERJ145 on that flight and the ticket is always discounted at 90% off at Ctrip, so it'll only cost RMB100. So it's pretty much there for people who can't afford the RMB135 HSR ticket.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 05:21 AM   #4496
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Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR to open tomorrow (September 28)

Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR is part of Beijing-Guangzhou HSR.

Length: 536km
Speed: 300km/h (design speed 350km/h)
Stations: 9
Time: 116 minutes (fastest train)
Fare: ¥245 ($39) second class


New Zhengzhou East Station will open 9/28
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Old September 27th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #4497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Simple.
On the direction Shenzhen-Wuhan, there are 12 G trains daily.
This includes 7 non-express trains Shenzhen-Wuhan numbered G1012 to G1024, trip time 4:47 (G1024) to 5:11 (G1020), and 2 non-express trains Shenzhen-Xian (G822/G823, 4:48 Shenzhen-Wuhan) and Shenzhen-Zhengzhou (G74, 5:01 Shenzhen-Wuhan).
But also 3 express trains G1002 to G1006, trip time 4:11 (G1004) to 4:13 (both the others).
So for 1/3rd of the entire line [2hours shorter trip, means you cover 1/3rd of a non-express train distance catching up to them and passing them] you need to delay or sidetrack the non-express trains as the express is coming through at 350kph avg.

Guangzhou-Wuhan has many stations that do NOT have side tracks, small stations in out of the way places, one set of tracks each direction.

Where are you going to put those slower trains?

Or just do it as the first train of the day?

This is part of the operational experience that needs to build up, it's the same with global lack of high level project engineers for large building projects, megatalls, supertalls. There is only so much talent and expertise to go around at first.

Once China finishes much of next year's CRH, they will have a large surplus of knowledge to then bring to bear on the finished and final routes being built.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #4498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
So for 1/3rd of the entire line [2hours shorter trip, means you cover 1/3rd of a non-express train distance catching up to them and passing them] you need to delay or sidetrack the non-express trains as the express is coming through at 350kph avg.

Guangzhou-Wuhan has many stations that do NOT have side tracks, small stations in out of the way places, one set of tracks each direction.

Where are you going to put those slower trains?

Or just do it as the first train of the day?
G1002 is NOT the first train of the day.

It departs Guangzhou South 10:28 (the first train having been G1102 at 7:00) and arrives at Wuhan 14:13, having passed on its way 2 trains, namely G1124 (10:15 to 14:38) and G544 (10:25 to 14:45).

Likewise, G1004 passes 3 trains (G536, G1154, G1156) and G1006 2 trains (G1164 and D2104).

Considered Wuhan-Zhengzhou seems to have less dense traffic than Guangzhou-Wuhan, passing of express trains should seem easier to arrange.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #4499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv
Flights between Shanghai and Hangzhou ended even before CRH became available in 2007.

""I was recently in Shanghai and I took their high-speed train to Hangzhou," he said, referring to the new Maglev line that has cut traveling time between the two cities to less than an hour from four hours previously."
Nuff said about Reuters' reporting.
Thanks for the info. Any more details or source on that?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 10:37 AM   #4500
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@FM 2258

The Station in that video looks like the OLD one.


Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR to open tomorrow (September 28)




Great news
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