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Old May 30th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #5961
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by 高铁见闻
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Old May 30th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #5962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdolniak View Post
Train braking down is one thing, but the problem with the air inside such train when the A/C is not working must be awful. See article from Spiegel about broken down air-conditioning systems on German high-speed trains from 2010: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-706889.html

How it is done in Japan, France or other countries? Do passengers also are suffering in such situation?
I was on a train from Berlin to Warsaw in 2005 and they came round with a special key to open the normally sealed top bit of the window. Not that all trains have that, it would appear this one had retrofitted aircon so they could still open.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 02:36 AM   #5963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
I was on a train from Berlin to Warsaw in 2005 and they came round with a special key to open the normally sealed top bit of the window. Not that all trains have that, it would appear this one had retrofitted aircon so they could still open.
But that train wasn't high-speed train. I wonder, if for safety reasons, such windows cannot be installed in a typical high-speed train.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 05:15 AM   #5964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdolniak View Post
But that train wasn't high-speed train. I wonder, if for safety reasons, such windows cannot be installed in a typical high-speed train.
You would think there would be another type of hatch somewhere they could open to let some air in.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 05:24 AM   #5965
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I wonder why didn't they just use the doors.. ? I am sure there is a manual way to open them. Funny event
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Old May 31st, 2013, 05:33 AM   #5966
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here're some pics of the incident.



from 中华火车迷部落
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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:15 AM   #5967
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Quote:
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I wonder why didn't they just use the doors.. ? I am sure there is a manual way to open them. Funny event
Not really funny. Sitting in a car with very hot temperature inside might end up tragic for some people. Few years back (I can't find an article about it), there was a problem with the conditioning in a high-speed train in Germany. Some people had to be hospitalized after that incident. I was hoping that there is some sort of backup plan for such events other than braking windows.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 09:28 AM   #5968
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The air-conditioning system is up to industrial standards, as it needs to be able to cool gigantic areas around the clock. The opening of windows is the fallback, should the air conditioning fail. If it's impossible to open windows and the airco system malfunctions, the train is supposed to be taken out of service.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:53 PM   #5969
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I presume the train is airtight, so if the A/C breaks and you can't open the doors or windows, could people suffocate to death?
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:15 PM   #5970
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I presume the train is airtight, so if the A/C breaks and you can't open the doors or windows, could people suffocate to death?
Maybe not suffocate, but think about small children, elderly or people with some diseases. If the train would stop somewhere in an open space, under a scorching sun... That's maybe going to extreme.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 12:10 AM   #5971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
I wonder why didn't they just use the doors.. ? I am sure there is a manual way to open them. Funny event
Except that it's not funny at all and incredibly dangerous
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Old June 1st, 2013, 12:23 AM   #5972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
The air-conditioning system is up to industrial standards, as it needs to be able to cool gigantic areas around the clock. The opening of windows is the fallback, should the air conditioning fail. If it's impossible to open windows and the airco system malfunctions, the train is supposed to be taken out of service.
The train broke down in a tunnel so the problem is how to provide adequate air circulation while the train has lost propulsion in an emergency. It's a CRH1 so the doors can be opened manually without power by the crew. I think if they systematically opening all of the doors and reposition vulnerable passengers closer to the doors the situation could have been improved. My speculation is that communication was poor during the incident, which is always a problem, and some passengers became agitated and broke the window. I don't think it's broken out of necessity, but more out of frustration. What puzzled me is why did it take five hours to send a DF4 to tow the EMU away? Surely they can find a diesel quicker than that. Breakdowns such as this is still pretty rare, but CRC should start thinking about prepositioning emergency rescue diesels along important lines.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 11:26 AM   #5973
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I wonder, isn't it possible to break open the windows in case of emergency? Thats what the ICE and all air-tight trains in Austria feature. Of course, before people were suffocating to death I am sure it is always possible to emergency open the doors at the very least.

It appears to me however that the Chinese Railway needs to invest more on emergency training of its personal. Accidents and breakdowns should be events where the personal knows exactly what to do for preventing any potentially health endangering events as much as possible. Communication witht he passengers is also very important. Things like these break downs are always unpleasant but if the communication is good, this can do a lot to relief frustration of the passengers at least to some extend.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...telle_ICE1.jpg



Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
I wonder why didn't they just use the doors.. ? I am sure there is a manual way to open them. Funny event
I find your comment highly offensive. Get a life, instead of laughing about the misery of others or potentially life threatening events.
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; June 1st, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 03:40 PM   #5974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
It appears to me however that the Chinese Railway needs to invest more on emergency training of its personal. Accidents and breakdowns should be events where the personal knows exactly what to do for preventing any potentially health endangering events as much as possible. Communication with he passengers is also very important. Things like these break downs are always unpleasant but if the communication is good, this can do a lot to relief frustration of the passengers at least to some extend.
There are profound, extensive, deep and pervasive cultural issues that are beyond the scope of this forum, that apply to situations like this.

Entire libraries are currently being filled with books on the topic.

It is likely that emergency training is not the solution.

Just to barely skim the topic, staff may not wish to instruct passengers to break glass as the staff may lose part of their annual bonus. Or they may wish to avoid any decision at all.

What I tell people such as yourself is this:
Imagine how things are done on planet earth. Now imagine every single aspect of life being done in the entirely opposite fashion.
That is China.


Not appropriate topic for discussing here.

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Back on topic:
I hope that the CRH lines from Changsha to Shanghai/Kunming are running this summer. I want to travel via CRH there!
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Old June 1st, 2013, 06:33 PM   #5975
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Nothing new, We've already seen scenes like this in Europe.

And not just here

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...113_91058.html

Last edited by Norge78; June 1st, 2013 at 11:33 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 07:29 PM   #5976
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Well, I think emergency procedures are a valid point to debate in a Rail thread. No question, there is a big cultural divide but for having a functioning rail system (and that is even more the case for high speed rail) it is not sufficient to have a well working system during regular conditions. Also the ability to cope with malfunctions in a damage limiting and efficient way matters.

If necessary, these things have to be considered in they pay scheme.

And just to make one thing clear. Its not like everything is perfect in Europe either. Mess ups do happen and sometimes it also costs lives. But if that happens it is important to analyse the situations and see if in the future they can be prevented or handled in a better way.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 07:53 PM   #5977
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You can yell as much as you want and try as hard as you can to cool things down, but the biggest enemy is not lack of training, it's uneducated people that will always bring the worst out of any situation. I get it that some do need special attention but when you see people jumping in front of you be at the airport, train station, restaurant, and so on, you get a bigger picture of the real problem.

As for the CHR quality, it does not seem to be inferior to its counterparts in other countries, but it will be necessary to review the causes, specially now that a great wave of people is about to hit every transportation method nationwide.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 07:55 PM   #5978
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I forgot to mention, I have taken the CRH to Beijing several times, and most of the time there are two locomotives, I thought it was a rule.
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Old June 2nd, 2013, 12:54 AM   #5979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post


I find your comment highly offensive. Get a life, instead of laughing about the misery of others or potentially life threatening events.
It is a hilarious event. There is nothing life threatening here. It is similar to fail videos on youtube And I bet this window braking happened out of rage.
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Old June 2nd, 2013, 04:38 PM   #5980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post


I find your comment highly offensive. Get a life, instead of laughing about the misery of others or potentially life threatening events.
Nah he's a little wumao-esque and as such this event was just a funny 'youtube-like fail'
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