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Old January 10th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #5301
hhzz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Note in the photo that the track is NOT ballast-less.
The designed speed is only 250km/h and the ballastless track is not necessary.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 03:55 PM   #5302
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Hello !

It's my first message here, but I read occasionally this forum. I'm an active participant of high-speed pages on Wikipedia.

Since 1st July 2011, I know that all high-speed line in China was lowered by 50 km/h, with a maximum speed of 300 km/h.

But, I discovered recently (in the message "July 24th, 2012", page 212 of this topic) that it was planned that speed may be raised to 320 km/h
(such as in France).

I saw some videos taken in CRH trains with speed displayed on inboard screens between 300 and 310 km/h.

In the last messages in this topic :
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhzz View Post
The trains on this line can run at 310km/h in maximum,and their average speed is around 220~280km/h which depend on which train you take.
it seems that some lines have been raised to 310 km/h.

Do you know what lines (Canton-Pekin ?), and what trains, are now authorized to 310 km/h ? (with sources if possible).
Thank you.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #5303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Yes it's kinda realistic that a train maxing out at 300-310km/h would go at an average speed of around 280km/h with no intermediate stops but 309km/h sounds a bit unrealistic.
Many trains do not stop. G79, etal. So the termini are Changsha and Guangzhou South. No stops. Push throttle forward and go. 707 kms is the distance between the two.

When I take the train on that line the average speed is very high, very consistent, with few or no slowdowns. The train just cruises at top velocity for the entire duration.

When I rode that line in 2010 it was traveling at over 355kph in places for the 922km journey and we arrived from Wuhan in 3h14m after stopping at many stations and an avg velocity of 285. I think it very likely that a non-stop to Guangzhou would average 309 from Changsha with the current top velocities of 314 which I have seen in this train since the slowdowns.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #5304
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How will the Ministry of Transport do things differently going forward? I hope to see a more holistic approach to transport with not just exclusive focus on one type, but this might just be bureaucratic reshuffling.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #5305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Many trains do not stop. G79, etal. So the termini are Changsha and Guangzhou South. No stops. Push throttle forward and go. 707 kms is the distance between the two.

When I take the train on that line the average speed is very high, very consistent, with few or no slowdowns. The train just cruises at top velocity for the entire duration.

When I rode that line in 2010 it was traveling at over 355kph in places for the 922km journey and we arrived from Wuhan in 3h14m after stopping at many stations and an avg velocity of 285. I think it very likely that a non-stop to Guangzhou would average 309 from Changsha with the current top velocities of 314 which I have seen in this train since the slowdowns.
But the official distance Guangzhou North-Wuhan is 1022 km, not 922.

924 is the real distance.

While Guangzhou South-Changsha is officially 707, the real distance is 621 km.
As of now, the fastest train Wuhan-Guanghou North (924 km) take 3:47 with 3 to 4 intermediate stops
fastest trains Wuhan-Guangzhou South (969 km) take 3:39 with 1 intermediate stop at Changsha, average 265 km/h
fastest trains Changsha-Guangzhou South (621 km) take 2:18 nonstop, average 270 km/h.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #5306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Jan-7 Nanning-Qinzhou HSR completes test run, opening in 2013



This is the 1st HSR rail in Guangxi Province. The new rail is a passenger/freight mix one, 159.813km long with design speed of 250km/h.

Source
Always good to see more High Speed Rail expansion. Is this line going to continue on southeast to Zhanjiang? It looks like most of the smaller lines are 200-250km/h lines. Why not make them all designed for 350km/h to "future proof" the lines. Maybe it's too expensive or the shorter distances won't make much more of a time savings with a 100-150km/h increase in speed.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #5307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyAkwa View Post
Hello !

It's my first message here, but I read occasionally this forum. I'm an active participant of high-speed pages on Wikipedia.

Since 1st July 2011, I know that all high-speed line in China was lowered by 50 km/h, with a maximum speed of 300 km/h.

But, I discovered recently (in the message "July 24th, 2012", page 212 of this topic) that it was planned that speed may be raised to 320 km/h
(such as in France).

I saw some videos taken in CRH trains with speed displayed on inboard screens between 300 and 310 km/h.

In the last messages in this topic :

it seems that some lines have been raised to 310 km/h.

Do you know what lines (Canton-Pekin ?), and what trains, are now authorized to 310 km/h ? (with sources if possible).
Thank you.
The speed limit has not been officially risen, but apparently it's not as strictly enforced as before. I have seen trains go as fast as 312km/h on a 300km/h line. Different railway bureaus have different policies regarding overspeeding, in the past Wuhan Railway Bureau being one of the stricter one will fine drivers who went more than 5km/h over speed limit.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #5308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Always good to see more High Speed Rail expansion. Is this line going to continue on southeast to Zhanjiang? It looks like most of the smaller lines are 200-250km/h lines. Why not make them all designed for 350km/h to "future proof" the lines. Maybe it's too expensive or the shorter distances won't make much more of a time savings with a 100-150km/h increase in speed.
This line will eventually extend to Fangchenggang, but not Zhanjiang. It's capped at 250km/h because it's not a PDL, but rather conventional railway shared with freight traffic.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #5309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I think it very likely that a non-stop to Guangzhou would average 309 from Changsha with the current top velocities of 314 which I have seen in this train since the slowdowns.
Very, very unlikely.


Much more likely is they use the old, longer distance for calculating the price, and then display that distance as it is more 'impressive'.

However, to calculate the average speed, you need the REAL, actual distance.

An average of 309 km/h when cruising speed is 300 km/h, with occasional excesses towards 310 or 314 km/h is just not plausible.

Even if the train was going direct with no stops, and accelerated and decelerated quickly and had a constant speed of 314 km/h (which is not the case), it would be VERY difficult to get to a 309 km/h average speed.


Occam's razor applies here: the simplest and most obvious answer is most likely to be true.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 12:16 AM   #5310
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There is one month left of the year. The tickets for year end travel have been sold.

Has it become known by now whether Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed railway shall open this year or in Snake Year?
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Old January 11th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #5311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
This line will eventually extend to Fangchenggang, but not Zhanjiang. It's capped at 250km/h because it's not a PDL, but rather conventional railway shared with freight traffic.
I see, just a little bit longer.

So are all Passenger Dedicated Lines (PDL's) built to 350km/h design? I would imagine they would be 250km/h if they go through rough terrain.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 02:56 AM   #5312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyAkwa View Post
Hello !

It's my first message here, but I read occasionally this forum. I'm an active participant of high-speed pages on Wikipedia.

Since 1st July 2011, I know that all high-speed line in China was lowered by 50 km/h, with a maximum speed of 300 km/h.

But, I discovered recently (in the message "July 24th, 2012", page 212 of this topic) that it was planned that speed may be raised to 320 km/h
(such as in France).

I saw some videos taken in CRH trains with speed displayed on inboard screens between 300 and 310 km/h.

In the last messages in this topic :

it seems that some lines have been raised to 310 km/h.

Do you know what lines (Canton-Pekin ?), and what trains, are now authorized to 310 km/h ? (with sources if possible).
Thank you.
The G-trains(those track with a ≥350km/h speed designed) have run at a top speed around 300~310km/h since 1st July,2011.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 03:45 AM   #5313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post

Always good to see more High Speed Rail expansion. Is this line going to continue on southeast to Zhanjiang? It looks like most of the smaller lines are 200-250km/h lines. Why not make them all designed for 350km/h to "future proof" the lines. Maybe it's too expensive or the shorter distances won't make much more of a time savings with a 100-150km/h increase in speed.
Apart from cost and distance this is also a freight rail. It's currently not economically feasible to have freight trains running on 300kmph tracks.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 03:58 AM   #5314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I see, just a little bit longer.

So are all Passenger Dedicated Lines (PDL's) built to 350km/h design? I would imagine they would be 250km/h if they go through rough terrain.
No,not all the PDL lines have a 350km/h speed designed,they also have 250 and some are even lower(200km/h).
Right,take the Shanghai-Kunming HSR for example,Shanghai-Changsha section has a 350km/h speed designed compared to 250km/h Changsha-Kunming section,which will get through many mountainous and high altitude areas.It's difficult to build HSR there.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 06:37 PM   #5315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I see, just a little bit longer.

So are all Passenger Dedicated Lines (PDL's) built to 350km/h design? I would imagine they would be 250km/h if they go through rough terrain.
No, not all PDLs are 250km/h but all 350km/h lines are PDL. Notable example will be the PDL between Shenzhen North and Kowloon is a 200km/h line.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #5316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
No, not all PDLs are 250km/h but all 350km/h lines are PDL. Notable example will be the PDL between Shenzhen North and Kowloon is a 200km/h line.
Large part of the HK section will go in an underground tunnel, right?
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Old January 12th, 2013, 12:49 AM   #5317
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Quote:
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Large part of the HK section will go in an underground tunnel, right?
Replace "large" with "all", and it would be right.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 02:03 AM   #5318
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Regarding to 2015, some sources say a 40000 km network while some say a 18000 km network. What is the exact measures used by both. My guess is
18000 (Includes only 300-350 km trains and 200-250 km trains)
40000 (Also includes z-trains, trains that has been lowered to 160 kmh from 200 kmh from wenzhou)
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Old January 12th, 2013, 04:34 AM   #5319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kw0943 View Post
Regarding to 2015, some sources say a 40000 km network while some say a 18000 km network. What is the exact measures used by both. My guess is
18000 (Includes only 300-350 km trains and 200-250 km trains)
40000 (Also includes z-trains, trains that has been lowered to 160 kmh from 200 kmh from wenzhou)
When I look at the planned CRH map and the extant map of regular rail in China, it occurs to me that they may upgrade half of the 'normal' rail in China to 200kmh to get to that 40000 km figure.

I have read several stories where they state that once they finish the CRH PDL's they will then take that expertise and knowledge and use it to upgrade the slower 76kmh normal rail to 200.

20000 PDL CRH 200, 250, 350 kmh
20000 upgraded passenger and freight lines
60000 old style passenger and freight lines
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Old January 12th, 2013, 04:37 AM   #5320
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Quote:
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I have read several stories where they state that once they finish the CRH PDL's they will then take that expertise and knowledge and use it to upgrade the slower 76kmh normal rail to 200.
76km/h? What is that about? Do you mean 120-160km/h non-hispeed lines?
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