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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #5521
Sunfuns
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Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
You also have to consider the purchasing power of the population. China has a very small middle class and upper class compared to the lower class. Beijing-Shanghai has good market value because most of the purchasing power is there.
Hong Kong is probably richer than both Shanghai and Beijing. Are there still some restrictions for mainland Chinese for travel there?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #5522
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Hong Kong is probably richer than both Shanghai and Beijing. Are there still some restrictions for mainland Chinese for travel there?
Hong Kong's house pricing went up due to the mass influx of Mainlanders (btw, it's very easy to go to HK now, from the Mainlaind), but Hong Kong is probably still not as rich as Beijing and Shanghai. Those two cities are the financial and economic hubs of the entire nation. True, Hong Kong is an international trade hub, but it is one city compared to a country. Besides, it seems that most HongKongers seem reluctant to go into China.

*Observations from a newcomer...
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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #5523
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Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Hong Kong's house pricing went up due to the mass influx of Mainlanders (btw, it's very easy to go to HK now, from the Mainlaind), but Hong Kong is probably still not as rich as Beijing and Shanghai. Those two cities are the financial and economic hubs of the entire nation. True, Hong Kong is an international trade hub, but it is one city compared to a country. Besides, it seems that most HongKongers seem reluctant to go into China.

*Observations from a newcomer...
Right, but how about average incomes in Hong Kong versus Shanghai or Beijing (including migrant workers)? Never been to Hong Kong, but my understanding was that the percentage of middle class is significantly higher there.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:42 PM   #5524
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Hong Kong is probably richer than both Shanghai and Beijing. Are there still some restrictions for mainland Chinese for travel there?
Hong Kong might be rich, but that doesn't mean a train from Hong Kong-Beijing will be busier than Shanghai-Beijing, which is basically what this discussion was about: which will be the busiest HSR corridor in China?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #5525
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Hong Kong might be rich, but that doesn't mean a train from Hong Kong-Beijing will be busier than Shanghai-Beijing, which is basically what this discussion was about: which will be the busiest HSR corridor in China?
Which will be longer - Hong Kong-Beijing or Hong Kong-Shanghai? And which will be busier?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:51 PM   #5526
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Hong Kong might be rich, but that doesn't mean a train from Hong Kong-Beijing will be busier than Shanghai-Beijing, which is basically what this discussion was about: which will be the busiest HSR corridor in China?
That's true. My bet would be on Beijing-Shanghai.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 01:24 AM   #5527
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Which will be longer - Hong Kong-Beijing or Hong Kong-Shanghai? And which will be busier?
I think both those routes aren't very good territory for HSR. Someone wanting to go from Hong Kong to Beijing or Shanghai will take the airplane.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 01:43 AM   #5528
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Yes, Beijing - Shanghai is just inside the limit for when you normally would pick train over flight travel. Just considering how long it takes getting to the airport and stand in line there as opposed to jumping on a train. However, as it is right now the price on the tickets will be a key indicator too, as the train ride still takes up to an hour more for the average traveller. However, once they bump up the train speed a bit more, I have no doubt that this line will get smack full to the brink of the when the government is considering a second line. Just like how Japan is making a new line between Tokyo and Osaka. Perhaps China will start on a maglev line, or something even more futuristic, like an evacuated tube? That would blow my mind away!

In fact, these evacuated tubes needs to see the light of day soon! They will make PDL trainlines obsolete, but who cares?

Evacuated tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92dK_yxaKvk

Or a Gravity train:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EapvQ3ALYJY
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Old March 6th, 2013, 03:50 AM   #5529
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I was in Xi'an/Baoji for Chinese New Year. Travelling from Xi'an to Baoji by road I saw that the viaducts for the Xi'an-Baoji HSR line was finished, but electrification installations remain incomplete. Hopefully they can have the line up and running in the middle of the year.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 03:59 AM   #5530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Right, but how about average incomes in Hong Kong versus Shanghai or Beijing (including migrant workers)? Never been to Hong Kong, but my understanding was that the percentage of middle class is significantly higher there.
Hong Kong's average income is at First World levels and is still significantly higher than even the richest Chinese cities. GDP per capita, per World Bank, was USD 35,156. (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD)

The key question is whether it makes sense to switch to HSR than to continue flying. At 2000 km, I think flying to Beijing still has a significant advantage, and is very affordable given the high incomes.

What I think will change is how people reach the rest of Guangdong. It will no longer make sense to take a bus to, say, Guangzhou, so train use between Guangzhou - Hong Kong will likely increase dramatically.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 04:43 AM   #5531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
Yes, Beijing - Shanghai is just inside the limit for when you normally would pick train over flight travel. Just considering how long it takes getting to the airport and stand in line there as opposed to jumping on a train. However, as it is right now the price on the tickets will be a key indicator too, as the train ride still takes up to an hour more for the average traveller. However, once they bump up the train speed a bit more, I have no doubt that this line will get smack full to the brink of the when the government is considering a second line. Just like how Japan is making a new line between Tokyo and Osaka. Perhaps China will start on a maglev line, or something even more futuristic, like an evacuated tube? That would blow my mind away!

In fact, these evacuated tubes needs to see the light of day soon! They will make PDL trainlines obsolete, but who cares?

Evacuated tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92dK_yxaKvk

Or a Gravity train:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EapvQ3ALYJY
Back in 2010 I flew from Shanghai(Hongqiao) to Beijing and from hotel to hotel with 1 hr flight delay I would say the whole trip was 6 hrs at least.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 04:53 AM   #5532
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D644 near Changsha Station



by 紫金岁月
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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:21 AM   #5533
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Now, that's a nice picture. Zigzag train
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #5534
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Nanchang-Ganzhou HSR to start construction at the end of 2013

Location: Jiangxi Province
Length: 421km
Design speed: 350km/h
Cost: 44 bln yuan
It's on early stage survey now.

link
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:13 AM   #5535
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Nanchang-Ganzhou HSR to start construction at the end of 2013

Location: Jiangxi Province
Length: 421km
Design speed: 350km/h
Cost: 44 bln yuan
It's on early stage survey now.
This is, unusually, longer than the parallel low speed railway, which is 412 km.

Also, on a low speed railway, Ganzhou is just 396 km from Huizhou.

Would it make sense to also build a 350 km/h high speed railway Huizhou-Ganzhou?
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Old March 6th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #5536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge321 View Post
I was in Xi'an/Baoji for Chinese New Year. Travelling from Xi'an to Baoji by road I saw that the viaducts for the Xi'an-Baoji HSR line was finished, but electrification installations remain incomplete. Hopefully they can have the line up and running in the middle of the year.
It won't happen in the middle of the year, in fact they haven't even started track laying, which is scheduled for April, so my guess is that infrastructure construction will be done by late summer like August-Sept, testing will take a few months and opening in late Dec.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 06:16 PM   #5537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Nanchang-Ganzhou HSR to start construction at the end of 2013

Location: Jiangxi Province
Length: 421km
Design speed: 350km/h
Cost: 44 bln yuan
It's on early stage survey now.

link
Is this line part of a longer Guangzhou or Shenzhen to Shanghai(via Hangzhou) high speed railway?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
This is, unusually, longer than the parallel low speed railway, which is 412 km.

Also, on a low speed railway, Ganzhou is just 396 km from Huizhou.

Would it make sense to also build a 350 km/h high speed railway Huizhou-Ganzhou?
That would make sense and have the line extend down to Shenzhen.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:52 AM   #5538
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
It won't happen in the middle of the year, in fact they haven't even started track laying, which is scheduled for April, so my guess is that infrastructure construction will be done by late summer like August-Sept, testing will take a few months and opening in late Dec.
Ah I see, thanks. That's quite a bit behind earlier schedules as the line was said to begin trial runs by the end of 2012.

Btw, it seems from this article that the design speed of the Baoji-Lanzhou section of the Xuzhou-Lanzhou HSR line will be 250kph (instead of 350kph). What's the latest plan for the Baoji-Lanzhou section? Any idea?

http://www.ha.xinhuanet.com/hnxw/201..._113471102.htm
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:48 AM   #5539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
This is, unusually, longer than the parallel low speed railway, which is 412 km.

Also, on a low speed railway, Ganzhou is just 396 km from Huizhou.

Would it make sense to also build a 350 km/h high speed railway Huizhou-Ganzhou?
This is part of the Nanchang-Ji'an-Ganzhou-Shenzhen HSR line. Per initial plan Nanchang-Ganzhou HSR is 398km, the first survey adjusted it to 421km, it doesn't follow the existing rail and passes Wan'an on its route. However this is only the first survey so the route/length is subject to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Is this line part of a longer Guangzhou or Shenzhen to Shanghai(via Hangzhou) high speed railway?
This line is designed to ease the traffic of Beijing-Kowloon(Hong Kong) railway so it should be part of Beijing-Kowloon rail.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 09:50 AM   #5540
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The 150-kilometer Hangzhou-Ningbo high-speed railway linking Hangzhou and Ningbo, two hub cities in Zhejiang, commenced its integration test here on Friday. Once put into operation on July 2013 as expected, the high-speed railway that designed at a top speed of 350km/h, would reduce the travel time to 36 minitues, a quarter time of the current two-hour journey. (Xinhua/Tan Jin)
As of March, the fastest train Hangzhou-Ningbo actually takes 1:55 for 176 km. This is D377.

The other existing fastest times:
Hangzhou-Wenzhou - 3:47 for 446 km (D5587)
Hangzhou-Fuzhou - 5:58 for 740 km (D3231)
Hangzhou-Xiamen - 7:28 for 966 km (D3231)
Hangzhou South-Longyan - 8:34 for 1095 km (D3135)

Shanghai-Ningbo - 2:52 for 333 km (2 trains)
Shanghai-Wenzhou - 4:30 for 603 km (D5455)
Shanghai-Fuzhou - 6:59 for 897 km (D3205)
Shanghai-Xiamen - 8:44 for 1154 km (D3201)
Shanghai-Longyan - 10:17 for 1279 km (D3135)

Nanjing-Ningbo - 4:35 for 628 km (D365)
Nanjing-Wenzhou - 6:19 for 898 km (D365)
Nanjing-Fuzhou - 8:32 for 1200 km (D365)
Nanjing-Xiamen - 11:39 for 1424 km (D3135)
Nanjing-Longyan - 12:49 for 1580 km (D3135)

Beijing-Ningbo - 11:13 for 1651 km (D365)
Beijing-Wenzhou - 12:57 for 1921 km (D365)
Beijing-Fuzhou - 15:10 for 2223 km (D365)
Beijing-Xiamen - no D trains
Beijing-Longyan - no D trains

What shall these trip times be in July, when Hangzhou-Ningbo high speed railway shall have opened?
Is Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed railway on schedule to open before Hangzhou-Ningbo high speed railway?

Last edited by chornedsnorkack; March 7th, 2013 at 09:59 AM.
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