daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 24th, 2013, 02:11 PM   #6501
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilda Wang
Speedy Trains Transform China

CHANGSHA, China — The cavernous rail station here for China’s new high-speed trains was nearly deserted when it opened less than four years ago.

Not anymore. Practically every train is sold out, although they leave for cities all over the country every several minutes. Long lines snake back from ticket windows under the 50-foot ceiling of white, gently undulating steel that floats cloudlike over the departure hall. An ambitious construction program will soon nearly double the size of the 16-platform station.

continued
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/bu...ewanted=1&_r=0
What is the bottleneck at Changsha now?

Not enough platforms at Changsha Station to add more trains, not enough trains completed to put into service, or not enough space on railway lines to run more trains?
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 24th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #6502
timeandspace
Registered User
 
timeandspace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 726

The New York Times

Despite a Deadly Crash, Rail System Has Good Safety Record




By KEITH BRADSHER

Published: September 23, 2013
__________________

FM 2258, Highcliff liked this post
timeandspace no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 06:02 PM   #6503
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What is the bottleneck at Changsha now?

Not enough platforms at Changsha Station to add more trains, not enough trains completed to put into service, or not enough space on railway lines to run more trains?
Given that they're building more platforms, that would likely be the issue.

At the moment, it looks like there are 80 trains per day, so the headways are about every 10minutes.

But the signalling system should be able to cope with a train every 5minutes.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 06:08 PM   #6504
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Given that they're building more platforms, that would likely be the issue.
When is Changsha-Nanchang-Hangzhou high speed railway due to open?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 06:46 PM   #6505
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
When is Changsha-Nanchang-Hangzhou high speed railway due to open?
It's set to be finished and start testing by the end of next year, so opening will be sometime in 2015.
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #6506
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post

At the moment, it looks like there are 80 trains per day, so the headways are about every 10minutes.
On the route Changsha-Wuhan (347 km) I count 57 now:
1 at 7:30
1 at 8:10
3 during 9:xx
3 during 10:xx
4 during 11:xx
6 during 12:xx
7 during 13:xx
5 during 14:xx
5 during 15:xx
5 during 16:xx
4 during 17:xx
4 during 18:xx
3 during 19:xx
4 during 20:xx
2 during 21:xx
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #6507
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
On the route Changsha-Wuhan (347 km) I count 57 now:
1 at 7:30
1 at 8:10
3 during 9:xx
3 during 10:xx
4 during 11:xx
6 during 12:xx
7 during 13:xx
5 during 14:xx
5 during 15:xx
5 during 16:xx
4 during 17:xx
4 during 18:xx
3 during 19:xx
4 during 20:xx
2 during 21:xx
Did you count direct Wuhan-Guangzhou trains that don't stop at Changsha, but which still have to pass the station?
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #6508
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388



Such trains once existed, but stopped long ago. All trains Guangzhou-Wuhan stop in Changsha - expresses stop only there, all non-expresses have at least 2 more stops.

For comparison, there are 56 trains Taipei-Zuoying (339 km):
2 during 6:xx
6 during 7:xx
6 during 8:xx
6 during 9:xx
5 during 10:xx
3 during 11:xx
4 during 12:xx
4 during 13:xx
4 during 14:xx
5 during 15:xx
5 during 16:xx
5 during 17:xx
6 during 18:xx
6 during 19:xx
5 during 20:xx
4 during 21:xx
1 at 22:12
though many of them run on some weekdays only, and they do not all run at any weekday.
There are also 147 daily trains Nagoya-Tokyo (342 km).

Last edited by chornedsnorkack; September 24th, 2013 at 10:28 PM.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 10:44 PM   #6509
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612



Can this line reach the capacity and frequency like Japan? I thought 57 seemed like a lot yet 147 is like wow-a lot.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 11:01 PM   #6510
xinxingren
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 269
Likes (Received): 71

The extra platforms will be not only for eastbound Changsha-Nanchang-Shanghai traffic,
but the track layout must be devised for these trains to continue westwards Changsha-Guiyang-Kunming.
xinxingren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #6511
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Nagoya-Tokyo:
6 trains during 6:xx
9 trains during 7:xx
10 trains during 8:xx
10 trains during 9:xx
10 trains during 10:xx
9 trains during 11:xx
8 trains during 12:xx
8 trains during 13:xx
8 trains during 14:xx
8 trains during 15:xx
9 trains during 16:xx
10 trains during 17:xx
10 trains during 18:xx
10 trains during 19:xx
8 trains during 20:xx
5 trains during 21:xx
1 train at 22:10.

Which way shall Nanchang-Guiyang railway cross Guangzhou-Wuhan railway at Changsha? Specifically, which turns shall require reversal of trains, and which shall not?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 12:29 AM   #6512
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

I'm surprised at how few trains run during the supposedly morning rush hour, only 8 trains between 7:30 and 11:00?! They could easily double the current 57 trains by running more frequent trains during those hours, and extend service time to 0600 and 2300.
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 12:56 AM   #6513
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I'm surprised at how few trains run during the supposedly morning rush hour, only 8 trains between 7:30 and 11:00?!
Compare Guangzhou-Changsha:
7 trains during 7:xx
5 trains during 8:xx
7 trains during 9:xx
7 trains during 10:xx
5 trains during 11:xx
7 trains during 12:xx
5 trains during 13:xx
5 trains during 14:xx
5 trains during 15:xx
4 trains during 16:xx
5 trains during 17:xx
4 trains during 18:xx
2 trains during 19:xx
1 train at 20:25
1 train at 21:00
total 70 trains
Out of the morning rush hour 7 trains between 7:00 and 7:53, 4 arrive at Changsha 9:40 to 9:56, 2 at 10:06 and 10:34 and 1 at 12:11. Out of these 4, just 2 continue to Wuhan - 1 terminates at Changsha, and 1 (G6132) for some reason terminates at Yueyang East!

So for some reason Changsha-Wuhan is not a popular trip to begin at Changsha - few trains originate at Changsha during convenient morning rush hour.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #6514
coth
pride leader
 
coth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Moscow
Posts: 21,674
Likes (Received): 6996

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


Can this line reach the capacity and frequency like Japan? I thought 57 seemed like a lot yet 147 is like wow-a lot.
Tokyo - Nagoya is just 342 km. Connects 35mln city with 8mln city, with at least two 1mln+ in between. That's why it has 3 min frequency in peak hour. And that's why they want to build a separate express line - Chuo Shinkansen.

Guangzhou - Wuhan is almost 1000 km. It would be more correct to compare Tokyo - Nagoya with Hong Kong - Guangzhou.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
coth no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 01:24 AM   #6515
xinxingren
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 269
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Which way shall Nanchang-Guiyang railway cross Guangzhou-Wuhan railway at Changsha? Specifically, which turns shall require reversal of trains, and which shall not?
Disclaimer: I haven't been on the ground to check, Google Earth is showing tracks from Nanchang and eastwards come thru Pinxiang and Liling and swing northwards, passing some 20km to the east of Zhuzhou, then doing a 180 degree curve to come into Changsha South station from the north, and on the east side of the Beijing-Guangzhou line (unless they jump thru a lot of points ). A train eg. Shanghai-Kunming would continue southwards thru Changsha then about 11km south of the station the line peels off the east side and curves out then westwards over the N-S line.

So any train needing to reverse would be Nanchang to the North, or Guiyang to the South.
xinxingren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 09:53 AM   #6516
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
Tokyo - Nagoya is just 342 km. Connects 35mln city with 8mln city, with at least two 1mln+ in between. That's why it has 3 min frequency in peak hour. And that's why they want to build a separate express line - Chuo Shinkansen.

Guangzhou - Wuhan is almost 1000 km. It would be more correct to compare Tokyo - Nagoya with Hong Kong - Guangzhou.
Hong Kong-Guangzhou is under 200 km. 184 km by slow speed railway and 142 km by high speed railway.

Shanghai-Nanjing is 295 km. Shanghai municipality alone is under 24 million people, but Shanghai plus the prefecture level city of Suzhou would be over 34 millions, on a similar area as the Tokyo capital and the three prefectures.

On Shanghai-Nanjing, two high speed railways already exist.
__________________

FM 2258, Highcliff liked this post
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #6517
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612



For Shanghai-Nanjing, is the conventional rail line still used for passenger rail? There are some older Youtube videos showing CRH1 and CRH2's running on the conventional line before the 350km/h lines were completed. I wonder if CRH trains still run on that conventional line if passenger rail service exists.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 07:36 PM   #6518
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


For Shanghai-Nanjing, is the conventional rail line still used for passenger rail?
Certainly.
I count:
3 Z trains
7 T trains
35 K trains
3 number trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
There are some older Youtube videos showing CRH1 and CRH2's running on the conventional line before the 350km/h lines were completed. I wonder if CRH trains still run on that conventional line if passenger rail service exists.
Not sure. There is a train number D306, that departs Shanghai at 22:00 and arrives in Nanjing at 00:31, and goes on via Zhengzhou to Xian North. Is it using the slow speed railway or a high speed railway between Shanghai and Nanjing?
__________________

FM 2258, Highcliff liked this post
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #6519
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Compare Guangzhou-Changsha:
7 trains during 7:xx
5 trains during 8:xx
7 trains during 9:xx
7 trains during 10:xx
5 trains during 11:xx
7 trains during 12:xx
5 trains during 13:xx
5 trains during 14:xx
5 trains during 15:xx
4 trains during 16:xx
5 trains during 17:xx
4 trains during 18:xx
2 trains during 19:xx
1 train at 20:25
1 train at 21:00
total 70 trains
Out of the morning rush hour 7 trains between 7:00 and 7:53, 4 arrive at Changsha 9:40 to 9:56, 2 at 10:06 and 10:34 and 1 at 12:11. Out of these 4, just 2 continue to Wuhan - 1 terminates at Changsha, and 1 (G6132) for some reason terminates at Yueyang East!

So for some reason Changsha-Wuhan is not a popular trip to begin at Changsha - few trains originate at Changsha during convenient morning rush hour.
I'm guessing that it might be faster for most people to drive for 2-3hours directly between Changsha-Wuhan, rather than take the train and change on either end.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #6520
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


For Shanghai-Nanjing, is the conventional rail line still used for passenger rail? There are some older Youtube videos showing CRH1 and CRH2's running on the conventional line before the 350km/h lines were completed. I wonder if CRH trains still run on that conventional line if passenger rail service exists.
I suspect that there are still a few passenger services left, but that it is mostly used for freight trains now.
__________________

FM 2258, Highcliff liked this post
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium