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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:14 AM   #6081
big-dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
It is expensive when compared to the old classic N, K, L, T and Z trains. Those can be so cheap it is nearly free, but the cost is low because you spend so much time on them.

Most trips via CRH are 3 to 8 hours and the previous old classic train would take 12 to 36 hours. 18 hours in most cases. Just such a long time.

When a train CRH ZHGT line opens the airfares on that route drop to 120% of the train ticket price.

Fast trains are doubly good in that aspect as cheap discount air fares are now available all over China.
I'm taking a HSR trip from Cangzhou to Shanghai (1108km) this afternoon. I was buying tickets yesterday and there was only 5pm train available. I can feel the tickets are getting hot day by day. TIPS: don't buy HSR ticket on the departure day or only one day in advance.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:23 AM   #6082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Well, with HSR you could transfer about a thousand troops per train over night from anywhere in China to the North-Korean border.

Have a couple hundred trains do this and in one night you'll have an entire army at that border... can't do that with trucks.
Would imagine soldiers fighting over getting seats in first class
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Old June 16th, 2013, 09:45 AM   #6083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
I'm taking a HSR trip from Cangzhou to Shanghai (1108km) this afternoon. I was buying tickets yesterday and there was only 5pm train available. I can feel the tickets are getting hot day by day. TIPS: don't buy HSR ticket on the departure day or only one day in advance.
Does it mean that there is a need to increase frequencies?
Are there any plans, or possibilities, to do so?

Also, it shall be 30th of June in 2 weeks. Have any more detailed schedules been disclosed?

Specifically in this case: out of the 11 daily G trains Shanghai-Cangzhou, 3 (G38, G54, G44) come from Hangzhou.

Does it mean that the frequencies Shanghai-Cangzhou shall be decreased from 11 to 8 in a fortnight, because the Hangzhou trains shall travel directly via Nanjing and cease service to Shanghai?
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Old June 16th, 2013, 10:44 AM   #6084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Well, with HSR you could transfer about a thousand troops per train over night from anywhere in China to the North-Korean border.

Have a couple hundred trains do this and in one night you'll have an entire army at that border... can't do that with trucks.
Moving troops via HSR is not very practical in real combat since foot soldiers are pretty useless without their technical equipment. Any North Korean scenario will involve Shenyang Military Region which is close enough to the border that several hours of truck ride will get them there. As for reinforcement from other parts of China, most major PLA units are stationed near rail transfer points so both troops and equipment can be shipped to anywhere in China within a day or two.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #6085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Well, with HSR you could transfer about a thousand troops per train over night from anywhere in China to the North-Korean border.

Have a couple hundred trains do this and in one night you'll have an entire army at that border... can't do that with trucks.
Nope.

An army on foot is pretty much useless because it can't go anywhere.

You need trucks to transport them to where they need to be, because having an army stuck in Dandong is pointless.

Plus if they decide to start marching on foot, how far are they going to get and how fast? And where are their supplies going to come from?
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Old June 17th, 2013, 01:35 AM   #6086
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Nope.

An army on foot is pretty much useless because it can't go anywhere.

You need trucks to transport them to where they need to be, because having an army stuck in Dandong is pointless.

Plus if they decide to start marching on foot, how far are they going to get and how fast? And where are their supplies going to come from?
I was talking about getting them to the border by train, and you start talking about marching on foot
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Old June 17th, 2013, 05:08 AM   #6087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
I was talking about getting them to the border by train, and you start talking about marching on foot
He was trying to say "you can only carry troops". And troops without their heavy equipment is nothing. Get it?
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Old June 17th, 2013, 06:21 AM   #6088
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He was trying to say "you can only carry troops". And troops without their heavy equipment is nothing. Get it?
A million Chinese troops with their AK's and bayonets, together with the heavy equipment already present near the border, are enough to contain any and all things trying to come from North-Korea
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Old June 17th, 2013, 06:55 AM   #6089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Does it mean that there is a need to increase frequencies?
Are there any plans, or possibilities, to do so?

Also, it shall be 30th of June in 2 weeks. Have any more detailed schedules been disclosed?

Specifically in this case: out of the 11 daily G trains Shanghai-Cangzhou, 3 (G38, G54, G44) come from Hangzhou.

Does it mean that the frequencies Shanghai-Cangzhou shall be decreased from 11 to 8 in a fortnight, because the Hangzhou trains shall travel directly via Nanjing and cease service to Shanghai?
I believe they should increase the frequency or reduce class-I seats. I haven't seen the complete new timetable for Beijing-shanghai HSR but I heard many D trains will be changed to G trains so HSR frequency may increase between the two cities.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 06:59 AM   #6090
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Originally Posted by duskdawn View Post
Complete construction 5/29/2006 and will be functional in later June.







I am not Chinese. But I want live in China
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Old June 17th, 2013, 10:30 AM   #6091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
A million Chinese troops with their AK's and bayonets, together with the heavy equipment already present near the border, are enough to contain any and all things trying to come from North-Korea
Sigh

North Korean troops aren't coming across the border into China.

It's China which is now making contingency plans for its troops to cross into North Korea, in the event of its collapse.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 10:36 AM   #6092
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
I haven't seen the complete new timetable for Beijing-shanghai HSR but I heard many D trains will be changed to G trains
Thatīs impossible.
There are not many D trains now. There are only 4 D trains on Beijing-Shanghai HSR, and 37 G trains. So it is impossible to change many D trains.

Are all Beijing-Shanghai trains 16 cars already, or are there many 8 car trains now running?
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Old June 17th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #6093
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not necessarily Beijing-Shanghai end to end trains. For example AFAIK at least the following D trains will be changed to G trains,

D356 -> G204
D355 -> G201
D339 -> G189
D346/7 -> G172/1
D334 -> G190
D325 -> G211
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Old June 17th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #6094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
North Korean troops aren't coming across the border into China.
Millions of refugees which China has no interest in dealing with.

Quote:

It's China which is now making contingency plans for its troops to cross into North Korea, in the event of its collapse.
Which makes it very handy to be able to transport massive amounts of troops by HSR.


Armies already transport troops by regular rail. HSR just speeds up that process. Getting extra heavy equipment to those troops of course can't be done by HSR, but that doesn't mean it's not an advantage to get the troops there quicker. Otherwise they also wouldn't be transported by regular rail.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #6095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Armies already transport troops by regular rail. HSR just speeds up that process. Getting extra heavy equipment to those troops of course can't be done by HSR, but that doesn't mean it's not an advantage to get the troops there quicker. Otherwise they also wouldn't be transported by regular rail.
You should be aware that PLA does not preposition its equipment at various sites around the country, HSR is only useful to transport infantry and their personal gear, maybe, just maybe some limited amount of crew served weapons. There is absolutely no point of shipping a couple divisions of infantry to the boarder a day quicker just so they can wait around for their equipment to arrive.
Military trains with special designation already get priority over other trains so it's already very fast to get them around the country, any North Korean crisis is not likely to develop within a day or two so regular train should be sufficiently quick.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 01:04 AM   #6096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Millions of refugees which China has no interest in dealing with.



Which makes it very handy to be able to transport massive amounts of troops by HSR.


Armies already transport troops by regular rail. HSR just speeds up that process. Getting extra heavy equipment to those troops of course can't be done by HSR, but that doesn't mean it's not an advantage to get the troops there quicker. Otherwise they also wouldn't be transported by regular rail.
Having a lot of troops at the border is POINTLESS.

They need vehicles to move around and to be resupplied, so you might as well send them with the vehicles.
It is quicker to send troops directly from bases in Shenyang to North Korea, than to split everyone up to use the HSR, and then get them mated up again with their equipment.
I really would suggest you learn about what happens in real-life when an army is mobilized and the confusion that results when they change vehicles.

===

And think about it. If a soldier meets a refugee at the border, do they march the refugee 10km (2hours) to camp and then another 2hours back to the border?

Sheesh
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Old June 18th, 2013, 05:35 AM   #6097
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HK to Shenzhen High speed link

Cannot wait for this link to open. Why is it takes too long to open a less than 30km tunnel in HK?

Subway trips via Louhu from Kowloon is just pain. I am almost ready to rent or buy an apartment in SZ near the SZ North station and goes to work to HK via high speed train. HK apartment prices just sucks. When the high speed rail will be open, probably 25% of the HK people will relocate to Shenzhen.

Please God let them dig faster..

Last edited by silent_dragon; June 18th, 2013 at 05:41 AM.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 06:50 AM   #6098
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Dalian to Shangdong rail tunnel

I read this somewhere. Was this project already started or just in the drawing board? This must be over a 100km+ tunnel.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #6099
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Originally Posted by silent_dragon View Post
Cannot wait for this link to open. Why is it takes too long to open a less than 30km tunnel in HK?

Subway trips via Louhu from Kowloon is just pain. I am almost ready to rent or buy an apartment in SZ near the SZ North station and goes to work to HK via high speed train. HK apartment prices just sucks. When the high speed rail will be open, probably 25% of the HK people will relocate to Shenzhen.

Please God let them dig faster..
Tunneling is the most expensive thing to do, irregular soil, layers of unknown substance appear out of nowhere, and HK has rules and regulations to follow that the mainland does not.

I have stayed in SZ and traveled back-forth to HK Island and it's time consuming and not convenient. Even with a fast rail link it is a long long walk through the various border controls.

Also HK is not eager to become part of Guangdong for so many reasons.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #6100
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This, pretty much

In HK, property can't simply be taken and built upon, various claims have to be heard, environmental studies pursued, and the bitter political climate is important to take note of too.
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