daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 29th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #5601
Norge78
Registered User
 
Norge78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 471
Likes (Received): 388

Lanzhou-Urumqi high-speed railway to open in 2014

The country's first high-speed railway that is partly built on a plateau is expected to open by the end of next year, People's Daily reported on Thursday.

The 1,776-km Lanzhou-Urumqi high-speed railway links the two capitals of Gansu province and Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region.

It runs through the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, which has complex geological situations that make the high-speed railway tunnel construction a difficult and risky project.

The report said the project's most difficult part is a 16-km section consisting of two railway tunnels and a bridge that run at a height of more than 3,600 meters.

Construction on the two tunnels started three years ago. Railway constructors said they aim to complete the two tunnels by the end of this year and have rail tracks laid through the two tunnels by April 30, 2014.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_16354846.htm


What speed (km/h) for this HSR new line?
Norge78 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 29th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #5602
VECTROTALENZIS
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
 
VECTROTALENZIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,236
Likes (Received): 4435

300-350
__________________

China Hand, FM 2258 liked this post
VECTROTALENZIS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 12:39 PM   #5603
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

How has the progress of Xian-Baoji-Lanzhou high speed railway been?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #5604
Norge78
Registered User
 
Norge78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 471
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
300-350

Frankly speaking it's hard to understand why this long HSR line, in the empty desert, should have a speed of 350 km/h when another HSR line, than can be used by a bigger population, linking Chengdu - Chongqing and Wuhan, has got a speed of just 200-250 km/h.

Last edited by Norge78; March 29th, 2013 at 05:13 PM.
Norge78 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #5605
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,211
Likes (Received): 1779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norge78 View Post
Frankly speaking it's hard to understand why this HSR line in the desert should have a speed of 350 km/h when another HSR line, in a very populous area, linking Chengdu - Chongqing and Wuhan, is just 200-250 km/h.
It's probably because it's easier to build straight across a desert than through a built-up area.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!

China Hand liked this post
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #5606
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
It's probably because it's easier to build straight across a desert than through a built-up area.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #5607
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norge78 View Post
The country's first high-speed railway that is partly built on a plateau is expected to open by the end of next year, People's Daily reported on Thursday.

The 1,776-km Lanzhou-Urumqi high-speed railway links the two capitals of Gansu province and Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region.

It runs through the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, which has complex geological situations that make the high-speed railway tunnel construction a difficult and risky project.

The report said the project's most difficult part is a 16-km section consisting of two railway tunnels and a bridge that run at a height of more than 3,600 meters.

Construction on the two tunnels started three years ago. Railway constructors said they aim to complete the two tunnels by the end of this year and have rail tracks laid through the two tunnels by April 30, 2014.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_16354846.htm

What speed (km/h) for this HSR new line?
Based upon the Xi'an to Guangzhou line average speeds of 232 to 276 kph, trip times from Lanzhou to Ulumuqi will be 6h26m to 7h38m. When the Xi'an - Lanzhou line comes up in a few years travelers will be able to go from Shanghai to Urumqi in one (long) day. 1776 + 1536 = 3312 kms. 12 to 14 hours.

Flying will be cheaper and faster, but the view out the window will not be better...
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #5608
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norge78 View Post
Frankly speaking it's hard to understand why this long HSR line, in the empty desert, should have a speed of 350 km/h when another HSR line, than can be used by a bigger population, linking Chengdu - Chongqing and Wuhan, has got a speed of just 200-250 km/h.
Frankly speaking I don't think there is any economic justification for at all. This line is longer than Beijing-Shanghai for a fraction of the population, sparsely populated between the end stations. The people who can afford to take the HSR can afford to take a plane, and this route is not about to be congested any century soon.

Though in theory this could shave off a couple hours on the six-day Beijing-Moscow trip as an alternative to the Trans-Mongolian railway, but I am not sure if there is any useful connecting train from Ürümqi to the Russian main line.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #5609
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Frankly speaking I don't think there is any economic justification for at all. This line is longer than Beijing-Shanghai for a fraction of the population, sparsely populated between the end stations. The people who can afford to take the HSR can afford to take a plane, and this route is not about to be congested any century soon.

Though in theory this could shave off a couple hours on the six-day Beijing-Moscow trip as an alternative to the Trans-Mongolian railway, but I am not sure if there is any useful connecting train from Ürümqi to the Russian main line.
There's tourism. Xi'an is one of the most popular destinations in Asia and a link to Urumqi and all of the historical sites along the route would be just the thing to appeal to the adventurous. Making that trip one day of seeing the unique Chinese countryside would be a great item on a tour.

I would definitely take it. The K train to Lanzhou from Xi'an is a numbing 7+ hours over night. Training it to Wulumuqi is 34+ hours. Ugh. But to hop it at 700am and arrive in Wulumuqi at 400pm? Sure, I would do that happily.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 09:35 PM   #5610
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Frankly speaking I don't think there is any economic justification for at all. This line is longer than Beijing-Shanghai
Shorter than Beijing-Guangzhou (2105), Shijiazhuang-Guangzhou (1825) Xian-Guangzhou (1899) or Taiyuan-Guangzhou (2014)
Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
for a fraction of the population, sparsely populated between the end stations. The people who can afford to take the HSR can afford to take a plane, and this route is not about to be congested any century soon.
How popular have Xian-Guangzhou and Xian-Shenzhen high speed trains been?
Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Though in theory this could shave off a couple hours on the six-day Beijing-Moscow trip as an alternative to the Trans-Mongolian railway, but I am not sure if there is any useful connecting train from Ürümqi to the Russian main line.
No such trains.
There are Alashankou and Khorgos crossings, and there are trains Urumqi-Astana and Urumqi-Almaty via Alashankou.

No direct trains Beijing-Alashankou exist. For the matter, neither do any direct trains Beijing-Kashgar or Beijing-Yining.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #5611
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

I'm glad the line to Urumqi will be designed for 350km/h. No need to run it slower. I would love to take that train ride. It would be an attraction in itself.

Does anyone know where it will have other stations along the way between Lanzhou and Urumqi? I imagine most trains would be non stop.

Not that it will happen, my fantasy, it would be fun to see the CRH500 on this route.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #5612
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Does anyone know where it will have other stations along the way between Lanzhou and Urumqi? I imagine most trains would be non stop.
I imagine no trains would be nonstop - because the express trains would stop at Xining (but they, I expect, would be nonstop Xining to Urumqi).

There shall be 31 stations on Lanzhou-Urumqi high speed railway:
Lanzhou West
Minhe
Ledu
Pingan
Xining
Datong West
Menyuan
Junmachang
Minle
Zhangye South
Linze South
Gaotai South
Qingshui North
Jiuquan South
Jiayuguan South
Qingquan South
Yumenzhen
Liugou South
Shibandun South
Liuyuan South
Hongliuhe South
Yandun East
Hami
Liushuquan South
Hongchen South
Tuha
Shanshan North
Turpan North
Daheyan
Yanhu West
Ürümqi
Ürümqi Ergong
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 03:32 AM   #5613
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Frankly speaking I don't think there is any economic justification for at all. This line is longer than Beijing-Shanghai for a fraction of the population, sparsely populated between the end stations. The people who can afford to take the HSR can afford to take a plane, and this route is not about to be congested any century soon.

Though in theory this could shave off a couple hours on the six-day Beijing-Moscow trip as an alternative to the Trans-Mongolian railway, but I am not sure if there is any useful connecting train from Ürümqi to the Russian main line.
I recall an article saying that the existing 120km/h Lanzhou-Urumqi line is already running over capacity, so they have to build a new line anyway to allow for more freight and passenger trains.

And given that any new line is going to be running mostly through flat desert in a very straight line, there's not too much difference between 200km/h and 350km/h passenger trains. So passenger traffic mainly transfers to the new HSR, which the frees up lots of freight capacity on the slower old line.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #5614
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Those stops mean it is going to be a huge people mover PDL to handle local travel for people to the many small cities on the way. Freight from the border goes on the old lines and people take the ZHGT. 31 stops for 1776 kms (57km/stop) means not a lot of high speed cruising, but it will still get there quickly enough...
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 10:13 AM   #5615
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Not that it will happen, my fantasy, it would be fun to see the CRH500 on this route.
You just might. It is used to test long stretches of 350+ railway bed.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #5616
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Those stops mean it is going to be a huge people mover PDL to handle local travel for people to the many small cities on the way. Freight from the border goes on the old lines and people take the ZHGT.
Between Lanzhou and Zhangye, the HSL takes a different route, so the existing cities between Lanzhou and Zhangye must keep passenger service on old line.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #5617
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No such trains.
There are Alashankou and Khorgos crossings, and there are trains Urumqi-Astana and Urumqi-Almaty via Alashankou.

No direct trains Beijing-Alashankou exist. For the matter, neither do any direct trains Beijing-Kashgar or Beijing-Yining.
In a way that is too bad. Back in the days of unbridled optimism, they talked about direct HSR from Beijing to Prague or London. Ürümqi is 1/3 of the way to Moscow. In theory it should cut those 6 days into 4 1/2, but in practice there is no benefit for trans-continental travel. Not yet anyway.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #5618
stoneybee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 111
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Frankly speaking I don't think there is any economic justification for at all. This line is longer than Beijing-Shanghai for a fraction of the population, sparsely populated between the end stations. The people who can afford to take the HSR can afford to take a plane, and this route is not about to be congested any century soon.

Though in theory this could shave off a couple hours on the six-day Beijing-Moscow trip as an alternative to the Trans-Mongolian railway, but I am not sure if there is any useful connecting train from Ürümqi to the Russian main line.
No, the significance of this rail link is the same as the trans-american railway of the USA that was built 100 years ago. There will not be an US west coast economy of today without that railway, and China is doing the same with today's railroad technology. You will see a lot of industry mitgration from coastal provinces to the western region in the next 30 years once the transportation links becomes more mature in this part of China. This is a long term strategic play and Xinjiang is no Tibet because it is actually a very good place to live and with huge amount of natural resources.
__________________

phoenixboi08 liked this post
stoneybee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #5619
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Those stops mean it is going to be a huge people mover PDL to handle local travel for people to the many small cities on the way. Freight from the border goes on the old lines and people take the ZHGT. 31 stops for 1776 kms (57km/stop) means not a lot of high speed cruising, but it will still get there quickly enough...
I'm pretty certain that there will be a mix of non-stop and stopping trains on the line, because there will be a lot of spare capacity at the beginning so they can easily mix those trains.

An established example where express and local HSR services operate is the Tokaido Shinkansen, where there are 17 stops over 515km.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2013, 05:33 PM   #5620
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneybee View Post
No, the significance of this rail link is the same as the trans-american railway of the USA that was built 100 years ago. There will not be an US west coast economy of today without that railway, and China is doing the same with today's railroad technology. You will see a lot of industry mitgration from coastal provinces to the western region in the next 30 years once the transportation links becomes more mature in this part of China. This is a long term strategic play and Xinjiang is no Tibet because it is actually a very good place to live and with huge amount of natural resources.
I'm afraid I don't agree with that analysis.

Before the trans-continental railroad to California, the travel options were an overland horse or a boat from a port in the East. So you can see how transformational the railroad was.

The equivalent in Xinjiang was when the original Lanzhou to Xinjiang railroad was completed in 1966. But now this railway is overloaded, so they need another set of tracks.

As for industry, the HSR still won't make Xinjiang a competitive location for industry because rail freight to a port over 3000km away is way too expensive.

So I think HSR in Xinjiang will just support a continuation of growth, and create a string of more connected and prosperous cities along the railway line.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium