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Old September 27th, 2012, 10:49 AM   #4501
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I am not amused if these were actually made in Nippon
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Old September 27th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #4502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Considered Wuhan-Zhengzhou seems to have less dense traffic than Guangzhou-Wuhan, passing of express trains should seem easier to arrange.
I don't know what to call this...The Fallacy of Density maybe.

So many here seem to think density is all that matters.

Traffic flow really isn't important if you do not have someplace to put the trains that are passed by the express, which is my point. In order for an express to run, other trains lose much of the time gained by the express. Side track them, wait, then check the lines ahead and behind and then accelerate again, or wait longer at the stations with side tracks.

Think of the system as having finite flow, which it does just like water through a pipe or gas through a pipeline. Or think of it as one long train comprised of the 11 trains run daily. Pull one 'car' out of the link and you slow the aggregate. In the USA express trains used to run on separate tracks, same for NYC subways. Well, that means pylons need to be laid and switches installed and switches at 380 kph make for a bumpy ride.

If you notice, those elevated pylons don't have lots of side tracks next to them and side tracks mean switches and the more switches the more chances for error at 380kph.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #4503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I don't know what to call this...The Fallacy of Density maybe.

So many here seem to think density is all that matters.

Traffic flow really isn't important if you do not have someplace to put the trains that are passed by the express, which is my point. In order for an express to run, other trains lose much of the time gained by the express. Side track them, wait, then check the lines ahead and behind and then accelerate again, or wait longer at the stations with side tracks.

Think of the system as having finite flow, which it does just like water through a pipe or gas through a pipeline. Or think of it as one long train comprised of the 11 trains run daily. Pull one 'car' out of the link and you slow the aggregate. In the USA express trains used to run on separate tracks, same for NYC subways. Well, that means pylons need to be laid and switches installed and switches at 380 kph make for a bumpy ride.

If you notice, those elevated pylons don't have lots of side tracks next to them and side tracks mean switches and the more switches the more chances for error at 380kph.

Surely, if the stations have sidings, then there isn't a problem? Afterall, that's exactly what has been happening on the Tokaido Shinkanen for years.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #4504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I don't know what to call this...The Fallacy of Density maybe.

So many here seem to think density is all that matters.

Traffic flow really isn't important if you do not have someplace to put the trains that are passed by the express, which is my point. In order for an express to run, other trains lose much of the time gained by the express. Side track them, wait, then check the lines ahead and behind and then accelerate again, or wait longer at the stations with side tracks.
Then explain again exactly how the existing expresses pass.
G1002 leaves Guangzhou South at 10:33, at which point the northbound track is occupied, inter alia, by G544 (having left Guangzhou South at 10:25) and G1124 (having left Guangzhou South at 10:15). Oh, and G6110, too! (departure 10:25)
G1002 next stops at Changsha at 12:52. Having passed G1124 (arrival 13:10) and G544 and G6110 (arrival 13:17).

How do they pass?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #4505
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Thanks for the info. Any more details or source on that?
I'm afraid not, I searched all Internetz but couldn't find any official reports of the final Shanghai-Hangzhou flight, I know they existed in the 1990s, but haven't heard anything since the expressway opened. I found that people asked that question in 2004 and 2006 and the answer was no flight.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #4506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I'd suspect that flight will be terminated pretty soon, they operate a single ERJ145 on that flight and the ticket is always discounted at 90% off at Ctrip, so it'll only cost RMB100. So it's pretty much there for people who can't afford the RMB135 HSR ticket.
Damn that's cheap for a flight! I'd fly that route for fun just because I love flying for that price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR to open tomorrow (September 28)

Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR is part of Beijing-Guangzhou HSR.

Length: 536km
Speed: 300km/h (design speed 350km/h)
Stations: 9
Time: 116 minutes (fastest train)
Fare: ¥245 ($39) second class


New Zhengzhou East Station will open 9/28
The station looks really nice. This isn't the same station for the Xi'an-Zhengzhou High Speed Railway is it?

Maybe I'm confused but looks like old stations were the terminus for the Xi'an - Zhengzhou line before this and Xi'an North were completed.



...which leads to another question. Were CRH trains run on the old lines before the dedicated lines were built. Here is a video from 2010 (2/6) from Shanghai Railway Station to Nanjing. They board a CRH2 yet it's running on the old line. Do CRH trains still run on the old lines? Sometimes there are so many rail lines shown in these videos I cannot follow where they're supposed to go. These videos bring up more questions than answers for me.

Suzhou to Wuxi old line(uploaded Jan 2010 by seigen120kaihin):


Wuxi to Suzhou new line(uploaded Jun 2012 by hillsidecnx):

Last edited by FM 2258; September 27th, 2012 at 08:41 PM.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #4507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR to open tomorrow (September 28)

Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR is part of Beijing-Guangzhou HSR.

Length: 536km
Speed: 300km/h (design speed 350km/h)
Stations: 9
Time: 116 minutes (fastest train)
Fare: ¥245 ($39) second class


New Zhengzhou East Station will open 9/28
What will happen to the existing line which according to the map in Wikipedia is capable of 200-250km/h operation? Will it stay as a passenger (+freight?) railway or will become freight-only?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #4508
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There will still be some slow trains (K, T, etc) on the old track, with reduced frequency
though. I took a K train not long ago on a section of the old BJ-SH line, which is
roughly parallel to the BJ-SH high speed line.

Laojang
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Old September 28th, 2012, 03:20 AM   #4509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laojang View Post
There will still be some slow trains (K, T, etc) on the old track, with reduced frequency
though. I took a K train not long ago on a section of the old BJ-SH line, which is
roughly parallel to the BJ-SH high speed line.

Laojang
No more D trains on that track? Will the K, T, etc. trains be sped up?
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Old September 28th, 2012, 06:09 AM   #4510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
The station looks really nice. This isn't the same station for the Xi'an-Zhengzhou High Speed Railway is it?

Maybe I'm confused but looks like old stations were the terminus for the Xi'an - Zhengzhou line before this and Xi'an North were completed.


...which leads to another question. Were CRH trains run on the old lines before the dedicated lines were built. Here is a video from 2010 (2/6) from Shanghai Railway Station to Nanjing. They board a CRH2 yet it's running on the old line. Do CRH trains still run on the old lines? Sometimes there are so many rail lines shown in these videos I cannot follow where they're supposed to go. These videos bring up more questions than answers for me.
No, this isn't the same station for the Xi'an-Zhengzhou High Speed Railway. The new Zhengzhou East Station will only open today. It's said to be the Asia's largest.


The old CRH trains will stay for now. The whole idea of the new HSR new lines is for capacity increase and providing more options to passengers (it's confirmed there's one pair of 200km/h CRH schedule on the new line). The old CRH schedule may be adjusted though to better fit the new requirement.

Last edited by big-dog; September 28th, 2012 at 06:19 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #4511
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9.28 Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR opens

With speed of 300+km/h, the travel time from Zhengzhou to Wuhan (530km) is reduced from 4 hours 28 mins to 1 hour 56 mins.













(sina.com)
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Old September 28th, 2012, 07:52 AM   #4512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
No more D trains on that track? Will the K, T, etc. trains be sped up?
The overnight sleeper D trains from BJ to SH still run on the old track.
The K, T, etc trains are not sped up either. There are more freight trains now.
Also the current minister is not keen on increasing the speed. Actually he reduced the speed of almost all D and G trains. But his term will end in
a few months.

Laojang
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Old September 28th, 2012, 09:15 AM   #4513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
9.28 Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR opens




(sina.com)
That's a beautiful picture.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 09:33 AM   #4514
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Old September 28th, 2012, 09:44 AM   #4515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
9.28 Zhengzhou-Wuhan HSR opens

With speed of 300+km/h, the travel time from Zhengzhou to Wuhan (530km) is reduced from 4 hours 28 mins to 1 hour 56 mins.













(sina.com)

Beautiful pictures!
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Old September 28th, 2012, 09:53 AM   #4516
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Updated
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Old September 28th, 2012, 10:19 AM   #4517
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Going by that picture, will Zhengzhou to Beijing see a 350km/h upgrade? Or is it stuck at 250?
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Old September 28th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #4518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Going by that picture, will Zhengzhou to Beijing see a 350km/h upgrade? Or is it stuck at 250?
I'm pretty sure Beijing-Wuhan is already 350km/h rated.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 10:49 AM   #4519
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Beijing-Zhengzhou is currently 250km/h, new rail will be competed and open at 350km/h by the end of 2012.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #4520
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That's a beautiful picture.
Yep. When the air is clean and the surroundings maintained, China is beautiful as North America or Australia are...with vast wide open spaces, large tracts of farmland and mountains in the distance.

Pastoral.

Give them time, they are developing from 1820 to 2020 in 40 years.
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