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Old July 29th, 2013, 04:40 AM   #6261
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Anyone knows if it is possible to get a high speed train ticket for the day or the next day at a station in Beijing or Shanghai during chunyun (rush period around the chinese new year)?
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Old July 29th, 2013, 05:18 AM   #6262
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Originally Posted by dao123 View Post
Anyone knows if it is possible to get a high speed train ticket for the day or the next day at a station in Beijing or Shanghai during chunyun (rush period around the chinese new year)?
I thought the migrants would be taking the cheap trains. They cannot afford G/D comfort. That being said, the middle class will also be on the move, so best to buy a ticket as early as possible (although they only release tickets within a set time frame beforehand, so cannot book now).
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Old July 29th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #6263
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
"It feels like a time warp"

Nice take on the project.
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A high-speed railway that will enable passengers to travel the 1,900 km between the northwest Chinese cities of Lanzhou and Urumqi in eight hours upon completion in 2014
Quote:
The new railway will be linked to the country's railway network from Lanzhou after operation. Traveling from Beijing to Urumqi, which are more than 3,000 km apart, will take less than one day.
This would require that travel from Beijing to Lanzhou should take less than 16 hours.

Not possible in 2014. The fastest train from Beijing to Lanzhou now is T27, via Taiyuan, that takes 17:02.

How is the progress of high speed railways between Beijing and Lanzhou?
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Old July 29th, 2013, 10:21 PM   #6264
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I thought the migrants would be taking the cheap trains. They cannot afford G/D comfort. That being said, the middle class will also be on the move, so best to buy a ticket as early as possible (although they only release tickets within a set time frame beforehand, so cannot book now).
When I made the mistake of taking CRH during Chunyun in 2012 it was packed with migrant workers. I don't think purchasing ticket a day in advance is gonna work, I'd suggest at least a week.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #6265
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Not possible in 2014. The fastest train from Beijing to Lanzhou now is T27, via Taiyuan, that takes 17:02.
Fastest single train is T27. There are several possibilities to change trains in Xi'an and reduce the total time Beijing - Lanzhou to 14 hours, but

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How is the progress of high speed railways between Beijing and Lanzhou?
One problem seems to be in Xi'an where they are missing a HSR connection between Xi'an Bei and Xi'an Shaanxi.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:11 PM   #6266
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Caternary is being installed on Datong-Xian.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 10:11 PM   #6267
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That's a long line, according to Wikipedia it will be a 250km/h line, why not 350km/h? Terrain? Either way 16.5 hours to over 3 hrs is a huge improvement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datong%...d_Railway_Line
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 02:25 AM   #6268
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That's a long line, according to Wikipedia it will be a 250km/h line, why not 350km/h? Terrain? Either way 16.5 hours to over 3 hrs is a huge improvement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datong%...d_Railway_Line
Realistically that time will be 4 hours not 3. The terrain is mostly flat loess plain except for some mountains on the way to Datong. North of Datong is mountainous and in the south it crosses the Yellow River ~70kms north of the current rail bridge, then tunnels under a mountain to connect up with the line from Xian to Zhengzhou at Weinan.

It will likely be a 250 line traveling at 200kph, so the trip from Datong to Xian will be 3.75 to 4.25 hours to cover the 859kms. Not 3 hours.

250 because of money, that province is poor, and justifying 380 speed on that line is not currently politically viable. Most of the inner party come from Beijing or Shanghai. One is from Shanxi, and that's why this line got built.

CE's here tell me that those 250 lines can be tweaked up to increase speed, but wear, maintenance and other issues arise. But it can be done if the caternary is spaced and tensioned correctly. Those are the main issues - tolerances on the rail, and the oscillations in the wire overhead. The rest is how much money you want to spend on energy, maintenance, and wearing out the trains and infrastructure.

You *could* go 400 on a 250 line, but it would wear out very fast and be dangerous in places as curves are not graded properly and the caternary/pantograph and wheel/track interfaces will wear rapidly. You also would set up standing waves in the power lines and that would be bad.
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Last edited by China Hand; August 3rd, 2013 at 06:20 AM.
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 03:30 AM   #6269
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Typhoon Jebi halts Hainan East HSR
Details at www.12306.cn and www.accuweather.com
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 06:18 AM   #6270
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Originally Posted by dao123 View Post
Anyone knows if it is possible to get a high speed train ticket for the day or the next day at a station in Beijing or Shanghai during chunyun (rush period around the chinese new year)?
Possible? Yes.
Likely? No.

Buy them 20 or 21 days in advance. Get there early, first in line. Demand is huge, supply gone quickly.

If you are a foreigner, the clerk may take pity on you for being stupid, and find a way to squeeze you on the train if you just walk up that day or the previous.

If you live in China, book at a train ticket storefront, the station, or online.

If you are visiting, spend the extra money and have someone buy them for you. Yes, they will 4x charge you, but there is NO WAY you will get a ticket at that time.
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 06:40 AM   #6271
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
This would require that travel from Beijing to Lanzhou should take less than 16 hours.

Not possible in 2014. The fastest train from Beijing to Lanzhou now is T27, via Taiyuan, that takes 17:02
Beijing-Xian, 5 or 6 hours
Xian-Lanzhou 6.5 to 8 hours

Once the Baoji leg is completed that will shorten the trip time about two hours.

It will be that last leg, to be completed in 2017, that connects Lanzhou to Xian, that will remove the final slow section. Then the time will not be 8 hours, but 2.5 hours.
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 06:44 AM   #6272
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Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Realistically that time will be 4 hours not 3. The terrain is mostly flat loess plain except for some mountains on the way to Datong. North of Datong is mountainous and in the south it crosses the Yellow River ~70kms north of the current rail bridge, then tunnels under a mountain to connect up with the line from Xian to Zhengzhou at Weinan.

It will likely be a 250 line traveling at 200kph, so the trip from Datong to Xian will be 3.75 to 4.25 hours to cover the 859kms. Not 3 hours.

250 because of money, that province is poor, and justifying 380 speed on that line is not currently politically viable. Most of the inner party come from Beijing or Shanghai. One is from Shanxi, and that's why this line got built.

CE's here tell me that those 250 lines can be tweaked up to increase speed, but wear, maintenance and other issues arise. But it can be done if the caternary is spaced and tensioned correctly. Those are the main issues - tolerances on the rail, and the oscillations in the wire overhead. The rest is how much money you want to spend on energy, maintenance, and wearing out the trains and infrastructure.

You *could* go 400 on a 250 line, but it would wear out very fast and be dangerous in places as curves are not graded properly and the caternary/pantograph and wheel/track interfaces will wear rapidly. You also would set up standing waves in the power lines and that would be bad.
It's better than what we have in the US ..... for future proofing the line I thought it would make sense build it capable of 350km/h now and run it at 200km/h then if things get better in the region, run it faster. Thanks for the explanation...
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 09:59 AM   #6273
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Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
It will likely be a 250 line traveling at 200kph, so the trip from Datong to Xian will be 3.75 to 4.25 hours to cover the 859kms. Not 3 hours.
Besides, Taiyuan-Shijiazhuang is also 250 km/h, not faster.

In which month of 2014 does Datong-Taiyuan-Xian high speed railway open for service?

When it does, what shall the trip time be Datong-Taiyuan-Shijiazhuang-Beijing on high speed railways throughout? And how shall it compare with the trip time direct Datong-Kalgan-Beijing, but on the slow speed railway?
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 02:25 PM   #6274
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Besides, Taiyuan-Shijiazhuang is also 250 km/h, not faster.
Speeds on those sections are 140 to 200kph, not 250kph.
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 02:37 PM   #6275
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It's better than what we have in the US ..... for future proofing the line I thought it would make sense build it capable of 350km/h now and run it at 200km/h then if things get better in the region, run it faster. Thanks for the explanation...
There are actually downsides to being a first adopter.

In Africa people are jumping straight to 3G and 4G mobile phone networks, without even having 2G or POTS phones first.

Without an existing infrastructure, a contractor can come in and install the most recent technology and the poorest of nations can have access to the best technology quicker and at a lower price/cost than a more developed nation that spent money 20 years ago to install what is now an outdated network.

The USA has physical copper wire to most of its houses and buildings, work done in the first half of the 20th C. The businesses that installed that are resistant to putting in the new tech, as it costs them money and cuts into profits.

Many parts of rural North America still have no internet access or cable tv and must do it with satellite dishes as the companies that have the telecommunication monopoly for their community simply won't wire up the houses.

Villagers in an undeveloped nation may in fact have access to a more modern network.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 07:52 PM   #6276
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I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates to building a 350km/h capable line instead of a 250km/h capable line in a certain part of the country because it is poor. My understanding is that this line was built to slower standards because it's a poor part of the country. I feel like they should have built it to higher standards because in the future faster transport will be more feasible. They can run trains at 200km/h now on a 350km/h line and when the financial situation improves in the region, start running at 300km/h+.

Then again, just the fact that they're building a high speed PDL in the area is a good thing.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 08:17 PM   #6277
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Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Possible? Yes.
Likely? No.

Buy them 20 or 21 days in advance. Get there early, first in line. Demand is huge, supply gone quickly.

If you are a foreigner, the clerk may take pity on you for being stupid, and find a way to squeeze you on the train if you just walk up that day or the previous.

If you live in China, book at a train ticket storefront, the station, or online.

If you are visiting, spend the extra money and have someone buy them for you. Yes, they will 4x charge you, but there is NO WAY you will get a ticket at that time.
It's a lousy timing for a visit unless you have relatives there who otherwise wouldn't have any time to spend with you.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 01:36 AM   #6278
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My understanding is that this line was built to slower standards because it's a poor part of the country. I feel like they should have built it to higher standards because in the future faster transport will be more feasible.
I believe the slower standards are cheaper and thus more affordable, or politically justifiable, in a poor part of the country. The next question is will in the future faster transport be more affordable in this same part of the country?
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Old August 5th, 2013, 12:18 PM   #6279
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I believe the slower standards are cheaper and thus more affordable, or politically justifiable, in a poor part of the country. The next question is will in the future faster transport be more affordable in this same part of the country?
Look at the geography of Taiyuan - Shijiazhuang.

The extra speed doesn't make much difference to journey times.
Plus the route is probably doesn't have enough traffic to justify the extra cost.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #6280
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Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
I believe the slower standards are cheaper and thus more affordable, or politically justifiable, in a poor part of the country. The next question is will in the future faster transport be more affordable in this same part of the country?
I think this likely the reason, a 250km/h line running D trains is easier to be approved by NDRC than a proper Gaotie line running G trains. It's also a lower profile project that will likely attract less public opposition.
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