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Old April 22nd, 2013, 08:59 PM   #5801
hmmwv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
D trains have a maximum speed of 200 km/h (used to be 250 km/h). However, the part from Shenyang to Harbin is capable of 300 km/h, so D trains don't take advantage of this.

That's why I asked whether there is a train from Beijing to Harbin that uses the upgraded track at 200 or 250 km/h, and then uses the new track from Shenyang to Harbin at 300 km/h.

I certainly did not answer that question myself
Correction, D trains do travel at 250km/h, those are the ones downgraded from 300km/h, such as the ones on Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 09:10 PM   #5802
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I didn't know there were D train that originally ran at 300 km/h.



But anyway, I still don't know what the speeds are on the different sections from Beijing to Harbin, and vice versa.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 10:22 PM   #5803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Correction, D trains do travel at 250km/h, those are the ones downgraded from 300km/h, such as the ones on Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR.
Not sure whether such speed distinction actually exists.

For example, on the line Beijing South-Jinan West, train D331 manages to cover the distance 406 km in 1:46 - and make 2 intermediate stops in that time! This time is no different than the time of G trains that also make 2 stops over that distance (1:44 to 1:58).
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 10:32 PM   #5804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post


I didn't know there were D train that originally ran at 300 km/h.



But anyway, I still don't know what the speeds are on the different sections from Beijing to Harbin, and vice versa.
D trains do travel at 300 km/h if the trainset is 300 km/h rated.

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Old April 22nd, 2013, 11:28 PM   #5805
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Cool, thanks, I did not know that!


So does this mean there are D train from Beijing to Harbin, or perhaps the other way around, that travel at 300 km/h on the new high speed track from Shenyang to Harbin?
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 12:06 AM   #5806
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Great pictures, tnx for sharing big-dog
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 03:11 AM   #5807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feisibuke View Post
D trains do travel at 300 km/h if the trainset is 300 km/h rated.
http://i.imgur.com/zDOuUNW.jpg
Very interesting. So that really means there is no difference between a D and G train.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 07:30 AM   #5808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Very interesting. So that really means there is no difference between a D and G train.
So what's the difference then? G train uses new HSR only stations and D train uses old shared stations?
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 09:29 AM   #5809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post

So does this mean there are D train from Beijing to Harbin, or perhaps the other way around, that travel at 300 km/h on the new high speed track from Shenyang to Harbin?
Not necessarily.

On Harbin-Shenyang direction, Harbin West-Shenyang North 538 km, the fastest trains, with only 1 stop at Changchun West, are G66 and G68. Trip time 1:58. Making the average speed 274 km/h. On the same route, the fastest D train, D602, makes the same one stop, but takes 2:22. Making average speed 227 km/h. Would be possible with 250 km/h speed.

On the opposite direction, fastest train is G67 with the same 1:58 trip time, but fastest D trains have multiple stops.

There is another odd thing about that D602.
It travels Shenyang North-Beijing, 703 km, in 4:39, and thus is fastest train Shenyang-Beijing. One stop, at Beidaihe. The next fastest train, D20, with also one stop, takes 4:41. On the other direction, Beijing-Shenyang, all D trains make at least 2 stops and take at least 4:44.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:35 AM   #5810
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I looked it up, D404 and D406 (that travels at 300 km/h) goes from Jinan to Beijing, and it takes 1 hour and 59 minutes cost 124.5 Yuan. However, all other D trains would take 2 hours and 31 minutes with the same cost.

While the G train that takes you from Jinan to Beijing takes 1 hour and 40 minutes to 1 hour 57 minutes cost 184-189 Yuan.

The 300 km/h D trains sounds like a real bargain, just that they all leave early in the morning.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #5811
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By 2015 there's going to be 18,000 km of high speed rail.

But does that mean 90% of high speed rail construction is done or is there going to be a post-2015 Round II of building?

Any word on post-2015 plans?
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Old April 25th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #5812
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There's unlikely to be too much money left for the building of new lines, as the governement is trying to reign in debt
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Old April 25th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #5813
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There's unlikely to be too much money left for the building of new lines, as the governement is trying to reign in debt
How much of the reining in consists of postponing lines planned before 2015 to times past 2015?
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Old April 26th, 2013, 12:48 AM   #5814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damndynamite View Post
By 2015 there's going to be 18,000 km of high speed rail.

But does that mean 90% of high speed rail construction is done or is there going to be a post-2015 Round II of building?

Any word on post-2015 plans?
That's the 2020 goal, after that new lines will still be built but at a significantly slower rate.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 01:23 AM   #5815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
There's unlikely to be too much money left for the building of new lines, as the governement is trying to reign in debt
China's overall tax revenue is growing as well.

Remember,the cost of financing the debts to build now is much less than the inflated costs five years from now.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 01:33 AM   #5816
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At some point you also build everything what is truly worth building with only marginal routes left. Not that I think China will be there in 7 years even with the current building pace. Some European countries, on the other hand, are already close.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 10:10 AM   #5817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
That's the 2020 goal, after that new lines will still be built but at a significantly slower rate.
Do post-2020 plans exist? And do they need to exist?

Construction takes a few years. Railways due to open after 2020 should start construction sometime after 2015.

It follows that there are still a couple years to decide exactly which railway lines, and how much of them, should begin construction after 2015 in order to open after 2020.

It is therefore the time to decide what should be built after 2015 to open after 2020, based on factors such as the experience of lines opened by now, the predicted debt/finance situation in 2015...2025, the predicted passenger demand in 2020...2030 et cetera.

Who decides such long term investment plans? China Rail Corporation is a business now, so presumably Sheng Guangzu.

Last edited by chornedsnorkack; April 26th, 2013 at 12:41 PM.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #5818
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I'm sure plans do exist, but it's so far out I don't think anyone is in a position to release them yet. Also bear in mind whatever they plan to do the pace will be much slower, so they may not be starting many new lines before 2020 that we'll notice. I think it's possible that only a few hundred kilometers of new HSR tracks will be built each year post 2020.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #5819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I'm sure plans do exist, but it's so far out I don't think anyone is in a position to release them yet.
Are the plans released after they are finalized and approved, or are multiple options released ahead of time for purpose of public deliberation?

The last high speed railway to open, Beijing-Shijiazhuang-Wuhan, started actual construction in October 2008. The next high speed railway to open, Nanjing-Hangzhou-Ningbo, started construction in December 2008-April 2009.

In 2012, construction started of Xuzhou-Zhengzhou (completion due in 2016), Baoji-Lanzhou (2017), Hainan Western Ring (2016).

Which high speed railways have started construction in the first 4 months of 2013?

Which high speed railways have been planned and are due to begin construction in the remaining 8 months of 2013?
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Old April 27th, 2013, 06:10 AM   #5820
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image hosted on flickr

shenzhen north stn-bullet train-2013 by kelvinhayes, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

shenzhen north stn-bullet train (front)-2013 by kelvinhayes, on Flickr
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