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Old April 13th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #5721
hkskyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
You should have been able to order it online, and just needing to bring your credit card to the trainstation where they should have automated kiosks ready for you to print out your ticket!

I see China is much at the forefront of high speed rail, but when it comes to this, they are several years behind the western world in ticketing systems. Such a shame though! That is alot of time wasted right there when they spend billions on fast trains in order to save some time!

Those kiosks are a very small investment, so it is very depressing to know that its still not there yet...

by the way, I find Richard Quest funny sometimes, and he is refreshingly open with his questions. But he can also be annoying and narcissistic.
There are automated machines. I believe locals with their national ID card can order online and pick up their tickets at these machines, or buy the tickets there on the spot without going through any lines.

Guangzhou ticket machine


Foreigners, including Hong Kong ID holders, would still need to do it the manual way.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #5722
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Foreigners, including Hong Kong ID holders, would still need to do it the manual way.
What's the reasoning behind this? Shouldn't anybody be allowed to buy a ticket through a TVM?- money for fare is money, regardless of national origin of the person paying. Also, having more TVM utilization reduces labor costs, though perhaps reducing costs is not a priority in this organization.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #5723
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Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
What's the reasoning behind this? Shouldn't anybody be allowed to buy a ticket through a TVM?- money for fare is money, regardless of national origin of the person paying. Also, having more TVM utilization reduces labor costs, though perhaps reducing costs is not a priority in this organization.
You're forgetting that PRC is still a communist country and would want to monitor where foreigners are going at all time.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 06:24 PM   #5724
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Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
What's the reasoning behind this? Shouldn't anybody be allowed to buy a ticket through a TVM?- money for fare is money, regardless of national origin of the person paying. Also, having more TVM utilization reduces labor costs, though perhaps reducing costs is not a priority in this organization.
All purchasers must show their ID card upon purchase. This was a new measure introduced a while back to prevent scalping. For these automated machines, passengers need to place their ID card on a scanner during purchase. I suspect the scanner cannot pick up non-Chinese ID cards.

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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
You're forgetting that PRC is still a communist country and would want to monitor where foreigners are going at all time.
This has nothing to do with the "communist party" and the supposed "red scare". All ticket purchasers must have a valid ID card and that identification will be on the ticket itself, just as all airline passengers around the world, including those in the West, need to show proper identification prior to boarding. Any airliner flying into the US will need to submit the passenger list beforehand so the US can monitor which foreigners are coming in.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #5725
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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
You're forgetting that PRC is still a communist country and would want to monitor where foreigners are going at all time.
Well, kioks machines cannot monitor people huh? Get real

Also China is as much communist as Japan. I find some European countries more "communist" than China
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Old April 13th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #5726
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I have used most to all of these payment schemes in Europe.

While I don't mind print-your-own-ticket like Ryanair, Wizz and Deutsche Bahn do, I hate that for at least the former two it is the only option, you have to find a printer or pay a huge fine. Finding a printer is not always such an easy task, and if you are not prepared you might have to find a printer with internet access, in other words an internet cafe. In some cities there are plenty, in others there are almost none. If you are at home it is easier (I had to buy a printer just because of print-your-own, but printers are practically free), but you should remember it.

SMS tickets are convenient, and there is nothing to remember (except checking that you got that message), but they are slow to check manually by the ticket inspector. In the vanilla version I don't think they would work in China because of the greater number of passengers. Combined with something like NFC it could work.

Credit cards work fine, both for kiosks, and at an airport train where you swipe your credit card when entering the platform and when exiting the train/platform. In the first case the ticket is there and prepaid, you just use the credit card to identify yourself to the kiosk. The second is really quick, a couple seconds on each end, but if you forget to swipe on the way out you will pay the maximum ticket price. The Chinese equivalent would be the ID card and Yikatong (or similar) respectively.

Some airport kiosks can handle newer passports for same use as credit card to pick up the ticket, but it is a lesser option because while credit cards are quick and almost flawless, passport recognition is slower and sometimes fail.

Entering a ticket code (from SMS or web) is the least favourite. the number is long and slow and it is easy to make a mistake, and if you do that once or twice you can feel the queue growing behind you.

So tickets registered to Chinese ID card numbers might be most convenient (though the ID card readers I have encountered have taken some seconds to process, they are less ideal than RFID/NFC type cards for big crowds). The advantage is that everyone got one, except us foreigners, and everyone would have to bring it on travel anyway. Since most foreigners have a credit card, ID+CC could solve identification for 99% of the travellers.

A "National travel card" would be even better, a hypothetical card that would identify you for prepaid ticket, carry some cash like a yikatong/octopus card, and could use that for travel in public transport in cities with RFID gates like Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #5727
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The ID system makes sense (remember there is a problem of scalping in China due to high demand of tickets, especially during the New Year travel period). Foreigners have to show the ID and get their name printed on the ticket just like anybody else with a Chinese ID. The difference is that automated ticket machines in train stations won't read foreign IDs or passports. And that is really strange and inexcusable. I don't understand why this is so because technically there shouldn't be a problem to read any ID/Passport which has biometric data chip.

Does anyone have reasonable explanation why foreign IDs cannot be used with ticket machines?
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Old April 13th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #5728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
The ID system makes sense (remember there is a problem of scalping in China due to high demand of tickets, especially during the New Year travel period). Foreigners have to show the ID and get their name printed on the ticket just like anybody else with a Chinese ID. The difference is that automated ticket machines in train stations won't read foreign IDs or passports. And that is really strange and inexcusable. I don't understand why this is so because technically there shouldn't be a problem to read any ID/Passport which has biometric data chip.

Does anyone have reasonable explanation why foreign IDs cannot be used with ticket machines?
It's not a problem for airlines, is it? Nothing truly new needs to be invented here. Buy your ticket online, pay with your credit/debit card (if needed the system could put a limit to the number of tickets one can buy with one card), print your ticket with your name and a bar code on it, show your ID upon boarding a train. I don't see how scalpers would get around it easily...
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Old April 14th, 2013, 04:16 AM   #5729
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
This has nothing to do with the "communist party" and the supposed "red scare". All ticket purchasers must have a valid ID card and that identification will be on the ticket itself, just as all airline passengers around the world, including those in the West, need to show proper identification prior to boarding. Any airliner flying into the US will need to submit the passenger list beforehand so the US can monitor which foreigners are coming in.
Not for domestic flights you don't.
I have traveled all around the world and I do not recall a single nation asking for my passport information when traveling domestically after I had passed immigration.
Sorry your argument doesn't fly.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 05:09 AM   #5730
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
It's not a problem for airlines, is it? Nothing truly new needs to be invented here. Buy your ticket online, pay with your credit/debit card (if needed the system could put a limit to the number of tickets one can buy with one card), print your ticket with your name and a bar code on it, show your ID upon boarding a train. I don't see how scalpers would get around it easily...
That's essentially what they have implemented for the trains. Instead of having the name appear on the ticket, the ID number is displayed, which cannot be changed. The scalpers go away.

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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Not for domestic flights you don't.
I have traveled all around the world and I do not recall a single nation asking for my passport information when traveling domestically after I had passed immigration.
Sorry your argument doesn't fly.
They will ask for your ID to check it matches the ticket at security and/or at boarding. Your credit card payment information can be surrendered to the government and they can track you down.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 05:27 AM   #5731
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
They will ask for your ID to check it matches the ticket at security and/or at boarding. Your credit card payment information can be surrendered to the government and they can track you down.
Which nation are you talking about?
The ticket owner is the ticket owner period. Democratic nations do not track foreigners without a reason and if you buy through cash there is no way a nation can track you.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 05:53 AM   #5732
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What is being discussed here? I cannot follow anymore
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Old April 14th, 2013, 06:51 AM   #5733
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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Which nation are you talking about?
The ticket owner is the ticket owner period. Democratic nations do not track foreigners without a reason and if you buy through cash there is no way a nation can track you.
On that side track, democratic and capitalistic countries do. Twenty-some years back what you said was true. As long as you had an airline ticket you were good to go, whether or not your name and the ticket name matched. You had to show your ID through security, but not at check-in. This was actually a thriving business as return tickets were almost half the price of an one-way ticket, in a some cases it would be cheaper to buy a return ticket and throw away the return. For instance India-Europe-India could be dramatically cheaper than Europe-India-Europe. And so on. So there was a good market in "matching tickets" to save on travel cost.

The war on terror put an end to all that. Now you have to match your name with the ticket both with the airline and with security. If you want to change the name of the ticket you have to pay a surcharge that in some cases may be higher than the price of the ticket. Everybody wins except the consumer.

I am not sure which country started registering rail tickets, it definitely wasn't China, possibly Spain. The reason seems to have been airline envy. Back in the days a ticket was valid for one person from point of origin to point of destination. Anyone could use a ticket using any train of that company/country at any time (depending on the train there could be a surcharge) with an unlimited number of stopovers on the way. Most of that is gone now, what's not gone is going. If I am not mistaken ID for train tickets is about to become the law in Europe.

It has been for a while on ships, including ferries. The reason this time is in case of accidents. When a ship has sunk if there were no passenger list it was hard to know who were the survivors and who are still missing.

Buses are the hangout, but not for long. The only truly ID-free long distance buses I have travelled with lately have been in China. With European buses you mostly give a name. Unlike air travel and sometimes train travel they don't actually check your name as long as you have a ticket, so bus travel is de facto anonymous.

Which driving a car or renting a car isn't. You have to give an ID. Riding a taxi is still ID-free everywhere though, but few travel intercity with a taxi. Or by bicycle or walking. Anonymous travel is becoming a thing of the past, all the while travelling has become more common and more necessary. This seems to become an increasing problem for groups like e.g. illegal immigrants.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 07:22 AM   #5734
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Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
On that side track, democratic and capitalistic countries do. Twenty-some years back what you said was true. As long as you had an airline ticket you were good to go, whether or not your name and the ticket name matched. You had to show your ID through security, but not at check-in. This was actually a thriving business as return tickets were almost half the price of an one-way ticket, in a some cases it would be cheaper to buy a return ticket and throw away the return. For instance India-Europe-India could be dramatically cheaper than Europe-India-Europe. And so on. So there was a good market in "matching tickets" to save on travel cost.

The war on terror put an end to all that. Now you have to match your name with the ticket both with the airline and with security. If you want to change the name of the ticket you have to pay a surcharge that in some cases may be higher than the price of the ticket. Everybody wins except the consumer.
I believe you are talking about international air travel, the question is about domestic travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
I am not sure which country started registering rail tickets, it definitely wasn't China, possibly Spain. The reason seems to have been airline envy. Back in the days a ticket was valid for one person from point of origin to point of destination. Anyone could use a ticket using any train of that company/country at any time (depending on the train there could be a surcharge) with an unlimited number of stopovers on the way. Most of that is gone now, what's not gone is going. If I am not mistaken ID for train tickets is about to become the law in Europe.

It has been for a while on ships, including ferries. The reason this time is in case of accidents. When a ship has sunk if there were no passenger list it was hard to know who were the survivors and who are still missing.

Buses are the hangout, but not for long. The only truly ID-free long distance buses I have travelled with lately have been in China. With European buses you mostly give a name. Unlike air travel and sometimes train travel they don't actually check your name as long as you have a ticket, so bus travel is de facto anonymous.

Which driving a car or renting a car isn't. You have to give an ID. Riding a taxi is still ID-free everywhere though, but few travel intercity with a taxi. Or by bicycle or walking. Anonymous travel is becoming a thing of the past, all the while travelling has become more common and more necessary. This seems to become an increasing problem for groups like e.g. illegal immigrants.
Again mostly about cross border situation which does not apply for pure domestic travel.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 08:03 AM   #5735
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No, long distance travel (regional, not municipal or intercity). Whether you cross a border or not is almost incidental, especially in Europe after Schengen. Low-speed domestic regional trains may be different, I haven't taken one for a very long while, and I am sure it is possible to travel anonymously, but it is getting harder every year.

The questions to ask are: Do they require you to register yourself when buying a ticket, do they check your ID against the name on the ticket, do they charge a significant fee to change the name on the ticket (to match your ID)? I don't think ground travel is quite there yet. On ferries they require your name, in case you drown, but not that the name matches the ticket.

I have had to show my ID in China no more often than in many European countries or in the US. I do prefer to present my credentials on the train or bus instead of at a gate before it, airport style. Sitting down relaxed beats getting squeezed in a crowd possibly carrying luggage, but I can see why the transport companies prefer the gate.

Who you are shouldn't be the transport company's concern, they are paid to get you from A to B, but they and the government both benefit from requiring that information.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #5736
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Domestic air travelers need to present their ID at check-in and / or security to validate they are indeed the person on the ticket.

Whether a name or a passport ID is on the ticket is irrelevant. Either way, the transport company will have a way to identify you, and if the government requires that information, it will be surrendered to them.

Especially for air travel, there is no such thing as an anonymous passenger.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #5737
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That is true for airlines, but most domestic train travel in Europe could still be done anonymously. You only need to make sure that you buy your ticket using a ticket machine or at a ticket window and pay with cash.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 11:24 AM   #5738
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What is being discussed here? I cannot follow anymore
The guy is clearly trolling. Reported to mods.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 01:32 PM   #5739
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The guy is clearly trolling. Reported to mods.
You people have no idea what trolling is. An opinion that isn't the same as yours is not trolling, however ridiculous it may be.

In his opinion, communism means incessant ID checks (lol wat). It's really irritating watching easily-upset members of this forum claiming other parties are trolling when in actuality, they're just ignorant.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #5740
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You people have no idea what trolling is. An opinion that isn't the same as yours is not trolling, however ridiculous it may be.

In his opinion, communism means incessant ID checks (lol wat). It's really irritating watching easily-upset members of this forum claiming other parties are trolling when in actuality, they're just ignorant.
The topic of this thread is HSR in China, not political systems or Communism. If it goes to such offtopic call it what you want (if not trolling) but it's not meant to be discussed here which is why it has been brought to the attention of forum moderators.
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