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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:19 AM   #5221
Pansori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
My understanding is that on CRH380A there are no seats directly behind the driver so you can see through the glass wall and view out of the main windshield. Only on CRH3/380B.
Are you sure? What about this? http://www.railway-technology.com/pr...ed-china6.html
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:07 AM   #5222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
is that shuttle train in any way related to this long-delayed boondoggle?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...8&postcount=22


http://www.cctv.com/english/special/...9/103579.shtml
Ah, yes. That was supposed to have been ready for the 2008 Olympics, and is *now* scheduled for June 2013.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:34 AM   #5223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I scored a VIP 1st Class Sight Seeing seat for my trip back today.

[IMG]http://i49.************/2mfxq1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i50.************/34q0o43.png[/IMG]
More pictures, or it did not happen
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:53 AM   #5224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
My understanding is that on CRH380A there are no seats directly behind the driver so you can see through the glass wall and view out of the main windshield. Only on CRH3/380B.
There was frosted glass between me and the driver's compartment.

The driver's compartment began at my feet.

The in-armrest touch screen offered movies, and mp3's, and travelogues of China...but no video cameras front, back or sides to see the exteriors...

The two front seats are exactly as 1st Class international flights. They have a full range of motorised settings including lying flat so that one may sleep.

[IMG]http://i50.************/2yjt07a.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.************/34nmafq.jpg[/IMG]

Last edited by China Hand; January 3rd, 2013 at 09:50 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 10:06 AM   #5225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
There was frosted glass between me and the driver's compartment.
The glass is controllable by passengers. You'll find five buttons on one of the windowsills (in my case, besides seat 01A), press the bottom-right button to make it transparent:

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Old January 3rd, 2013, 11:11 AM   #5226
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My panel had only 3 buttons and none for de-frosting or speaker.

There was no seat 1A in my compartment.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:13 PM   #5227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
It's almost one Yuan for every minute.
For comparison:

Guangzhou-Shenzhen - 91 minutes, second class 79 Yuan 5 Jiao
Nanchang-Jiujiang - 70 minutes, second class 39 Yuan 5 Jiao
Chengdu-Du Jiangyan - 28 minutes, soft seat 15 Yuan
Changchun-Jilin - 40 minutes, second class 31 Yuan 5 Jiao.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 05:41 PM   #5228
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On the German ICE 3 high speed trains, the frosting of the glass can be controlled by the driver. Some prefer to have passengers not looking over their shoulder as they do their job, others don't mind.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:17 PM   #5229
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The defrosting feature looks very cool. Tap on the window if the engineer falls asleep ....
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 10:03 PM   #5230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
is that shuttle train in any way related to this long-delayed boondoggle?
This could be part of it, but I was referring to a shuttle train between Beijing West and Beijing South, not between Beijing West and Beijing (East).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Thanks for the clarification. What was the best way to get to Zhuhai before this line was opened? Car/Bus?

Interesting that this train pretty much goes a mile per minute. Although I wish it was a faster line like the Shanghai -> Hangzhou or Beijing -> Tianjin line, this is probably a hell of a lot better than the previous transport options.

Why would a connector project be a boondoggle?

Also...is there going to be a similar connector to Beijing South? Maybe a triangle of rapid transit connections is in order.
The fastest way before is using the expressway, either drive or ride motor coaches. The current line is not an HSR but a intercity commuter train, it will be using CRH6 and have frequent stops, maybe when the full line is in service (including the connection to Zhuhai Sanzhao Airport) then an express service will be offered.

Regarding the shuttle train, currently there are physical tracks connecting the three stations, especially considering the one between Beijing West and Beijing South is a direct connection. Beijing (east) Station is a terminal station so if a shuttle is setup it will have to go from East --> South --> West, if a connection line is built between East and West then the shuttle can run in a loop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I stand corrected.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 10:28 PM   #5231
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is the BWRS-BSRS shuttle train opening this year? is it above ground on the existing mainline tracks?
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 10:56 PM   #5232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post

Regarding the shuttle train, currently there are physical tracks connecting the three stations, especially considering the one between Beijing West and Beijing South is a direct connection. Beijing (east) Station is a terminal station so if a shuttle is setup it will have to go from East --> South --> West, if a connection line is built between East and West then the shuttle can run in a loop.
Just shuttles, with connection on both ends? Or through trains?

I see that there are 5 trains Shenyang-Beijing that pass through Beijing:
T12/T13 Shenyang-Guangzhou, next stop after Beijing is Shijiazhuang
T158/T155 Harbin-Taizhou in Jiangsu, next stop after Beijing is Xuzhou
1714/1711 Shenyang North-Baotou, next stop after Beijing is Xuanhua
K1114/K1111 Shenyang-Datong, next stop after Beijing is Zhangjiakou South
1174/1171 Harbin-Taiyuan, next stop after Beijing is Baijian.

How do these trains pass through Beijing East station?

Where should D and G trains passing through Beijing be routed and make stops?
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Old January 4th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #5233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
is the BWRS-BSRS shuttle train opening this year? is it above ground on the existing mainline tracks?
Don't know yet, if they want they can open the shuttle any time since all infrastructure is in place. There is an above ground connection line between West and South, total travel time is probably ten minutes or so. If it's me I'd put a few CRH6 on there and run them nonstop throughout the day.

The underground line is a EMU rated tunnel linking Beijing West and Beijing Railway Station (East). It's being under construction since 2005 and right now the estimated completion time is June of this year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Just shuttles, with connection on both ends? Or through trains?
How do these trains pass through Beijing East station?

Where should D and G trains passing through Beijing be routed and make stops?
I believe the shuttles are dedicated trains that just run back and forth. The "through" trains at Beijing (East) Railway Station drives into the terminal and then back out to continue their journeys. Very few D trains go through Beijing (East), I can think of D191/2/3/4 between Taiyuan and Shenyang, most D trains there are either ones to the Northeast and Tianjin, or to Shanghai using the upgraded conventional line. In terms of D and G trains, in general Beijing West handles traffic towards Guangzhou, Beijing South handles trains to Shanghai and Tianjin, I'm pretty sure Beijing (East) Railway Station doesn't handle G trains, Beijing North doesn't handle CRH trains at all.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #5234
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Then there must be a reason why there is no direct shuttle between BWRS and BSRS, since the assumption is that Chinese railway administrations act rationally and respond to passenger needs. Perhaps it is a scheduling issue, lack of equipment, lack of electrification on the line?
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Old January 4th, 2013, 04:14 PM   #5235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Don't know yet, if they want they can open the shuttle any time since all infrastructure is in place. There is an above ground connection line between West and South, total travel time is probably ten minutes or so. If it's me I'd put a few CRH6 on there and run them nonstop throughout the day.

The underground line is a EMU rated tunnel linking Beijing West and Beijing Railway Station (East). It's being under construction since 2005 and right now the estimated completion time is June of this year.
I would rather have the shuttles be unified under the the Beijing suburban railway S series lines. Instead of being a shuttle it would just be a continuation of an existing route from the suburbs. Imagine S3, S4, S5, and S6 though operating into each other via the BWRS-BERS tunnel while being the shuttle.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #5236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
The fastest way before is using the expressway, either drive or ride motor coaches. The current line is not an HSR but a intercity commuter train, it will be using CRH6 and have frequent stops, maybe when the full line is in service (including the connection to Zhuhai Sanzhao Airport) then an express service will be offered.

Regarding the shuttle train, currently there are physical tracks connecting the three stations, especially considering the one between Beijing West and Beijing South is a direct connection. Beijing (east) Station is a terminal station so if a shuttle is setup it will have to go from East --> South --> West, if a connection line is built between East and West then the shuttle can run in a loop.
I'm surprised there was no old railway between Zhuhai and Guangzhou before this line, hell even a line between GZ and Macau. As for Beijing a free loop connector would be nice. I'm not sure how often people need to transfer stations though.


moving on...

I've found some interesting articles about new intercity lines Guangzhou -> Foshan, Guangzhou -> Huizhou and it was mentioned somewhere before about another intercity line between Guangzhou and Shenzhen? Anyone know more about these new CRH intercity lines?

Regional integration makes headway in Pearl River Delta
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/20...t_15907654.htm
Quote:
Wang Jianhui, an associate professor at South China Normal University in Guangzhou, recently bought a new apartment in the city of Zhongshan, about 80 km away from where he works.

"I made my purchase decision for two key reasons: the house there is much cheaper than in Guangzhou, and the transportation is extremely convenient."

"I can either drive to my new house via the expressways or take the intercity light rail there."

Almost for the same reasons, many people who work in Guangzhou have chosen to buy houses in other Pearl River Delta cities outside Guangzhou and more people will follow suit, analysts said.

"The integration of the delta cities has brought about the improvement of traffic conditions. Otherwise, that would not have been possible," they said.

Guangdong began to promote regional integration in 2009 after gaining the approval of the State Council to implement the Outline of the Plan for the Reform and Development of the Pearl River Delta in late 2008.

"Great changes have in fact taken place, and the work of promoting regional integration is forging ahead right on track," according to a recent report released by the Guangdong Academy of Social Sciences.

According to the report, the nine Pearl River Delta cities form three economic circles. One covers Guangzhou, Fo-shan and Zhaoqing; the second is among Shenzhen, Dongguan and Huizhou, and the third is Zhuhai, Zhongshan and Jiangmen. ........
and


Guangzhou-Foshan Inter-city Railway to Be Completed in 2016
http://english.gz.gov.cn/publicfiles...08/953547.html
Quote:
According to the Department of Environmental Protection of Guangdong Province, the Guangzhou-Foshan Inter-city Railway "Foshan West Railway Station–Guangzhou South Railway Station" project, an infrastructure project with the biggest investment so far since the launching of the Guangzhou-Foshan Integration strategy, has passed the environmental assessment on July 31, 2012. Commenced in 2012, the 36-kilometer line is predicted to be finished in 2016, when the distance between Foshan and Guangzhou will be shortened to an 11-minute trip by metro.

In the rail transit network of the Pearl River Delta, this section is connected to the Foshan-Zhaoqing Intercity Railway in the west and the Foshan-Panyu-Dongguan-Huizhou Intercity Railway in the east while intersecting with the Guangzhou-Foshan-Jiangmen-Zhuhai Intercity Railway as well.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 08:03 PM   #5237
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More in the Intercity Railways,

here is a map of the Guangzhou South -> Foshan Intercity Railway
[IMG]http://i50.************/2jaxooz.jpg[/IMG]
source: http://e.rgd.com.cn/home/guangdongno...08-03-422.html


map of Foshan to Zhaoqing Intercity Railway:
[IMG]http://i46.************/292bu4i.jpg[/IMG]
source: http://www.lifeofguangzhou.com/node_...38467747.shtml

I assume these lines will be running CRH1 and CRH6 trains. I love the idea of the integrated Intercity CRH rail.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #5238
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The Guangzhou-Zhuhai line is just the first of a number of intercity commuter train lines planned. This including the Guangzhou-Foshan-Zhaoqin line, Guangzhou-Dongguan-Shenzhen line, Guangzhou-Foshan Loop line, and Dongguan-Huizhou line. All those lines are under construction with various opening dates around 2016.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #5239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Then there must be a reason why there is no direct shuttle between BWRS and BSRS, since the assumption is that Chinese railway administrations act rationally and respond to passenger needs. Perhaps it is a scheduling issue, lack of equipment, lack of electrification on the line?
I don't know, actually the real reason might be the lack of demand, afterall people traveling to those stations to board trains going to two completely different directions, so transferring between the two stations is not that common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
I would rather have the shuttles be unified under the the Beijing suburban railway S series lines. Instead of being a shuttle it would just be a continuation of an existing route from the suburbs. Imagine S3, S4, S5, and S6 though operating into each other via the BWRS-BERS tunnel while being the shuttle.
If Beijing fully develops a intercity commuter train system and use Beijing West and Beijing Station, then that's probably what's gonna happen. I doubt a localized shuttle between Beijing West and Beijing South will be connected to outside lines, it'll affect D and G trains coming in and out of those stations.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:15 PM   #5240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I don't know, actually the real reason might be the lack of demand, afterall people traveling to those stations to board trains going to two completely different directions, so transferring between the two stations is not that common.
Also... on Shenyang-Beijing, there are just 5 trains through Beijing (listed above) and something like 13 terminating slow trains. Whereas Shenyang-Tianjin... Just 8 trains which terminate in Tianjin. And 34 which do not. 5 are for Beijing via Tianjin. But the remaining 29... The routes include
Yanji-Qingdao (K1053/K1056)
Dandong-Shanghai (K187/K190)
Harbin-Hankou (T181/T184)
Harbin-Shanghai (K55/K58)
Harbin-Shijiazhuang (1523/1526)
Dalian-Zhengzhou (K715/K718)
Changchun-Shanghai (K515/K518)
Changchun-Xian (K125/K128)
Harbin-Qingdao (K701/K704)
Harbin-Dezhou (K1545/K1548)
Harbin-Wuchang (K973/K976)
Harbin-Wenzhou
Harbin-Chongqing
Tonghua-Qingdao
Qiqihaer-Xian
Dandong-Qingdao
Mudanjiang-Rizhao
Shenyang-Fuzhou
Changchun-Ningbo
Shenyang-Shenzhen
Harbin-Nanchang
Harbin-Guangzhou (2x daily: K1121/K1124B and T235/T238)
Harbin-Jinan
Shenyang-Taiyuan
Jiamusi-Yantai
Shenyang-Chengdu
Harbin-Hefei
Harbin-Zhengzhou
Shenyang-Wenzhou
Harbin-Nanjing
Changchun-Guangzhou
Tumen-Shanghai.

Routing via Tianjin rather than Beijing is fine for slow trains. But a problem with CRH. There are only 4 daily D trains Shenyang-Tianjin, and rather more on Shenyang-Beijing East. Also, while Tianjin is on high speed line Beijing-Jinan, and onwards to Qingdao, Hefei, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Fuzhou, Xiamen and Longyan, Tianjin is poorly connected to Shijiazhuang, Taiyuan, Xian, Guangzhou and Shenzhen.

What is the best way to route G trains between Tianjin and Shijiazhuang? Via Beijing, or elsewhere?

As of now, the D trains from Manchuria need to use slow railway from Qinhuangdao to Tianjin or Beijing. In which year shall the high speed railway Tianjin-Qinhuangdao be opened, whereupon the whole route from Tianjin to Harbin, Jilin and Dalian shall be no less than 250 km/h?
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