daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 24th, 2013, 12:31 AM   #5481
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by admns View Post
I agree with this statement. And this is an example station.
Compare with some modern stations - low speed, not high speed - in Germany:

Rickling (population 3300)
http://zierke.com/shasta_route/picpa...kling-3-o.html

And another station:
http://zierke.com/shasta_route/picpages/3476.html

How many stations like these does China need, in villages/small towns of a few thousand inhabitants?

These stations generally have at least one train per hour - often two. Not one or two trains per day. But the trains themselves - you can see the train of a single car and two doors a side....
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 24th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #5482
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

it won't look good, until they refocus on those rail projects, and also thousands and thousands of kms of subways and tramways
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 04:27 AM   #5483
laojang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 125
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by admns View Post
to summerise the speed of trains i have done some research to find average speed all catagories of trains:

K trains ( aka ordinary express ) have average speed of 50km/hr.

T trains (aka superfast express ) have average speed of 80km/hr.

D trains( aka slow speed hsr ) have average speed of 160km/hr.

G trains ( aka high speed hsr ) have average speed of 250-300km/hr [according to routes and specific trains.][*ONLY AVAILABLE IN SOME SPECIFIC ROUTES]

lines constructed for 350km/hr -10,000.
Lines under construction for 350km/hr -10,000.
(Approx.)
The average speed for most K trains including stops is around 60km-70km/h. See for example http://www.huochepiao.com/.

Laojang
laojang no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 09:55 AM   #5484
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Compare with some modern stations - low speed, not high speed - in Germany:

Rickling (population 3300)
http://zierke.com/shasta_route/picpa...kling-3-o.html

And another station:
http://zierke.com/shasta_route/picpages/3476.html

How many stations like these does China need, in villages/small towns of a few thousand inhabitants?

These stations generally have at least one train per hour - often two. Not one or two trains per day. But the trains themselves - you can see the train of a single car and two doors a side....
Here are some small stations in Heilongjiang, a lot of those villages are served by primitive commuter trains, often a couple in the morning and a couple in the afternoon to bring people to and from larger townships, the train tickets are extremely cheap but they use those stripped out old Type 25 carriages that look like trains in India.
http://xuefengshi2000.blog.163.com/b...1272602310945/
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #5485
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Here are some small stations in Heilongjiang, a lot of those villages are served by primitive commuter trains, often a couple in the morning and a couple in the afternoon to bring people to and from larger townships,
This is the region where train traffic starts to get useful, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Two questions:
What is the most common standard for train floor height on these commuter railways?
What are these small station buildings used for, currently? Like - ticket sales desk? Waiting halls? Toilets open to public? Working rooms for railway personnel?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #5486
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Two questions:
What is the most common standard for train floor height on these commuter railways?
What are these small station buildings used for, currently? Like - ticket sales desk? Waiting halls? Toilets open to public? Working rooms for railway personnel?
Those are simply old 25B carriages retired from mainstream service used as commuter rail, they are primitive trains for the peasants, so there is no special consideration whatsoever to make them suitable as commuter trains. From what I know the station house are usually used as ticket office and railway personnel's offices, most of them also has a small counter to sell snacks and drinks, I'm not sure whether they have restrooms, I assume the passengers probably can just do their business outside the station wall in the field.
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 10:54 AM   #5487
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What is the actual top speed of D trains?

I have some suspicions.

For example, on Beijing-Jinan

All nonstop G trains (16 of them) cover the distance in 1:32.
1 stop is often done in 1:38 or 1:39, but sometimes takes longer.
The only G train that makes all 4 stops takes 2:16!

Among the D trains one (D331) covers the distance in 1:46 with 2 stops - quite reasonable for a G train. And 3 trains - D401 to D405 - manage to make all 4 stops in 1:59!

The other D trains travel 2:10 to 2:47.

Considering the examples of D331 and D401-D405, do D trains actually travel any slower than G trains?
I think D trains used on Beijing-Shanghai line are all capable of doing 300km/h, and they do travel at that speed. So it only depends on the number of stations they stop, if they stop at the same number of stations with the same durations, then they will match G trains' speed, in occasions may even exceed G trains.

__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 11:06 AM   #5488
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
On the contrary, they often look cool
They look cool and Retro, but the trains travel at 60 kph and people will want faster travel.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #5489
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by admns View Post
to summerise the speed of trains i have done some research to find average speed all catagories of trains:

K trains ( aka ordinary express ) have average speed of 50km/hr.

T trains (aka superfast express ) have average speed of 80km/hr.

D trains( aka slow speed hsr ) have average speed of 160km/hr.

G trains ( aka high speed hsr ) have average speed of 250-300km/hr [according to routes and specific trains.][*ONLY AVAILABLE IN SOME SPECIFIC ROUTES]

lines constructed for 350km/hr -10,000.
Lines under construction for 350km/hr -10,000.
(Approx.)
My estimates based upon riding trains are a bit higher.

K, L and N trains have average speed of 65-75km/hr.

T trains (aka superfast express ) have average speed of 90km/hr.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 05:05 PM   #5490
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Those are simply old 25B carriages retired from mainstream service used as commuter rail, they are primitive trains for the peasants, so there is no special consideration whatsoever to make them suitable as commuter trains.
Where specifically in Heilongjiang are these stations?

Heilongjiang is generally a poor province, but Daqing is one of the richest cities in China.

There is already a high speed railway Harbin-Changchun-Dalian. Between Harbin and Changchun, Fuyu North, 98 km from Harbin West, is already outside Heilongjiang border in Jilin, but Shuangcheng North, 40 km from Harbin West, is in Heilongjiang.

What is Shuangcheng North station like?

It is late February now. The sun is getting higher, and days longer.

Has it been disclosed when exactly in Spring shall the Harbin-Shuangcheng-Dalian high speed railway be sped up from 200 km/h to 300 km/h?

Also, on the old railway, Harbin-Qiqihar is 288 km. Daqing is 159 km from Harbin, and 129 km from Qiqihar.

How is the current state of progress of Harbin-Qiqihar high speed railway?

In which year shall Harbin-Qiqihar high speed railway open for service? How many stations shall it have, and what is the design speed? Shall the line be suitable for CRH6?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 06:07 AM   #5491
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

Nanjing HSR dept



by 中华火车迷部落@weibo
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 06:40 AM   #5492
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31

Just one quick comment

I think the T (Te Kuai)in T trains stand for Special or Especially, as opposed to Super or Very. So the best translation for Special Fast would actually be Express.

And the K in K trains I think is just Fast.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 06:46 AM   #5493
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I

It will not look good when China has 16k kms of 320 rail and they still have trainsets, stations and track that looks like it is from the 1950's.
Why not? If all that the old tracks are going to run are regular speed trains or slow freight trains, I would suspect that the tracks that "look like" they are from the 1950's would serve its purpose fine. No point spending money on something that works.

If you think 1950 is bad, here in Canada we not only have tracks that "looks like" it is from the 1900's, We actually have tracks (especially signal's) that are from the 1900's.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #5494
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

A major expansion of the existing Nanjing Station is underway with planned completion in 2014. It integrates the six tracks dedicated to Shanghai-Nanjing ICL with a new station house, subway connection, underground parking, and a long distance bus terminal.

It's one of the few downtown stations in a major Chinese city that still has room to expand, the new station house separate boarding of HSR and conventional trains, allow the ICL more room to grow. A large underground transit hall will be build for Metro Line 3 and Line 9. The existing Nanjing East Bus Terminal will also be moved to this new location.

After completion next year the new Nanjing Station will sit at the bottom of the Hongshan Zoo and face Xuanwuhu Lake, arguably one of the most scenic railway stations in China.



__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.

Pansori, big-dog liked this post
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #5495
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
Why not? If all that the old tracks are going to run are regular speed trains or slow freight trains, I would suspect that the tracks that "look like" they are from the 1950's would serve its purpose fine. No point spending money on something that works.

If you think 1950 is bad, here in Canada we not only have tracks that "looks like" it is from the 1900's, We actually have tracks (especially signal's) that are from the 1900's.
Well, frankly, comparing Western Hemisphere rail (trainset and railway stock often 60-120+ years old) to NE Asia HSR is not very wise.

China and Japan and Korea have modern, sometimes state of the art, rail and the USA, Mexico and Canada have...museum pieces that function. That's great with wide open spaces but China has crowded right of ways and upgrading those 19th C. travel speeds to above 60kph average would be very smart considering the modern CRH travels at 4 to 5 X that avg speed.

They are NOT working and most slower trains get stuck behind (very necessary) freight and dry bulk haul loads.

China needs to double regular rail handling due to the wealth effect and more citizens traveling more often. How they will do this is currently unknown but would logically be the next step after this round of CRH winds down in 3 to 5 years.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #5496
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,962
Likes (Received): 18222

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Well, frankly, comparing Western Hemisphere rail (trainset and railway stock often 60-120+ years old) to NE Asia HSR is not very wise.

China and Japan and Korea have modern, sometimes state of the art, rail and the USA, Mexico and Canada have...museum pieces that function. That's great with wide open spaces but China has crowded right of ways and upgrading those 19th C. travel speeds to above 60kph average would be very smart considering the modern CRH travels at 4 to 5 X that avg speed.

They are NOT working and most slower trains get stuck behind (very necessary) freight and dry bulk haul loads.

China needs to double regular rail handling due to the wealth effect and more citizens traveling more often. How they will do this is currently unknown but would logically be the next step after this round of CRH winds down in 3 to 5 years.
I think the current CRH tracks can handle far more capacity. So far, frequencies on the major lines can still be bunched up further, like what I've seen in Taiwan (departures every 10-20 minutes).
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 08:11 PM   #5497
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I think the current CRH tracks can handle far more capacity. So far, frequencies on the major lines can still be bunched up further, like what I've seen in Taiwan (departures every 10-20 minutes).
Like or even further. THSR is not full. For example, at morning rush hour, between 9:00 and 10:00, there are 5 trains in the hour from Taibei towards Taichung - departing 9:00, 9:18, 9:30 (express), 9:36 and 9:54 (the second express).

During the same rush hour, Tokaido Shinkansen has 10 trains from Tokyo towards Nagoya:
9:00 - Nozomi to Osaka
9:03 - Hikari to Okayama
9:10 - Nozomi to Hakata
9:20 - Nozomi to Osaka
9:26 - Kodama to Nagoya
9:30 - Nozomi to Hakata
9:33 - Hikari to Osaka
9:40 - Nozomi to Osaka
9:50 - Nozomi to Hiroshima
9:56 - Kodama to Osaka

Tokaido Shinkansen widely is regarded as full. Since all Tokaido Shinkansen trains are 16 cars while all THSR cars are 12 cars, THSR has 60 cars at rush hour, but Tokaido Shinkansen 160.

Beijing-Jinan has 3 trains departing between 9:00 and 10:00, and 7 trains departing between 8:00 and 9:00:
8:00 (express), 8:05, 8:10, 8:15, 8:22 (D), 8:38 and 8:53 (D).
Beijing-Shijiazhuang has just 4 between 8:00 and 9:00:
8:00, 8:21, 8:30 and 8:43.

So, the main lines of China do have some spare space, and frequencies could be increased.

But this still does not serve enough stations!
And even if infill stations were built on existing CRH lines, this does not serve destinations off the CRH lines.

So speeding up the slow lines is still necessary.

Last edited by chornedsnorkack; February 25th, 2013 at 08:37 PM.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 09:19 AM   #5498
hhzz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Guilin
Posts: 428
Likes (Received): 1274

China's high - speed railway line linking Beijing and Shanghai has recorded over 100 million passenger trips since it started operation in June 2011, railway authorities announced on Thursday.
Built with an investment of 217.6 billion yuan (34.7 billion US dollars), the 1,318-kmrailway linking Beijing and Shanghai has shortened the travel time between the two major cities to about five hours from the previous eight hours or more.
hhzz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 09:20 AM   #5499
hhzz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Guilin
Posts: 428
Likes (Received): 1274

Delete
hhzz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 07:01 PM   #5500
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

Quote:
Originally Posted by admns View Post
I agree with this statement. And this is an example station.



Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Nanjing HSR dept



by 中华火车迷部落@weibo
Both beautiful pictures, I feel that the old looks just as good as the new!
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium