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Old December 26th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #5121
foxmulder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obuyama View Post
Ok, that is small, if there will be more robust?
It is almost 300km. That's small?
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Old December 26th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #5122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
It is almost 300km. That's small?
So so... I am used such length: Kwangchow-Shenzam-Hong Kong & other
I meant like Peking-Shanghoi or some smaller. 500-1000 around..
Urumchi, Kummin, Fookchow, Chongking directions..
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Old December 26th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #5123
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Old December 26th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #5124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
what the hell is a milk train?
What I meant as "milk train" or "milk run" is multistop, non-express trains, as opposed to express trains.

Examples from the routes:
Beijing-Xian: 8 trains daily. 1 express G87 with a single stop at Zhengzhou (skipping even Shijiazhuang) takes 4:40, 14:00 to 18:40. The 7 milk trains, numbered G651 to G667, make 6 to 10 stops, travel time 5:27 to 5:58, leave 7:05 to 17:38 and arrive 12:48 to 23:05. Second class RMB 517, first class RMB 826, VIP seat RMB 983.
Beijing-Zhengzhou: 29 G trains daily. 1 nonstop (G87) to Xian covers the distance in 2:24, 4 single stop (Shijiazhuang) trains, G79, G83, G85 and G89 take between 2:30 and 2:34 and arrive 11:30 to 16:00. The 24 milk runs make 3 to 6 stops, take between 2:58 and 3:27. Second class RMB 310, first class RMB 496, VIP seat where offered RMB 596.
Also 2 D trains daily - D2031 and D2021 make 10 and 11 stops respectively, take 4:44 and 4:58, and cost RMB 215 second class, RMB 343 in second class.
Beijing-Shijiazhuang: 48 G trains daily. 5 nonstops - the 4 expresses to Zhengzhou and also G91 to Taiyuan, take 1:07 for 281 km. The milk runs make 1 to 3 stops and take 1:19 to 1:33, leaving 7:00 to 22:03 and arriving 8:19 to 23:22. Price second class RMB 129, first class RMB 207.
Also 5 D trains daily: besides D2021 and D2031 to Zhengzhou and beyond, also D2001 to 2005. These make 2 to 5 intermediate stops and take 1:54 to 2:38. Price RMB 87 in second class, RMB 139 in first class.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #5125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obuyama View Post
So so... I am used such length: Kwangchow-Shenzam-Hong Kong & other
I meant like Peking-Shanghoi or some smaller. 500-1000 around..
Urumchi, Kummin, Fookchow, Chongking directions..
Many intercity lines of short distances are acting as CRH but on a local rail basis, major city as the hub.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-sp...ercity_Railway
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Old December 26th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #5126
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Originally Posted by Obuyama View Post
I meant like Peking-Shanghoi or some smaller. 500-1000 around..
Urumchi, Kummin, Fookchow, Chongking directions..
Beijing-Nanjing is 1023 km. It is served by 38 G trains taking between 3:39 and 4:24. Also by 5 daily D trains taking between 6:16 and 6:58. (The other 3 D trains travel nightly on slow speed railway).

Beijing-Shanghai is 1318 km via Nanjing. The 37 G trains via Nanjing take 4:48 to 5:38. The 4 daily D trains take between 8:07 and 9:08.

Beijing-Hangzhou G and D trains now go by detour via Shanghai - the detour via Xuancheng is on slow speed lines. The 7 G trains take between 6:18 and 6:40, and cover 1487 km - 464 km Nanjing-Hangzhou via Shanghai. The 1 D train D365 goes extra 15 km to Hangzhou South, and takes 9:41.

D365 goes on to slow speed railway Hangzhou-Ningbo, and then to 250 km/h railway Ningbo-Fuzhou.

The 2223 km train D365 is still the longest high speed train, for Beijing-Longhua actual distance is said to be just 2206 km. And neither the 10:05 trip time of G71 nor the 10:25 trip time of G72 comes even close to the 15:10 trip time of D365, let alone 15:31 trip time of D366.

When Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed railway shall open, Hangzhou shall be closer to Beijing than Shanghai, at just 1276 km away. How many trains daily shall connect Beijing and Hangzhou under 5 hours? And shall any G trains continue past Hangzhou to 250 km/h lines to Fuzhou and beyond, like Xiamen and Longyan?

Is it by now known which year shall Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed railway open - in Dragon Year or in Snake Year?
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Old December 26th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #5127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Of course it matters, there is significant difference in terms of material's properties when temperature drops from -20 to -40. I think it's perfectly reasonable to run HSR at different speeds according to seasons. The line's design speed is 250km/h in the winter and 350km/h in the summer, but due to the nationwide speed reduction everything is artifically lowered by 50km/h.
I didn't said anything about -40. It happens very very rare, once per several tens of years.

Minimum recorded temperature in Harbin is past 10 years was -26.
It was on 30 and 31 December 2009, 1 January 2010, 15 January 2011, 23 December 2012. All on nights.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #5128
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By the way, is there any GPX tracks from new Beijing - Guangzhou line?
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Old December 26th, 2012, 07:35 PM   #5129
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Beijing-Taiyuan: 9 G trains daily. 1 express, G91, makes single stop in Shijiazhuang, and takes 2:30. The milk trains, numbered G601 to G615, make 3 or 4 stops, take 2:45 or 2:53 and arrive from 10:20 to 23:13. Price second class RMB 195, first class RMB 286, VIP seat where offered RMB 365.
Also 3 D trains, D2001 to D2005, make 4 to 6 stops, take 3:23 to 3:26 and arrive 10:33 to 18:45. Price second class RMB 153, first class RMB 218.
Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan: 13 G trains daily. The nonstop, G91, takes 1:20. The others make single stop and take 1:22 to 1:25. Price second class RMB 66, first class RMB 79, VIP seat where offered RMB 119.
Also 5 D trains, the range D2001 to D2005 and also Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan trains D2007 and D2009. The 2 nonstops (D2003 and D2009) take 1:17, the others 1:22 or 1:23, with the single stop in Yangquan North. Price also second class RMB 66, first class RMB 79
Taiyuan-Zhengzhou: 4 G trains daily - G62x and G63x ranges. These make 3 or 5 stops and take 3:24 to 3:45. Price second class RMB 256 and first class RMB 382.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #5130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Beijing-Nanjing is 1023 km. It is served by 38 G trains taking between 3:39 and 4:24. Also by 5 daily D trains taking between 6:16 and 6:58. (The other 3 D trains travel nightly on slow speed railway).
Beijing-Shanghai is 1318 km via Nanjing. The 37 G trains via Nanjing take 4:48 to 5:38. The 4 daily D trains take between 8:07 and 9:08.
Beijing-Hangzhou G and D trains now go by detour via Shanghai - the detour via Xuancheng is on slow speed lines. The 7 G trains take between 6:18 and 6:40, and cover 1487 km - 464 km Nanjing-Hangzhou via Shanghai. The 1 D train D365 goes extra 15 km to Hangzhou South, and takes 9:41.
D365 goes on to slow speed railway Hangzhou-Ningbo, and then to 250 km/h railway Ningbo-Fuzhou.
The 2223 km train D365 is still the longest high speed train, for Beijing-Longhua actual distance is said to be just 2206 km. And neither the 10:05 trip time of G71 nor the 10:25 trip time of G72 comes even close to the 15:10 trip time of D365, let alone 15:31 trip time of D366.
When Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed railway shall open, Hangzhou shall be closer to Beijing than Shanghai, at just 1276 km away. How many trains daily shall connect Beijing and Hangzhou under 5 hours? And shall any G trains continue past Hangzhou to 250 km/h lines to Fuzhou and beyond, like Xiamen and Longyan?
Is it by now known which year shall Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed railway open - in Dragon Year or in Snake Year?
Most I know, as the plans from 2007 year.
I asked first on newcoming, but not opened, the second for distance 500-1000.
Cause, this data is not true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China
They said Harbin-Peking was not opened, but I went by in 2011.

Last edited by Obuyama; December 26th, 2012 at 08:08 PM.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 09:23 PM   #5131
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Taiyuan-Wuhan: 3 G trains daily, making 7 to 10 stops and taking 5:34 to 6:12. Price second class RMB 482, first class RMB 744.
Taiyuan-Changsha: 1 G train G624 daily, making 10 stops and taking 7:12 from 10:46 to 17:58. Price second class RMB 618, first class RMB 961.
Taiyuan-Guangzhou: the 1 G train G624, making 14 stops and taking 10:02 from 10:46 to 20:48. Price RMB 854 second class, RMB 1338 first class.

Regarding connections from Shanghai inland - yes, they are poor.
Shanghai-Wuhan, via Nanjing and Hefei - 18 D trains, taking 4:47 to 6:33, and 7 slow trains.
Shanghai-Zhengzhou - 4 D trains daily, taking 6:52 to 7:03, and 13 slow trains.
Shanghai-Shijiazhuang - no D trains, 4 slow trains taking 11:01 to 19:12.
Shanghai-Xian - 1 D train D306 nightly, taking 10:40, and 9 slow trains.
Shanghai-Changsha - 1 D train D105 daily, taking 9:16, and 3 slow trains.
Shanghai-Guangzhou - no D trains, 4 slow trains taking 15:57 to 22:33.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #5132
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I was on the first train G801 yesterday:

















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Old December 27th, 2012, 02:12 AM   #5133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
I was on the first train G801 yesterday:
Can you explain the trains G801 and G83 then? They seem to leave Beijing together at 9:00, have zero headway till leaving Zhengzhou 11:33, then in Wuhan G83 is 1 minute behing, in Changsha 2 minute behind but G801 terminates, G83 continues to Guangzhou... what is the matter?
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Old December 27th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #5134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Any updated word on the progress of the Xian-Datong PDL completion date? I hear rumours construction has stopped, but the sites appear to me to be finished with pylons, rail bed and safety railings. Next would be ballast-less and rail laying.
AFAIK the construction is going on, haven't heard anything about completion date besides the original estimate of 2014.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obuyama View Post
Ok, that is small, if there will be more robust?
Well, not even China can open 1000km HSR lines every few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
I didn't said anything about -40. It happens very very rare, once per several tens of years.

Minimum recorded temperature in Harbin is past 10 years was -26.
It was on 30 and 31 December 2009, 1 January 2010, 15 January 2011, 23 December 2012. All on nights.
Interesting, Harbin city's temperature already dropped to -32C yesterday, I assume in areas outside the city along the line the temperature may go even lower. Anyway I think this discussion is pretty pointless, the train have to go slower in winter due to low temperature, icing, wind gust and heavy snow so it has greater safety margin, I don't see anything wrong with that. You gave example of Sapsan, Harbin-Dalian's designed speed in winter is the same at 250km/h. Like every single HSR lines in China the maximum operating speed was artificially lowered by 50km/h for political and economics reasons.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #5135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Can you explain the trains G801 and G83 then? They seem to leave Beijing together at 9:00, have zero headway till leaving Zhengzhou 11:33, then in Wuhan G83 is 1 minute behing, in Changsha 2 minute behind but G801 terminates, G83 continues to Guangzhou... what is the matter?
G801 runs only on the opening day.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 02:53 AM   #5136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
G801 runs only on the opening day.
Any more pics or text?
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Old December 27th, 2012, 03:25 AM   #5137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
AFAIK the construction is going on, haven't heard anything about completion date besides the original estimate of 2014.


Well, not even China can open 1000km HSR lines every few months.


Interesting, Harbin city's temperature already dropped to -32C yesterday.
Mo He city ,also in heilongjiang province, -43degree several days ago.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 05:19 AM   #5138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
I was on the first train G801 yesterday:
Beijing West sure looks crowded, overall how did you like the trip?
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Old December 27th, 2012, 05:39 AM   #5139
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Interesting, Harbin city's temperature already dropped to -32C yesterday, I assume in areas outside the city along the line the temperature may go even lower.
looks like the entire first week of January will be below -35C.... would not like to be there... And that's with global warming..
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Old December 27th, 2012, 05:43 AM   #5140
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Beijing West sure looks crowded, overall how did you like the trip?
I believe it's Beijing South. Beijing West is the station for the regular train service, and it doesn't have subway connection. (it does though, some a space reserved for a sub station for more than 20 years now. Rumor has it some military stuff underground have prevented a subway link that that station.)
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