daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 7th, 2013, 09:05 PM   #5681
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Somehow I don't expect a direct service Hong Kong - Harbin or Hainan - Harbin. But a more convenient way to transfer seems to be missing in action for a while. I expect somebody to take such a grand trip to prefer to transfer in Tianjin rather than Beijing.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 7th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #5682
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Another conspiciously slow link, which is wrong on both maps, is Ningbo-Hangzhou.

The fastest D trains now take 1:29 for 149 km.

Yet the slow speed line already has 31 D trains daily.

And lots of trains travel through Shanghai!

Out of the said 31, 23 reach Shanghai Hongqiao station. Of those 23, 8 pass through Shanghai to Nanjing.

And out of these 8, 2 terminate in Nanjing. The other 6 go beyond: 1 to Beijing (D366, trip time Ningbo-Beijing 11:48 for 1651 km), 1 to Xuzhou, 2 to Hefei, 1 via Hefei to Luan and 1 via Hefei and Luan to Wuhan.

As of now, Ningbo East-Nanjing South is 644 km via Shanghai, at least 149 km of which is slow speed railway. The fastest train on the route (D366) takes 4:52 - even slower than Shenyang-Beijing! Nevertheless, as mentioned, there are 8 direct D trains daily.

In July 2013, 401 km direct, 300 km/h high speed railway Nanjing-Hangzhou-Ningbo is due to open.

Therefore in this July, what shall be the fastest scheduled train time Ningbo-Nanjing?

What shall be, in this July, the fastest direct train time Ningbo-Beijing?

How many direct trains Ningbo-Beijing daily shall run this July?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #5683
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Impossible.

There is no high speed rail between Qinhuangdao and Beijing, nor Tianjin. And high speed rail does not get across Beijing itself.
I think Beijing-Guangzhou might qualify.

I recall in January that Beijing was like -15C whilst Guangzhou was about 20C
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #5684
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

And even if one could there are several places on this planet where a ski resort and temperatures around 0 C and sunbathing on a subtropical beach with temperatures above +20 C are within 1-2 h drive.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2013, 11:26 PM   #5685
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
I think Beijing-Guangzhou might qualify.

I recall in January that Beijing was like -15C whilst Guangzhou was about 20C
If Beijing is THE "Ice City" then yes. Also, a direct train (G72) does exist Shenzhen-Beijing, not just Guangzhou-Beijing. Shenzhen is appreciably warmer in winter compared to Guangzhou.

The schedules are odd, though.

Guangzhou-Beijing is 2105 km.
Guangzhou-Xian is 1899 km.

Express train times are Guangzhou-Beijing 7:59 (G80), and Guangzhou-Xian 7:40 (G96).

Even though Beijing is a more populous city than Xian, and only slightly further, there are only 3 G trains daily Guangzhou-Beijing, but 6 G trains daily Guangzhou-Xian.

The schedule looks like Changan and not Beijing is the capital of China.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2013, 05:55 AM   #5686
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 382

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
It takes >>4 hrs. More specifically, the fastest train on Beijing-Shenyang direction is D11, 4:44 for 703 km.
Compare
Beijing-Shanghai, G1, 4:48 for 1318 km
Beijing-Wuhan, G79, 4:17 for 1136 km
Beijing-Xian, G87, 4:40 for 1120 km

Yes. But even comparing it with 200 km/h lines
Dalian North-Changchun, D8001, 4:10 for 693 km

No, what I am noting is the bottlenecks, missing links and missing direct services.
Oh - and there are no D or G trains direct Shenyang-Shanghai or Shenyang-Guangzhou.
Well, it will be up to your "standards" in 2 years :p so no worries.
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2013, 09:05 AM   #5687
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Well, it will be up to your "standards" in 2 years :p so no worries.
In which month of 2015?

I see a number of existing and new bottlenecks in 2015.

How is the state of progress of Tianjin-Qinhuangdao high speed railway? In which year shall it open?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #5688
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The schedule looks like Changan and not Beijing is the capital of China.
Well, know once upon a time...
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #5689
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Oh - and there are no D or G trains direct Shenyang-Shanghai or Shenyang-Guangzhou.
One can take fast rail from Shenyang to Beijing in under 5 hours and transfer to Shanghai or Guangzhou. 703 + 2298 kms. 4h45m+ 8h00m. I do not see any benefit to running a train from Shenyang when it would take all day and have to leave before 900am. Even if there were the traffic and a G train doing it in 3 hours it would make more sense to treat Beijing as a hub and transfer passengers there rather than run a train from Shenyang all the way to Hong Kong.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #5690
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
One can take fast rail from Shenyang to Beijing in under 5 hours and transfer to Shanghai or Guangzhou. 703 + 2298 kms. 4h45m+ 8h00m.
All fast trains from Shenyang to Beijing, and all slow trains, terminate at Beijing. Beijing is NOT served by any fast trains to either Shanghai or Guangzhou - all fast trains to Shanghai originate at Beijing South, and all fast trains to Guangzhou originate at Beijing West. There are 2 slow trains daily Beijing-Shanghai, and 1 slow train to Guangzhou - T13 which originates in Shenyang anyway.
Shenyang North-Tianjin West is 699 km, and is served by 2 trains daily - the faster, D158, takes 5:21. Both depart before 8:40.
Tianjin West-Shanghai Hongqiao, 1213 km, is served by 4 G trains daily - the fastest, G53, takes 5:01. You could indeed connect at Tianjin West from D164 to G213, and cover the 1912 km in 5:34+0:12+5:02=10:48.

But this grand total of 1912 km is shorter than Shenzhen-Xian, Guangzhou-Taiyuan or Beijing-Wenzhou. You could therefore operate direct trains on the route.
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I do not see any benefit to running a train from Shenyang when it would take all day and have to leave before 900am. Even if there were the traffic and a G train doing it in 3 hours
Then you could have 3 hours Shenyang-Tianjin, and 4:30 Tianjin-Shanghai. And that 7:30 would be fairly comparable to the direct trains Beijing-Guangzhou or Xian-Guangzhou. You could schedule such a train to leave Shenyang at 15:00 and arrive still at 22:30.
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
it would make more sense to treat Beijing as a hub and transfer passengers there rather than run a train from Shenyang all the way to Hong Kong.
It would also make more sense to treat Shanghai as a hub. Yet there are literally tens of high speed trains running through Hangzhou-Shanghai-Nanjing. I do not see any benefit to running a train between such obscure termini as Cangnan and Luan; yet it does (D5482).
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2013, 08:56 PM   #5691
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Geographically speaking Tianjin is more suited for north/south traffic than Beijing, and is a port to boot. It may not be the capital, but should work well as a station town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The schedule looks like Changan and not Beijing is the capital of China.
While Wuhan was capital somewhat shorter than Chang'an, it has been a major beneficiary of the HSR development.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2013, 09:16 AM   #5692
luhai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 647
Likes (Received): 423

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
While Wuhan was capital somewhat shorter than Chang'an, it has been a major beneficiary of the HSR development.
Let's not forgot about Changsha, it will the cross point of Beijing-Guangzhou and Shanghai-Kunming. Effectively make it very accessible from Guangzhou (3 hr), Beijing (6hr) and Shanghai (4-5hr?) via HSR...
luhai no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2013, 10:22 AM   #5693
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
Let's not forgot about Changsha, it will the cross point of Beijing-Guangzhou and Shanghai-Kunming.
But it is not a cross point of anything for now. Whereas Zhengzhou is.

Changsha is 621 km from Guangzhou South. Fastest trains are 2:18.
Zhengzhou is 663 km from Beijing West. Fastest trains are 2:30.

I observe that there are 71 daily G trains Changsha-Guangzhou South, but mere 33 daily G trains Zhengzhou-Beijing West.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #5694
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
All fast trains from Shenyang to Beijing, and all slow trains, terminate at Beijing. Beijing is NOT served by any fast trains to either Shanghai or Guangzhou - all fast trains to Shanghai originate at Beijing South, and all fast trains to Guangzhou originate at Beijing West.
So your standard demands that all lines have 10 metre walk to the next train connections.

I see.

Subway not good enough, eh?
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #5695
luhai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 647
Likes (Received): 423

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
All fast trains from Shenyang to Beijing, and all slow trains, terminate at Beijing. Beijing is NOT served by any fast trains to either Shanghai or Guangzhou - all fast trains to Shanghai originate at Beijing South, and all fast trains to Guangzhou originate at Beijing West.
You do know what Beijing South is closer to Beijing's center than Beijing west right? In fact, it's right outside of the Temple of Heaven and built on the site of the original Beijing Yongdingmen station from 1897. It's just 7 km from Beijing Station and 8 km from Beijing west and just 5km from Tian'anmen Square.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing...ailway_Station
luhai no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2013, 03:31 AM   #5696
gdolniak
Mememe...
 
gdolniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 190
Likes (Received): 29

First photos of construction site of nation’s first underground train station in Shenzhen published

First photos of construction site of nation’s first underground train station in Shenzhen published
Posted: 04/10/2013 7:00 am

Photographs have been published by The Daily Sunshine of the construction site of Shenzhen Futian Train Station, which will be the country’s first underground transport hub. It will be part of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong high speed railway, which will be completed in 2015.


The complex will also include a 100-meter long bus station

The station will be located at the intersection between Shennan Avenue and Yitian Road, and will be 270,000 square meters (that is 192 football fields) in size. Passengers will be able to use the station’s transfer hall to walk to the Futian and Civic Centre subway stations, which were completed ahead of the Universiade in 2011.


The station’s transfer hall

Approximately 1,500 people are working on the construction. Underground construction is especially difficult due to problems such as lighting and ventilation for workers.


The water storage area which will provide air conditioning for the station

The city is particularly proud of its use of new and green technology such as LED lighting in the project.

http://www.thenanfang.com/blog/journ...truction-site/
__________________

CP11, FM 2258 liked this post
gdolniak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2013, 05:56 AM   #5697
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
So your standard demands that all lines have 10 metre walk to the next train connections.

I see.

Subway not good enough, eh?
If there is a subway connection, it's no longer high speed. Whatever was won on speed and convenience is lost on the subway. There are no longer any benefit over taking planes.

Under ideal conditions that means an additional walk of 10-15 minutes, possibly with luggage, to the station and from the station, plus a 15-30 minute journey. Ideal conditions are unlikely. Even if a connecting city like Beijing got their traffic problems fixed, the sheer amount of people a HSR train shift means queues, it takes several metro trains to handle a HSR train. The connecting city will most likely be an unfamiliar city, you have to figure out where and how to get a ticket, what to take, where to go.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #5698
Xtartrex
Your nemesis
 
Xtartrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Free citizen of the world
Posts: 1,606

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
If there is a subway connection, it's no longer high speed. Whatever was won on speed and convenience is lost on the subway. There are no longer any benefit over taking planes.

Under ideal conditions that means an additional walk of 10-15 minutes, possibly with luggage, to the station and from the station, plus a 15-30 minute journey. Ideal conditions are unlikely. Even if a connecting city like Beijing got their traffic problems fixed, the sheer amount of people a HSR train shift means queues, it takes several metro trains to handle a HSR train. The connecting city will most likely be an unfamiliar city, you have to figure out where and how to get a ticket, what to take, where to go.
Plus you have to consider that in China people tend to skip the lines and jump in front of you, that could add more time to your already epic trip.
Xtartrex no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #5699
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
If there is a subway connection, it's no longer high speed. Whatever was won on speed and convenience is lost on the subway. There are no longer any benefit over taking planes.

Under ideal conditions that means an additional walk of 10-15 minutes, possibly with luggage, to the station and from the station, plus a 15-30 minute journey. Ideal conditions are unlikely. Even if a connecting city like Beijing got their traffic problems fixed, the sheer amount of people a HSR train shift means queues, it takes several metro trains to handle a HSR train. The connecting city will most likely be an unfamiliar city, you have to figure out where and how to get a ticket, what to take, where to go.
Jax and Chorned I view your stances as being unduly harsh, demanding and critical to the point of complaining and whinging. No direct HSR serves all Cities of the Czech Republic, does it? Isn't the Pendolino limited to 160kph? Yet you appear to demand of the Chinese that which you do not do yourself. Hm. I am sure you will make excuses, but they are just that - excuses.

I live in China. I have taken just such a trip where I had to retrace 80km back to Shanghai and then go to Beijing South, get on the subway, and go to Beijing West to go to ShiJiaZhuang. Subway cars carry many more passengers than a CRH car, so your assumption is in error. All passengers in one CRH train can fit into 3 or 4 subway cars of an 8 car train.

"The connecting city will most likely be an unfamiliar city, you have to figure out where and how to get a ticket, what to take, where to go."

The Internet. Look into it. Most who take the CRH in China buy tickets online using 12306 or similar. They plan legs in advance, using online resources, just as anyone else would.

By your analogy taking the subway to the airport negates the benefit of taking the turbofan.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #5700
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
If there is a subway connection, it's no longer high speed. Whatever was won on speed and convenience is lost on the subway. There are no longer any benefit over taking planes.

Under ideal conditions that means an additional walk of 10-15 minutes, possibly with luggage, to the station and from the station, plus a 15-30 minute journey. Ideal conditions are unlikely. Even if a connecting city like Beijing got their traffic problems fixed, the sheer amount of people a HSR train shift means queues, it takes several metro trains to handle a HSR train. The connecting city will most likely be an unfamiliar city, you have to figure out where and how to get a ticket, what to take, where to go.
From what you're saying it's the same as flying. It takes me 30 minutes to get to the airport for a 30 min flight. Then another 30 min to get to my destination in the city for example AUS-IAH.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium