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Old January 27th, 2013, 12:41 AM   #5401
chornedsnorkack
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Zhangjiakou-Beijing (mountains likely mean this track will be 200kph or much less)
Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan is Taihangshan mountains, too, but it is 250 km/h.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 05:48 AM   #5402
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1.27 Qingdao-Jinan will build 350km/h HSR

It's approved by Shandong government and MOR. Project preparation will start in 2013.



The current 250km/h "D" train between the two cities can not satisfy the growing traffic volume. The new "G" CRH will take 1.5 hours travelling between the two major cities of Shandong Province.

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Old January 27th, 2013, 09:00 AM   #5403
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nice

i always thought those 'early' sub-300kph projects will have to be complemented by new lines given the huge population
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Old January 27th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #5404
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Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan is Taihangshan mountains, too, but it is 250 km/h.
Those trains often are at 80 to 140kph when going through multiple mountain tunnels. They do it for the Xian-Zhengzhou run.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #5405
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There are only 15 days left of the year, people are already buying tickets and travelling for New Year.

Has the Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed line been confirmed to open before Dragon Year ends?
"This year" means within 2013, not within Year of the Dragon.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 12:35 AM   #5406
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
1.27 Qingdao-Jinan will build 350km/h HSR

It's approved by Shandong government and MOR. Project preparation will start in 2013.



The current 250km/h "D" train between the two cities can not satisfy the growing traffic volume. The new "G" CRH will take 1.5 hours travelling between the two major cities of Shandong Province.

source
This is great news. Will this count as an intercity line like the Shanghai-Nanging or Beijing-Tianjin? I wonder if this was part of the 4+4 plan.

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Those trains often are at 80 to 140kph when going through multiple mountain tunnels. They do it for the Xian-Zhengzhou run.
Why is that? Will changing air pressure cause damage to the train if it went any faster?
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Old January 28th, 2013, 04:19 AM   #5407
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This is great news. Will this count as an intercity line like the Shanghai-Nanging or Beijing-Tianjin? I wonder if this was part of the 4+4 plan.
From the planning the new 350km/h HSR when completed will be merged into national HSR nework while the exiting 250km/h will serve as intercity line.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 08:15 AM   #5408
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Why is that? Will changing air pressure cause damage to the train if it went any faster?
I do not know and can only speculate.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #5409
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I compiled a selection of long high speed lines:

1) 2223 km Beijing-Fuzhou
1 pair daily; 2nd class 673 yuan, upper soft sleeper 1162 yuan, lower soft sleeper 1309 yuan
there D365, 15:10, 23 stops
back D366, 15:31, 23 stops
2) 2202 km Beijing-Shenzhen
1 pair daily; 2nd class 936 yuan 5 jiao, 1st class 1479 yuan 5 jiao
there G71, 10:16, 15 stops
back G72, 10:25, 15 stops
3) 2100 km Beijing-Guangzhou
2 pairs daily, + includes Beijing-Shenzhen 1 pair; 2nd class 862 yuan, 1st class 1380 yuan
there G79, 7:59, 4 stops
and G81, 9:27, 12 stops
and G71, 9:48, 14 stops
back G80, 7:59, 4 stops
and G82, 9:40, 15 stops
and G72, 9:51, 13 stops
4) 2043 km Taiyuan-Guangzhou
1 pair daily; 2nd class 851 yuan, 1st class 1335 yuan
there G624/G621, 10:02, 14 stops
back G622/G623, 9:48, 12 stops
5) 2012 km Xian-Shenzhen
1 pair daily; 2nd class 890 yuan, 1st class 1405 yuan, VIP seat 1672 yuan
there G824/G821, 9:34, 12 stops
back G826/G827, 9:33, 13 stops
6) 2003 km also Xian-Shenzhen (what is the difference?)
another 1 pair daily; 2nd class 888 yuan, 1st class 1401 yuan, no VIP seat on that pair
there G822/G823, 9:42, 14 stops
back G828/G825, 9:23, 13 stops
7) 1901 km Xian-Guangzhou
4 pairs daily, +includes Xian-Shenzhen 2 pairs; 2nd class 813 yuan 5 jiao, 1st class 1301 yuan 5 jiao. VIP seat offered on 1 pair of the 4 namely G842/G839 and G840/G841, price 1548 yuan 5 jiao.
there fastest G98/G95, 7:40, 3 stops
slowest G842/G839, 12 stops
back fastest G96, 7:40, 3 stops
slowest G840/G841, 9:09, 13 stops
8) 1819 km Shijiazhuang-Guangzhou
1 pair daily, +includes 2 pairs Beijing-Guangzhou, 1 pair Beijing-Shenzhen and 1 pair Taiyuan-Guangzhou; 2nd class 785 yuan 5 jiao, 1st class 1256 yuan 5 jiao
there G531, 8:31, 11 stops
back G532, 8:13, 12 stops
9) 1580 km Nanjing-Nanjing-Longyan
1 pair daily; 2nd class 467 yuan, 1st class 561 yuan
there D3135/D3138, 12:49, 32 stops
back D3137/D3136, 12:36, 28 stops
10) 1538 km Zhengzhou-Shenzhen
2 pairs daily, +includes 1 pair Beijing-Shenzhen and 2 pairs Xian-Shenzhen; 2nd class 727 yuan 5 Jiao, 1st class 1145 yuan 5 jiao, VIP seat offered on 1 pair G73 and G76 price 1363 yuan 5 jiao
there G73, 6:57, 9 stops
and G75, 7:04, 11 stops
back G76, 6:41, 8 stops
and G74, 7:07, 10 stops
11) 1503 km Xian-Shanghai, unknown route Zhengzhou-Nanjing
1 pair nightly; 2nd class 338 yuan, upper soft sleeper 741 yuan, lower soft sleeper 834 yuan
there D308/D305, 10:46, 7 stops
back D306/D307, 10:40, 7 stops
12) 1487 km Beijing-Hangzhou
7 pairs daily, +includes 1 pair Beijing-Fuzhou; 2nd class 629 yuan, 1st class 1056 yuan
there fastest G35, 6:18, 6 stops
slowest G33, 6:40, 9 stops
same number of stops made in 6:31 by G37 and G41
back fastest G42, 6:24, 8 stops
slowest G34, 6:41, 9 stops
most stops G44, 6:38, 10 stops
13) 1482 km Beijing-Changsha
4 pairs daily, +includes 1 pair Beijing-Shenzhen and 2 pairs Beijing-Guangzhou; 2nd class 649 yuan, 1st class 1038 yuan, VIP seat offered on all 4 pairs, price 1235 yuan
there fastest G83, 5:40, 3 stops
slowest G505, 6:51, 11 stops
back fastest G84, 5:40, 3 stops
slowest G506, 6:37, 10 stops
14) 1454 km Beijing-Shanghai
3 pairs nightly; 2nd class 309 yuan, upper soft sleeper 615 yuan, lower soft sleeper 696 yuan
there fastest D313, 11:41, 2 stops
slower D311 and D321, 11:42, 2 stops
back fastest D312, 11:37, 2 stops
slower D314 and D322, 11:38, 2 stops
15) 1445 km Zhengzhou-Guangzhou
1 pair daily, +includes 4 pairs Xian-Guangzhou and 1 pair Xian-Shenzhen; second class 656 yuan, first class, 1050 yuan
there G93, 5:39, 2 stops
back G546, 6:51, 9 stops
16) 1436 km Zhengzhou East-Guangzhou
4 pairs daily +includes 1 pair Xian-Shenzhen, 2 pairs Zhengzhou-Shenzhen, 1 pair Beijing-Shenzhen, 2 pairs Beijing-Guangzhou, 1 pair Taiyuan-Guangzhou, 1 pair Shijiazhuang-Guangzhou; second class 653 yuan, first class 1046 yuan, VIP seat offered on 2 pairs of 4, price 1244 yuan
there fastest G545, 6:13, 7 stops
slowest G543, 6:32, 10 stops
same number of stops is done in 6:28 by G547
back fastest G94, 5:28, 2 stops
slowest G542, 6:39, 9 stops
most stops G548, 6:34, 10 stops
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Old January 28th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #5410
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Quote:
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Why is that? Will changing air pressure cause damage to the train if it went any faster?
Multiple tunnels in close proximity means tunnel booms can't be dissipated fully so it will not only increase air resistance but potentially induce damages to the tunnel entrance. This is especially bad when the tunnels are long so more pressure can be build up inside. It's less of an issue when tunnel is stand alone, on the Beijing-Shanghai line the trains routinely go through tunnels at close to 300km/h.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 03:27 AM   #5411
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Multiple tunnels in close proximity means tunnel booms can't be dissipated fully so it will not only increase air resistance but potentially induce damages to the tunnel entrance. This is especially bad when the tunnels are long so more pressure can be build up inside. It's less of an issue when tunnel is stand alone, on the Beijing-Shanghai line the trains routinely go through tunnels at close to 300km/h.
I've travelled on HSR where parts of the line are in "multiple tunnels", and they were at full speed (300kmh). Not very sure what's going on here. Could it be that the bore diameter for these tunnels are tighter, making the tunnel boom more serious?
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Old January 29th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #5412
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CRH in Chongqing



[email protected]天下火车
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Old January 29th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #5413
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Multiple tunnels in close proximity means tunnel booms can't be dissipated fully so it will not only increase air resistance but potentially induce damages to the tunnel entrance. This is especially bad when the tunnels are long so more pressure can be build up inside. It's less of an issue when tunnel is stand alone, on the Beijing-Shanghai line the trains routinely go through tunnels at close to 300km/h.
No, tunnel boom concerns only area of tunnel cross-section vs the pressure impulse given by a function of speed and the shape of the train nose.

Trains routinely go through tunnels at 300km/h all over the world.

I don't know how you think a boom wouldn't dissipate due to an adjacent tunnel?
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Old January 30th, 2013, 01:11 AM   #5414
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I was surprised to see that a high speed train will have to slow down to 80km/h for tunnels on the Xian-Zhengzhou line. I've read that trains do slow down for tunnels like in Spain but nothing extremely slow.


Thanks big-dog for the Chongqing picture with the CRH1E. I'm happy to how that the Chongqiing-Chengdu Intercity Railway will be a 350 km/h line according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu...ercity_Railway . I somehow thought it would be a 250 km/h line due to the terrain but faster is always better when it comes to trains in my opinion.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 10:03 AM   #5415
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I was surprised to see that a high speed train will have to slow down to 80km/h for tunnels on the Xian-Zhengzhou line. I've read that trains do slow down for tunnels like in Spain but nothing extremely slow.
It's not true. Last time I was on the Xi'an–Zhengzhou line, it was 280+ km/h. Perhaps he was not lucky on that day.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #5416
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I know this a development thread, but I would like to ask - hopefully - one last question about traveling with Chinese bullet trains.

I heard that the bullet trains are usually overcrowded, especially in the peek hours. So it's recommended to buy the tickets in advance.

My question is, how advance my purchase should be if I'd like to have a sure seat on the G1102 7:00 Guangzhou South - Wuhan, and the D3088 12:15 Wuhan - Shanghai trains?

Since I haven't been to China yet, I'm sadly not familiar with the ticketing system. Is it possible buying a ticket in advance for the previous CRH trains e. g. at the Zhuhai "Gongbei" Railway Station (or in Macau / HKG)?

Or my concern is absolutely unnecessary, and I should just walk up to the counter on the day of my travel at Guangzhou South a few hours before my trains leaves and I would be able to buy my tickets?
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Old January 30th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #5417
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I was surprised to see that a high speed train will have to slow down to 80km/h for tunnels on the Xian-Zhengzhou line. I've read that trains do slow down for tunnels like in Spain but nothing extremely slow.
There are lots of misapprehensions out there about tunnels and HSR speed. In the UK many people still think the trains have to slow down for all the tunnels, when they don't - only the ones near London are restricted below linespeed, so a smaller tunnel cross-section can be used without affecting journey times.

Where it would affect journey times however, they just build a bigger tunnel

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Old January 30th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #5418
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My question is, how advance my purchase should be if I'd like to have a sure seat on the G1102 7:00 Guangzhou South - Wuhan, and the D3088 12:15 Wuhan - Shanghai trains?
Not possible to answer, as you didn't tell us what date you'd like to travel. Watch http://yupiao.info/ for the remaining ticket count, if the numbers become critical low, it might be wise to get yours as soon as possible.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 10:34 AM   #5419
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I've travelled on HSR where parts of the line are in "multiple tunnels", and they were at full speed (300kmh). Not very sure what's going on here. Could it be that the bore diameter for these tunnels are tighter, making the tunnel boom more serious?
Multiple short tunnels are fine, but multiple long tunnels is more likely to cause problem. I have to agree though, that slowing to 80km/h is extremely unlikely to be caused by tunnels, actually I doubt it will slow to that speed at all, probably from 300km/h to 200km/h, but 80? No.

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No, tunnel boom concerns only area of tunnel cross-section vs the pressure impulse given by a function of speed and the shape of the train nose.

Trains routinely go through tunnels at 300km/h all over the world.

I don't know how you think a boom wouldn't dissipate due to an adjacent tunnel?
Of course trains routinely go 300km/h through tunnels around the world, but do they do that when the tunnel is a few kilometers long and the next tunnel is only a couple of hundred meters away? With tunnels of the same diameter, the longer it is the higher pressure will build up inside, similar to a gun barrel
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Old January 31st, 2013, 12:01 PM   #5420
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Not possible to answer, as you didn't tell us what date you'd like to travel. Watch http://yupiao.info/ for the remaining ticket count, if the numbers become critical low, it might be wise to get yours as soon as possible.
Two months from now. Thx for the link.
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