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Old August 30th, 2013, 09:22 PM   #6441
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admns View Post

Construction is completed in august 15 and expected to open in the end of this year or before the next spring festival.

Fare: Xiamen to Shenzhen full fare 190 yuan. Hangzhou and Shenzhen full fare is about 440 yuan.
What shall be the trip time Shenzhen-Shanghai?
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Old August 31st, 2013, 05:05 AM   #6442
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Wonderful! Soon it will be easy to go from Hong Kong to Shanghai by rail.

The distance will be ~1745kms, 250kph trains running at 200kph avg speeds, about 8 hours 45m.

The long distance legs of PDL in China are all timed to be done in one day, 10 hours 16m are the current max for many of the long train trips on the CRH high speed lines. Xian-Shenzhen, Xian-Guangzhou, Shanghai-Shenzhen, Beijing-Guangzhou, etc. are 8 to 9 hours.

I really hope they can budget more money and get these lines up to 300/350 so that the times drop.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 07:54 AM   #6443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Wonderful! Soon it will be easy to go from Hong Kong to Shanghai by rail.

The distance will be ~1745kms, 250kph trains running at 200kph avg speeds, about 8 hours 45m.

The long distance legs of PDL in China are all timed to be done in one day, 10 hours 16m are the current max for many of the long train trips on the CRH high speed lines. Xian-Shenzhen, Xian-Guangzhou, Shanghai-Shenzhen, Beijing-Guangzhou, etc. are 8 to 9 hours.

I really hope they can budget more money and get these lines up to 300/350 so that the times drop.
It is really more reasonable the coastal line shanghai to shenzhen to run up to 350 kph. The cities along this line are very rich and dynamic. Therefore will contribute much in economic integration and expansion.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 10:00 AM   #6444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Wonderful! Soon it will be easy to go from Hong Kong to Shanghai by rail.
Only after the high speed railway Kowloon West-Futian-Longhua shall have opened for service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
The distance will be ~1745kms, 250kph trains running at 200kph avg speeds, about 8 hours 45m.
How shall this be possible? The distance Xiamen-Hongqiao is 1140 km now. And the fastest train, D3204, takes 8:24.
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
The long distance legs of PDL in China are all timed to be done in one day, 10 hours 16m are the current max for many of the long train trips on the CRH high speed lines. Xian-Shenzhen, Xian-Guangzhou, Shanghai-Shenzhen, Beijing-Guangzhou, etc. are 8 to 9 hours.
Longyan-Nanjing D3137/D3136 is 1566 km, and 12 hours 9 m.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 07:04 PM   #6445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


A 250km/h line with CRH5's?
probably CRH1A or CRH3C
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Old August 31st, 2013, 07:06 PM   #6446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What shall be the trip time Shenzhen-Shanghai?
8 or 9 hours
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Old August 31st, 2013, 11:40 PM   #6447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What shall be the trip time Shenzhen-Shanghai?
8 or 9 hours
Hmmm, D3119 seems currently fastest Shanghai Hongqiao - Xiamen Bei 8h23'
It's gonna take another few hours to truck on down the coast to Shenzhen.
You can do Shanghai - Shenzhen now in 10 hours by changing trains at
Wuhan or Changsha.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 02:06 AM   #6448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
Hmmm, D3119 seems currently fastest Shanghai Hongqiao - Xiamen Bei 8h23'
It's gonna take another few hours to truck on down the coast to Shenzhen.
You can do Shanghai - Shenzhen now in 10 hours by changing trains at
Wuhan or Changsha.
Perhaps a Shenzhen - Shanghai service along the coast will have fewer stops than the current Xiamen - Shanghai service along the coast?
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Old September 1st, 2013, 05:19 AM   #6449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Perhaps a Shenzhen - Shanghai service along the coast will have fewer stops than the current Xiamen - Shanghai service along the coast?
Note that on this section of track such a train would also be e.g. Shenzhen - Linhai and/or Raoping - Shanghai.
The intermediate stops are shared amongst the available trains to minimise leapfrogging.

Even G55 Beijing - Fuzhou slows down on the coast. It does Bj - Nanjing S 1023km, 6 stops, 235km/hr;
Nanjing S - Ningbo E 416km, 5 stops, 168km/hr; Ningbo - Fuzhou 572km, 7 stops, 148km/hr

The coastal line is providing a local service to places that never had trains before.
If you want big city long distance, you're better taking the 350km/hr trunk lines.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #6450
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I have made some calculations regarding the new timetable between Shanghai and the Pearl River Delta (Guangzhou/Shenzhen), once the new high speed lines are open. This would include the Xiamen - Shenzhen Coastal and the Hangzhou - Changsha lines.
Travelling via Changsha will be close to 2 hours faster than via Xiamen.

If one day the high speed line between Shenzhen and Hong Kong is completed, it is feasible to travel between Shanghai and Kowloon in less than 8 hours (via Changsha).

Code:
Shanghai - Guangzhou/Shenzhen via Changsha

G502

Shanghai Hongqiao - Hangzhou East   10:00 - 10:45   (159 km in 0 h 45 min)
Hangzhou East - Nanchang                 10:49 - n/a
Nanchang - Changsha South           n/a   - 14:29   (926 km in 3 h 40 min)
Changsha South - Guangzhou South    14:34 - 16:52   (707 km in 2 h 18 min)
Guangzhou South - Shenzhen North    16:56 - 17:25   (102 km in 0 h 29 min)


Shanghai - Shenzhen/Guangzhou via Xiamen

G500
Shanghai Hongqiao - Hangzhou East   09:00 - 09:45   (159 km in 0 h 45 min)
Hangzhou East - Ningbo East         09:49 - 10:42   (160 km in 0 h 53 min)
Ningbo East - Fuzhou South          10:45 - 13:56   (564 km in 3 h 11 min) * reduced by 20 min from the fastest train currently
Fuzhou South - Xiamen North         14:00 - 15:13   (226 km in 1 h 13 min) * reduced by 10 min from the fastest train currently
Xiamen North - Shantou              15:17 - n/a
Shantou - Shenzhen North            n/a   - 18:16   (502 km in 2 h 59 min)
Shenzhen North - Guangzhou South    18:20 - 18:49   (102 km in 0 h 29 min)

Summary:

Shanghai Hongqiao - Guangzhou South
- Air Distance 1209 km
- via Changsha 1792 km in 6 h 52 min  (avg. speed 261 km/h)
- via Xiamen   1713 km in 9 h 49 min  (avg. speed 175 km/h)

Shanghai Hongqiao - Shenzhen North
- Air Distance 1195 km
- via Changsha 1894 km in 7 h 25 min  (avg. speed 255 km/h)
- via Xiamen   1611 km in 9 h 16 min  (avg. speed 174 km/h)
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Last edited by doc7austin; September 8th, 2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #6451
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D line speeds

For comparison, letīs see the 250 km/h lines.

Beijing-Shenyang - part of the route is 160 km/h:
Fastest D trains - 4 equal at 4:48, with equally 3 stops, but different ones.
Slowest D train - D101, 5:03 again with 3 stops
D train with most stops - D9 with 6 stops and 5:01.

Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan:
Fastest D trains - 2 nonstops at 1:17
Slowest G train - G613, 1:25 with 1 stop

Jinan-Qingdao:
Fastest G train - G187, 2:33 with 1 stop
Slowest D train - D339, 3:03 with 5 stops
Maximal stops fastest - D6003, 5 stops in 2:51

Shanghai-Hefei:
Fastest G train - G576, 2:36 with 5 stops
Slowest D train - D5466, 4:08 with 12 stops

Shanghai-Wuhan:
Fastest - the lone G train G576, 4:56 with 6 stops
The second fastest - D3046, 5:41 with 7 stops
Slowest D train - D3022, 6:32 with 12 stops
Most stops - D3064, 6:15 with 14 stops

Nanjing-Wuhan:
Fastest - G577, 3:28 with 2 stops
Slowest - D3069, 4:08 with 6 stops
Most stops - D3065, 3:59 with 7 stops

Wuhan-Yichang:
Fastest - D5821, 1:44 with 1 stop
Slowest - D5882, 2:33 with 5 stops
Most stops - D5833, 6 stops in 2:21

Hangzhou-Fuzhou:
Fastest - G55, 4:57 with 7 stops
Slowest - D3207, 6:04 with 15 stops
Fastest with most stops - D3111, 16 stops in 5:50

Ningbo-Fuzhou:
Fastest - D3103, 3:31 with 3 stops
Slowest - D3207, 4:41 with 12 stops
Fastest with most stops - 2 trains equally 13 stops in 4:22

Fuzhou-Xiamen:
Fastest - 3 trains equally 1:23 with 2 stops. These include Quanzhou, but the other varies.
Slowest - D6209, 2:18 with 6 stops
Fastest with most stops - D6331 and D6333, both 2:02 with 6 stops.

In view of these examples, how would it be reasonable to provide faster express services on the existing lines adhering to existing restrictions (200 km/h on 250 km/h lines)?
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #6452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
how would it be reasonable to provide faster express services on the existing lines adhering to existing restrictions (200 km/h on 250 km/h lines)?
What's an express service? IOW how big or important does an intermediate stop have to be to make it worth stopping there yet still be an "express" service? And the timetable needs careful massaging to make sure "slower" trains are stopped at a station to allow the express past.

Comparing D3205 and D3231 Ningbo - Xiamen Bei, suggests 3 minutes saving per intermediate stop eliminated. So an express Ningbo - Xiamen B. that stopped only at Taizhou, Wenzhou, Fuzhou, could in theory shave 40 minutes off present running time, provided all the slower trains were properly lined up at the passing points. I'd rather not think about the complications of crossing the slow trains onto the other track to pass ...
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Old September 10th, 2013, 01:52 AM   #6453
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Non-stop services between major cities, such as Nanjing-Wuhan, Shanghai-Wuhan, or Shanghai-Hefei.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #6454
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Non-stop services between major cities, such as Nanjing-Wuhan, Shanghai-Wuhan, or Shanghai-Hefei.
Not only.
But look at the G train lines.
1318 km Beijing-Shanghai - expresses include 1 stop (Nanjing, 4:48) and 2 stop services (Nanjing and Jinan, 4:55) - the 3 digit non-expresses are from 5:24 (6 stops) to 5:44 (8 stops)
2104 km Beijing-Guangzhou - express has 4 stops (Shijiazhuang, Zhengzhou, Wuhan, Changsha, 7:59), the non-expresses are 9:27 (12 stops) and 9:38 (14 stops)
Beijing-Xian - express G87 has 1 stop at 4:40, the G6xx non-expresses are from 5:27 (6 stops) to 5:59 (10 stops)
Guangzhou-Xian - express G96 has 3 stops (Changsha, Wuhan, Zhengzhou, 7:40), the G8xx non-expresses are from 8:51 (11 stops) to 9:09 (13 stops).

So - say there were express trains Hangzhou-Xiamen with stops at Ningbo, Wenzhou and Fuzhou, but skipping all others.
What would the reasonable time be?
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Old September 10th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #6455
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Not only.
So - say there were express trains Hangzhou-Xiamen with stops at Ningbo, Wenzhou and Fuzhou, but skipping all others.
What would the reasonable time be?
My guesstimate 6h +- 10m.
Your examples from the G lines might not extrapolate cleanly because stops will be designed further apart than on a D line. Of course no train stops at all stations, but the running distance can affect the time a "slow" train has to wait for a "fast" train to pass. Also as traffic density builds up controlling mixed speed trains gets trickier.

Your example of Beijing - Xi'an is comparable in distance and number of stops to the coastal route. You didn't mention G2507 which has only 12 stops but takes 6h 31m having one 4 minute stop (Shijiazhuang), one 9 minute stop (Xingtai East), and one 18 minute stop (Zhengding Jichang). It does an average speed of 230 - 233 km/hr start to stop, on several sections of the trip, but only 187km/hr overall.

There's the dilemma for railway managers, what's the balance between competing with flying on the Beijing - Xi'an route, or providing highspeed service to those cities from as many intermediate stops as practical?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 08:56 AM   #6456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Not only.
But look at the G train lines.
1318 km Beijing-Shanghai - expresses include 1 stop (Nanjing, 4:48) and 2 stop services (Nanjing and Jinan, 4:55) - the 3 digit non-expresses are from 5:24 (6 stops) to 5:44 (8 stops)
2104 km Beijing-Guangzhou - express has 4 stops (Shijiazhuang, Zhengzhou, Wuhan, Changsha, 7:59), the non-expresses are 9:27 (12 stops) and 9:38 (14 stops)
Beijing-Xian - express G87 has 1 stop at 4:40, the G6xx non-expresses are from 5:27 (6 stops) to 5:59 (10 stops)
Guangzhou-Xian - express G96 has 3 stops (Changsha, Wuhan, Zhengzhou, 7:40), the G8xx non-expresses are from 8:51 (11 stops) to 9:09 (13 stops).

So - say there were express trains Hangzhou-Xiamen with stops at Ningbo, Wenzhou and Fuzhou, but skipping all others.
What would the reasonable time be?
It's unfair that, the fastest train and slowest train, despite the large travel time difference, are priced the same

Last edited by big-dog; September 11th, 2013 at 09:10 AM.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 08:58 AM   #6457
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The "Big yellow duck" and HSR



by Luo Chunxiao
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Old September 11th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #6458
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what is thatt...? only a statue or something else? so weird..
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Old September 11th, 2013, 09:56 AM   #6459
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Rubber Duck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_Duck_(sculpture)

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Old September 11th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #6460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
My guesstimate 6h +- 10m.
Your examples from the G lines might not extrapolate cleanly because stops will be designed further apart than on a D line. Of course no train stops at all stations,
But that is not "of course".
Compare the G line Wuhan-Guangzhou.
There are 14 stations in total between Wuhan and Guangzhou South (Wulongquan East and Lechang East are not open to any trains at all. When shall they open for service?).
The 2 D trains on the line, D2101 and D2103 DO exactly stop in all 14 stations. And take 6:01 and 6:31.
The G trains are:
4 express trains with 1 stop (Changsha) take 3:39 and 3:41.
The G trains start from 4 stop ones (from 4:03 to 4:17) and go on to 7 stop trains (4:33 and 4:37).
Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
There's the dilemma for railway managers, what's the balance between competing with flying on the Beijing - Xi'an route, or providing highspeed service to those cities from as many intermediate stops as practical?
Wuhan-Guangzhou manages to mix expresses, with the lone stop at Changsha, with all-stop trains.
Should Hangzhou-Xiamen do the same?
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