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Old December 28th, 2012, 01:40 PM   #5181
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post

China accepts the international definition of high speed, that is 200km/h on upgraded existing lines and 250km/h on new build lines. Furthermore in Chinese only 300km/h or above G trains are called "HSR" while the rest CRH trains simply EMU.
I remember the prerecorded onboard audio message in English on the the Shanghai-Hangzhou G train I was taking (it was CRH380B). It was something like "welcome onboard Harmony, the EMU train..."
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Old December 28th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #5182
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Not quite. Beijing West may have had a metro station for a year, but it hasn't been connected with the rest of the system. Until later today, Beijing time, that is. Even then the connection isn't fast or convenient, with no direct metro lines, even with the proposed R-lines.
In that sense yes, as of today Line 9 only connects with Fangshan Line. In a week's time Line 9 (and Beijing West) is supposed to be connected with Line 4, Line 6, Line 1, Line 10 and Fangshan Line.
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Old December 28th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #5183
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In that sense yes, as of today Line 9 only connects with Fangshan Line. In a week's time Line 9 (and Beijing West) is supposed to be connected with Line 4, Line 6, Line 1, Line 10 and Fangshan Line.
Remember that Shijiazhuang Airport refunds the second class ticket price for any air passenger arriving by high speed train from Beijing or a few other stations.

On G6701, Shijiazhuang Airport can be reached in 1:17.

How many connections shall be needed this week to travel from Beijing West across the city to Beijing International Airport on the other side of the city? What would the trip time be? And which airport is therefore easier to reach from Beijing - the Beijing one or the Shijiazhuang one?
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Old December 28th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #5184
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Last edited by China Hand; December 28th, 2012 at 11:54 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #5185
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The high speed railways shut for night. The last G train for Wuhan, G1178, shall have departed at 19:20.

Your options are:
a) sleep on ground in Hong Kong or Guangzhou, catch first morning train. This is G1102, leaving 7:00, arriving 11:10.
b) get to Guangzhou instead of Guangzhou East, get on slow speed overnight train, arrive next morning.
T180, leaving 21:20, is probably too early to catch. Next is K437/K436, leaving Guangzhou 23:06, also stopping Dongguan East, leaving 21:46. But it is slow, arriving in Wuhan 11:26. It is passed by T38/T35, leaving Guangzhou 23:53, arriving in Wuhan 10:42.
It would be fastest to fly from HKG to WUH, but I am sure you wish to try the ZGT. Flights are 300 Euros r/t, 2 hours one way.

The Pearl River Delta is very very large and Guangzhou is a very large metropolitan area. It takes several hours by ground transportation to get from HKG to Guangzhou. Minimum one hour to get to Shenzhen to then take the CRH from Shenzhen to Guangzhou South in 35 minutes. Once there, though, the station is not nearby any hotels and taxis may be hard to find. Bus services in China tend to stop after 1800 or so.

So you won't be at the Guangzhou South Station until at least 2 hours after your flight lands. Possibly 4 hours later.

Fastest way for the CRH is to take the shuttle bus to Shenzhen, take the CRH to Guangzhou South and then get a hotel room nearby after you purchase your ticket for the first train the next day.

Get up at 0600, leave at 0700, you will arrive Wuhan by 1115 the next morning.

If you have never traveled in China before, keep in mind that once you get off a plane or fast CRH train, travel times can rise to near infinity. You can easily travel to Wuhan in 4 hours but then spend 6 hours traveling the last 250kms of your journey over local short haul buses to small, out of the way cities.

Until the Beijing-GZ line was finished I would go to Wuhan (60% of my trip) in 4 hours and then spend 18 HOURS to travel the last 40% of my trip.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 12:23 AM   #5186
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18 hours??? Could you have traveled faster than that if you had a car waiting in Wuhan? The new HSR is really great and I've also read about thousands of kilometers of new highways being built, but evidently there is still a long way to go....

Living in Switzerland I could probably get to any point in Europe West of Russia in less than 12 h (except, perhaps, some remote islands or the far north).
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:31 AM   #5187
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How many connections shall be needed this week to travel from Beijing West across the city to Beijing International Airport on the other side of the city? What would the trip time be? And which airport is therefore easier to reach from Beijing - the Beijing one or the Shijiazhuang one?
Im afraid that's a time consuming trip. The best subway ride from Beijing West might be Line 9->Line 10->Airport line with 2 interchanges (see map below). It may take 1.5 hours. I wonder if there's airport shuttle from Beijing West to Airport (bus is better when you have luggage to carry). I was taking airport shuttle from Beijing South to airport and it's quite cheap and convenient.

Beijing subway map
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:32 AM   #5188
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Beijing-Guangzhou HSR



by 中华火车迷部落
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:43 AM   #5189
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Awesome picture.

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Old December 29th, 2012, 08:32 AM   #5190
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Second that, right click to save as wallpaper!
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Old December 29th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #5191
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If you have never traveled in China before, keep in mind that once you get off a plane or fast CRH train, travel times can rise to near infinity. You can easily travel to Wuhan in 4 hours but then spend 6 hours traveling the last 250kms of your journey over local short haul buses to small, out of the way cities.

Until the Beijing-GZ line was finished I would go to Wuhan (60% of my trip) in 4 hours and then spend 18 HOURS to travel the last 40% of my trip.
It follows that what China really needs is a dense network of medium speed railways with frequent stops, to reach the countryside between the 350 km/h lines and the outskirts of large cities. Not 300+ km/h - the straight lines are too expensive to build everywhere and they cannot reach such speed between frequent stops - rather 160-200 km/h, and good acceleration.

In which months of 2013 shall the Wuhan-Huangshi, Wuhan-Xianning and Wuhan-Huangshi railways open?
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Old December 29th, 2012, 02:05 PM   #5192
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渝利铁路明年建成通车 重庆10小时到上海
Is it possible to take only 10 hours to travel from shanghai to chongqing by train next year?Since the Shanghai-Wuhan-Chengdu HSR is so low to compare with Beijing-Guangzhou HSR when comes to their designed speed!!
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Old December 29th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #5193
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渝利铁路明年建成通车 重庆10小时到上海
Is it possible to take only 10 hours to travel from shanghai to chongqing by train next year?Since the Shanghai-Wuhan-Chengdu HSR is so low to compare with Beijing-Guangzhou HSR when comes to their designed speed!!
No.

The fastest train Shanghai-Yichang is D3006/D3007, which takes 7:04, with 3 stops (Wuhan, and the others are oddly Macheng and Jingzhou, not Nanjing and Hefei).

Although Yichang-Lichuan-Wanzhou railway has been built, it is slow in the Three Gorges mountains, and no D trains travel there. The fastest train Yichang-Lichuan is T6716/6717, which takes 2:56.

Even when Lichuan-Chongqing high speed railway is opened, Lichuan-Shanghai alone should take at least 10 hours and therefore Chongqing-Shanghai in 10 hours shall remain impossible.

In which month shall Chongqing-Lichuan high speed railway open?
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Old December 29th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #5194
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In which month shall Chongqing-Lichuan high speed railway open?
It doesnot mention in the news.The shanghai-wuhan section is too slow compared to other HSR.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 10:28 PM   #5195
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18 hours??? Could you have traveled faster than that if you had a car waiting in Wuhan? The new HSR is really great and I've also read about thousands of kilometers of new highways being built, but evidently there is still a long way to go....

Living in Switzerland I could probably get to any point in Europe West of Russia in less than 12 h (except, perhaps, some remote islands or the far north).
If I had a driver then it would have been 11 hours to travel the last 960kms. Things just take longer in China. The roads are crowded, you cannot drive faster than 110 kph, everyone stops all the time to eat, tolls, construction that is unannounced at best, detours that occur spontaneously, anything and everything.

Major cities have legendary traffic jams during peak hours that are unmatched in any other nation. You truly have no idea. Mexico City is easy compared to any of several score Chinese big cities. I have taken city buses that took 2 hours to traverse 11.5kms. That's walking speed and that's common.

Even though there are modern, 4/6/8 land freeways/tollways/highways as you see in Europe or North America or Japan, the avg speed is 90kph as the Chinese are relentless money savers. Drive slow to save fuel. Take non-tollways to save on tolls, etc. If you traveled with a group, they would find any reason to stop and eat and delay. They soak up huge amounts of time doing nothing. You cannot 'make good time' as you think of it and rive fast for long stretches without stopping. Something always delays you.

93 khp are what long haul seated, not sleeper, buses average during the day. So you would avg the same velocity but pay for gas, the car, the driver, his meals, and all tolls.

Really good example is that it is 6h10-40m from Zhengzhou to Guangzhou (1450 km) but if you take a shuttle or bus to get to Hong Kong from the Guangzhou South Station it will take you 2.75 or more hours in the massive traffic to travel the 130km to the border.

Now you know why we are so excited about CRH - you can actually GET SOMEWHERE without delays or nonsense.

When one lives in China and travels to just about any other nation, asides India, it feels empty. North America feels abandoned. Europe is decidedly UN crowded compared to China.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #5196
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Plenty of reasons to be excited about HSR that I understand! By the way 93 kph average for a long distance traffic is not that bad really. There are few places in Europe where more would be possible, but mostly it would be the same or even less. 960 km is just a very long distance for driving..

I have been to China (Beijing and nearby, 1995) and know a bit how crowded it could be. It was, however, a long time ago and in those days cars were few and it was mostly about bicycles and public transport. West China is fairly empty, though.

By the way is it possible now for Chinese citizens to rent a car to drive themselves? I know foreigners can't do that in China.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #5197
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Really good example is that it is 6h10-40m from Zhengzhou to Guangzhou (1450 km)
Actually, it is 5:26-39 - with the 3 expresses (G93, G95, G79).

The other 15 are, yes, G81 6:02 and the rest 6:12 (G821) to 6:34 (G839).

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but if you take a shuttle or bus to get to Hong Kong from the Guangzhou South Station it will take you 2.75 or more hours in the massive traffic to travel the 130km to the border.
Instead, you can take CRH, and end up in Shenzhen North, less than 10 km to the border.

Problem here: just 5 out of the 18 trains to Guangzhou continue to Shenzhen. And since none of the 3 expresses is among the 5 direct trains, Zhengzhou-Shenzhen takes 6:52 (G821) to 7:04 (G75).
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Old December 30th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #5198
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Plenty of reasons to be excited about HSR that I understand! By the way 93 kph average for a long distance traffic is not that bad really. There are few places in Europe where more would be possible, but mostly it would be the same or even less. 960 km is just a very long distance for driving.
Several times I have driven 1300kms in one day, at speeds of 130 to 140 kph, stopping twice for only 3o minutes each time. Took me 11 hours. That's a long day behind the wheel.

But that's North America. Montana, Wyoming and such.

Parts of the Freeway between Los Angeles and Phoenix I have traveled at 161 kph. Flat open road, visibility to the horizon, few vehicles. Put foot to floor and go. Done that 6 or more times.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 12:37 AM   #5199
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Instead, you can take CRH, and end up in Shenzhen North, less than 10 km to the border.
My point was about time, traffic and very low avg transit speeds and my anecdote predates that line's operation.

It can be applied to any large city in China.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 01:34 AM   #5200
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In which months of 2013 shall the Wuhan-Huangshi, Wuhan-Xianning and Wuhan-Huangshi railways open?
I think you mean Wuhan-Huangshi/Huanggang? It's over 95% completed but stuck on environmental impact study of a small section just outside Wuhan, where a residential complex was built illegally a few years ago thus making it too close to the railway line. They have been negotiating a way out of this but short of demolishing a building there seem to be no way to do it. The authority is too afraid to anger that many residents so the line sits idle for the time being.

Wuhan-Xianning is going very well, all infrastructure construction should be concluded in Feb, I assume after the Chinese New Year because otherwise they will have to get it done in mid Jan to allow migrate workers time to go home. Trial runs are set for May and commercial operation in mid summer.

Quote:
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In which month shall Chongqing-Lichuan high speed railway open?
Chongqing-Lichuan is not a high speed railway, it's a conventional China Railway Level 1 Trunk Line (国铁一级干线)that runs EMUs, conventional passengers trains, and freight. It's set to open before the end of 2013, so I assume it will follow other lines and have a conservative schedule of trial runs in Sept and commercial operation in Dec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhzz View Post
The shanghai-wuhan section is too slow compared to other HSR.
I agree, I hope they come to their senses and in the future upgrade that line to 350km/h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I have been to China (Beijing and nearby, 1995) and know a bit how crowded it could be. It was, however, a long time ago and in those days cars were few and it was mostly about bicycles and public transport. West China is fairly empty, though.

By the way is it possible now for Chinese citizens to rent a car to drive themselves? I know foreigners can't do that in China.
Well I think the crowd in 1995 is not even comparable with today, just imagine half the bicycles are replaced with cars, public transport is just as crowded today. My advise is avoid travelling at rush hours at all cost, you will be stuck, either in traffic on the road or between two guys in a subway.

There are tons of car rental outfit in China now and foreigners can get a rental as long as you have a foreign driver's license that's recognized in China, I believe US licenses are. China Auto Rental is the biggest domestic rental company, you can also go with established Western brands such as AVIS or Hertz.
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