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Old March 24th, 2013, 11:12 AM   #5581
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Is not a coastal line from Qingdao to Shanghai in the long term MOR plan?
Qingdao-Rizhao-Lianyungang and Shanghai-Nantong are under construction, but they are both 200 km/h.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #5582
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Found this article about Harbin-Dalian high speed line: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...l-line-delayed

Looks like weather is not the only factor to be blamed for suboptimal performance of this route compared to other lines.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #5583
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But Wang Mengshu, deputy chief engineer at the China Railway Tunnel Group who was familiar with the railway's construction, said yesterday that the line had suffered from poor management that led to some serious quality concerns.

The line was not suitable to run at its designed speed until those problems were resolved, he said.

"The construction management was desperate to cut costs," Wang said. "They cancelled the construction of many bridges and tunnels, laying the rails directly on ground that was vulnerable to ice."

The expansion of ice in soil can stretch and twist rail lines beyond their safety limit, he said. About a fourth of the line was laid on such soils.
Ouch. Frost heaving is serious business, though if they have done it with a proper foundation it should be safe. Low speed trains can manage.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #5584
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And pinning it on Liu Zhijun would solve everything, wouldn't it?

:\

This is sad. When I read about the Dalian-Harbin HSR opening, I thought they would have taken such measures. Guess I was wrong.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #5585
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Part of the reason why Chinese could build their HS lines cheaper than elsewhere is an inexpensive workforce and economies of scale, but sadly the other part is lax attitude to safety and building standards. That will need to be tackled otherwise another accident is just waiting to happen...
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Old March 24th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #5586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post

This is sad. When I read about the Dalian-Harbin HSR opening, I thought they would have taken such measures. Guess I was wrong.
It's not strange that you were thinking that, since they SAID at the opening, with great fanfare, that this was the first high speed rail line for 'arctic temperatures' and such claims.

Seems it was just empty boasting, once more.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #5587
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""They cancelled the construction of many bridges and tunnels, laying the rails directly on ground that was vulnerable to ice.""

Above line simply not believable and sounds like only bashing. Most of the line (~70%) is already on bridges or consists of tunnels.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #5588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
""They cancelled the construction of many bridges and tunnels, laying the rails directly on ground that was vulnerable to ice.""

Above line simply not believable and sounds like only bashing. Most of the line (~70%) is already on bridges or consists of tunnels.
"About a fourth of the line was laid on such soils."


So 25%, and you say about 70% is on bridges or tunnels... those numbers seem to match up.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 10:15 PM   #5589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
""They cancelled the construction of many bridges and tunnels, laying the rails directly on ground that was vulnerable to ice.""

Above line simply not believable and sounds like only bashing. Most of the line (~70%) is already on bridges or consists of tunnels.
Is any critical opinion on China 'bashing' now?
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Old March 25th, 2013, 02:16 AM   #5590
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The source cited is Chinese as well, so...
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Old March 25th, 2013, 06:31 AM   #5591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Is any critical opinion on China 'bashing' now?

I gave the reasoning why I found the "report" as bashing. Its main reasoning is hilarious. Almost the whole route is elevated anyway... If it was about materials used, I might have believed it.
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Old March 25th, 2013, 06:34 AM   #5592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
"About a fourth of the line was laid on such soils."


So 25%, and you say about 70% is on bridges or tunnels... those numbers seem to match up.
Well, they don't. Permafrost is not a feature of 100% of that route.
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Old March 25th, 2013, 06:35 AM   #5593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
The source cited is Chinese as well, so...
yeah, so.. ?

Do you believe everything in Chinese about China, now?
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Old March 25th, 2013, 07:30 AM   #5594
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Well, they don't. Permafrost is not a feature of 100% of that route.
Permafrost is not a problem. Water freezing is a problem. That can happen along the entire route.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 05:19 AM   #5595
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Vice premier stresses safe operation of railways

ZHENGZHOU, March 25 (Xinhua) -- China's railway sector that is experiencing a massive reshuffle should always prioritize safe operation, Vice Premier Ma Kai said Monday.

Ma made the remarks during an inspection in Zhengzhou, capital of central China's Henan Province. He said safety is an important measurement of railway reform.

The government earlier this month announced to divided the Ministry of Railways into two parts to carry out administrative and commercial functions, respectively.

The former ministry was both a policymaker and service provider and has long been criticized for ticketing problems, bureaucracy and deadly rail accidents.

Ma said the reforms are conducive to resolving the structural problems that have hampered the development of railways, as well as improving their efficiency and service quality.

Ma toured the Beijing-Zhengzhou section of the Beijing-Guangzhou high-speed railway and inspected railway construction sites in the province.

He urged railway departments at all levels to eliminate major traffic accidents and ensure the safety of the country's high-speed railways.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #5596
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Moving forward I hope the Chinese can have a safety record as good as the Japanese.
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Old March 27th, 2013, 08:22 PM   #5597
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Daily ridership of Beijing–Shanghai HSR at Beijing South Station

Beijing–Shanghai HSR Line Beijing South Station Departures

Monthly average:
• June 2012: ~ 40,000 (data missing on 2 of 30 days)
• July 2012: 50,658
• August 2012: 50,286
• September 2012: 43,672
• October 2012: 44,240
• November 2012: 37,915
• December 2012: 37,317
• January 2013: 37,634
• February 2013: 39,636
• March 2013: 41,627 (as of March 26)

June 2012:


July 2012:


August 2012:


September 2012:


October 2012:


November 2012:


December 2012:


January 2013:


February 2013:


March 2013:
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Old March 27th, 2013, 10:53 PM   #5598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Found this article about Harbin-Dalian high speed line: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...l-line-delayed

Looks like weather is not the only factor to be blamed for suboptimal performance of this route compared to other lines.
A tunnel builder complaining about the lack of tunnels - that's creative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Permafrost is not a problem. Water freezing is a problem. That can happen along the entire route.
Actually, thawing is the problem.
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Old March 28th, 2013, 04:22 AM   #5599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Found this article about Harbin-Dalian high speed line: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...l-line-delayed

Looks like weather is not the only factor to be blamed for suboptimal performance of this route compared to other lines.
-------------------------
2 days later, this piece of news was released: http://www.ln.xinhuanet.com/newscent..._115155097.htm

speed increase schedule is:
1. beginning of April: test train running at 300 km/h;
2. mid April: empty trains running at 300 km/h;
3. 21st April:all trains in service run at 300 km/h.
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Old March 28th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #5600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dao123 View Post
-------------------------
2 days later, this piece of news was released: http://www.ln.xinhuanet.com/newscent..._115155097.htm

speed increase schedule is:
1. beginning of April: test train running at 300 km/h;
2. mid April: empty trains running at 300 km/h;
3. 21st April:all trains in service run at 300 km/h.
Thanks for the link.
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