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Old September 25th, 2013, 10:48 PM   #6521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
Tokyo - Nagoya is just 342 km. Connects 35mln city with 8mln city, with at least two 1mln+ in between. That's why it has 3 min frequency in peak hour. And that's why they want to build a separate express line - Chuo Shinkansen.

Guangzhou - Wuhan is almost 1000 km. It would be more correct to compare Tokyo - Nagoya with Hong Kong - Guangzhou.
I actually see the Changsha-Guangzhou/HK section of the HSR as comparable to the Tokaido Shinkansen between Tokyo-Osaka, and therefore potentially being overloaded in the future.

The 700km Changsha-Guangzhou/HK section of the HSR covers a lot more people when you look at similar journey times.

Eg.

It will run from Hong Kong, through Shenzhen, Dongguan and Guangzhou at the southern end. There are in excess of 40million people within 30minutes of these stations via public transport. That is more than Greater Tokyo.

The journey time from Guangzhou-Changsha is 2h18minutes which is slightly faster than Tokyo-Osaka.

Changsha is a city with 7million people which is about the same as Osaka.

Then there are lots cities inbetween like:

Zhuzhou: 3million
Hengyang: 7million
Leiyang: 1million
Qingyuan: 3million
etc (10+ stations)

And the cities along these stations will grow larger and also richer because of the the presence of the HSR.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #6522
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Originally Posted by Restless View Post
I'm guessing that it might be faster for most people to drive for 2-3hours directly between Changsha-Wuhan, rather than take the train and change on either end.
It is 347 km. Compare the 342 km Tokyo-Nagoya and 339 km Taipei-Zuoying. Are private cars serious competitors of HSR on these routes?
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Old September 25th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #6523
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
It is 347 km. Compare the 342 km Tokyo-Nagoya and 339 km Taipei-Zuoying. Are private cars serious competitors of HSR on these routes?
Think about it.

A door-to-door journey is around 2h30min to 3hours by car.

A door-to-door train journey could take around the same time.

The HSR sweet spot generally starts at a 3-4hour car journey and stops at around 1000km where it is faster to take a plane.
But given the level of congestion in Chinese airspace, the distance is longer as we can see on the Beijing to Shanghai route where travellers are completely fed up with air delays.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #6524
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Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Think about it.

A door-to-door journey is around 2h30min to 3hours by car.
2:30 by car for 340 km?
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Old September 26th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #6525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
2:30 by car for 340 km?
They MUST ONLY drive those expensive German cars in that route ..... or they drive like a maniac. :-)
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Old September 26th, 2013, 07:17 AM   #6526
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Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Speedy Trains Transform China

CHANGSHA, China — The cavernous rail station here for China’s new high-speed trains was nearly deserted when it opened less than four years ago.

Not anymore. Practically every train is sold out, although they leave for cities all over the country every several minutes. Long lines snake back from ticket windows under the 50-foot ceiling of white, gently undulating steel that floats cloudlike over the departure hall. An ambitious construction program will soon nearly double the size of the 16-platform station.

Just five years after China’s high-speed rail system opened, it is carrying nearly twice as many passengers each month as the country’s domestic airline industry. With traffic growing 28 percent a year for the last several years, China’s high-speed rail network will handle more passengers by early next year than the 54 million people a month who board domestic flights in the United States.

continued
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/bu...ewanted=1&_r=0
What a huge shift in tone, rewind 5 years ago and this is the complete opposite of what most western media would say.
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Old September 26th, 2013, 07:25 AM   #6527
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For Shanghai-Nanjing, is the conventional rail line still used for passenger rail? There are some older Youtube videos showing CRH1 and CRH2's running on the conventional line before the 350km/h lines were completed. I wonder if CRH trains still run on that conventional line if passenger rail service exists.
There are three railway lines between Shanghai and Nanjing:

1) Traditional Jinghu Railway, used by CRH2 trains for overnight routes
2) Huning High-Speed Railway (opened 2010), used for trains, mainly to Hefei/Wuhan
3) Jinghu High-Speed Railway (opened 2011), used for trains, mainly to Beiing, Jinan, Qingdao
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Old September 26th, 2013, 10:49 AM   #6528
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Originally Posted by Restless View Post
I actually see the Changsha-Guangzhou/HK section of the HSR as comparable to the Tokaido Shinkansen between Tokyo-Osaka, and therefore potentially being overloaded in the future.
There are 170 million people in Guangdong and Hunan combined. But the route between Guangzhou and Changsha is not so urbanized as Tokaido corridor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
The 700km Changsha-Guangzhou/HK section of the HSR covers a lot more people when you look at similar journey times.
763 km Changsha to Kowloon West.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Eg.

It will run from Hong Kong, through Shenzhen, Dongguan and Guangzhou at the southern end. There are in excess of 40million people within 30minutes of these stations via public transport.
It runs through Dongguan, but not through Dongguan station. Its only station in Dongguan is Humen.
Which public transport serves Humen station? And how many people are within 30 minutes of Humen station?
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Originally Posted by Restless View Post
That is more than Greater Tokyo.
Yes, and Shinkansen has 5 stations in less than 60 km in Tokyo. Of which 3 are in an 11 km stretch.
Getting to destinations between these 3 is not a problem because that 11 km corridor is shared by 3 railways. On Tokaido side, Tokaido main line has the additional station of Shimbashi, and Yamanote has 3 more in these 6,8 km. On Tohoku side, Yamanote line has 3 stations in 3,6 km to Ueno, and Tohoku main line is followed by Shinkansen to Omiya, with 4 intermediate stations on 26,7 km.
There is a 47 km distance between Guangzhou North and Guangzhou South. Which other railways follow that HSR stretch, and how many stations do they have there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
The journey time from Guangzhou-Changsha is 2h18minutes which is slightly faster than Tokyo-Osaka.
That 2:18 is nonstop. No nonstops exist on Tokyo-Osaka - all of them stop at Shinagawa, Shin-Yokohama, Nagoya and Kyoto. Trains Guangzhou-Changsha that do make 4 intermediate stops take at least 2:47.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Changsha is a city with 7million people which is about the same as Osaka.

Then there are lots cities inbetween like:

Zhuzhou: 3million
Hengyang: 7million
Leiyang: 1million
Qingyuan: 3million
etc (10+ stations)
Not 10+! Just 9:
Zhuzhou West
Hengshan West
Hengyang East
Leiyang West
Chenzhou West
Shaoguan
Yingde West
Qingyuan
Guangzhou West
Would be 10 if Lechang East were completed, but even then not 10+.
These 9 stations are in 5 prefecture level cities:
Zhuzhou
Hengyang
Chenzhou
Shaoguan
Qingyuan
Also, Leiyang, Yingde and Lechang are county level cities in prefecture level cities of Hengyang, Qingyuan and Shaoguan respectively.
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Originally Posted by Restless View Post
And the cities along these stations will grow larger and also richer because of the the presence of the HSR.
Not if Hengyang has 7 million people.
That is the population of the prefecture level city - on 15 279 square km of countryside it makes just 470 per square km.

Most of these 7 millions live far, far away from any of the 3 stations there.

Compare Tokaido/Sanyo Shinkansen.
Tokyo-Aioi is 621 km, like Guangzhou-Changsha.
Over that distance, I count 19 intermediate stations, compared to the 9 of Guangzhou-Changsha.
Out of these 21, 17 are shared with Tokaido/Sanyo main line. Anyone wishing to travel to a place between Shinkansen stations can get off at a nearby Shinkansen station and connect to a zairaisen station in the same station building.

Which stations of Guangzhou-Changsha high speed railway besides Guangzhou North are shared with slow speed railway?
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Old September 26th, 2013, 11:06 AM   #6529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
2:30 by car for 340 km?
Lots of people do that in the UK and in Germany.
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Old September 26th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #6530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
There are 170 million people in Guangdong and Hunan combined. But the route between Guangzhou and Changsha is not so urbanized as Tokaido corridor.

763 km Changsha to Kowloon West.

It runs through Dongguan, but not through Dongguan station. Its only station in Dongguan is Humen.
Which public transport serves Humen station? And how many people are within 30 minutes of Humen station?

Yes, and Shinkansen has 5 stations in less than 60 km in Tokyo. Of which 3 are in an 11 km stretch.
Getting to destinations between these 3 is not a problem because that 11 km corridor is shared by 3 railways. On Tokaido side, Tokaido main line has the additional station of Shimbashi, and Yamanote has 3 more in these 6,8 km. On Tohoku side, Yamanote line has 3 stations in 3,6 km to Ueno, and Tohoku main line is followed by Shinkansen to Omiya, with 4 intermediate stations on 26,7 km.
There is a 47 km distance between Guangzhou North and Guangzhou South. Which other railways follow that HSR stretch, and how many stations do they have there?

That 2:18 is nonstop. No nonstops exist on Tokyo-Osaka - all of them stop at Shinagawa, Shin-Yokohama, Nagoya and Kyoto. Trains Guangzhou-Changsha that do make 4 intermediate stops take at least 2:47.

Not 10+! Just 9:
Zhuzhou West
Hengshan West
Hengyang East
Leiyang West
Chenzhou West
Shaoguan
Yingde West
Qingyuan
Guangzhou West
Would be 10 if Lechang East were completed, but even then not 10+.
These 9 stations are in 5 prefecture level cities:
Zhuzhou
Hengyang
Chenzhou
Shaoguan
Qingyuan
Also, Leiyang, Yingde and Lechang are county level cities in prefecture level cities of Hengyang, Qingyuan and Shaoguan respectively.

Not if Hengyang has 7 million people.
That is the population of the prefecture level city - on 15 279 square km of countryside it makes just 470 per square km.

Most of these 7 millions live far, far away from any of the 3 stations there.

Compare Tokaido/Sanyo Shinkansen.
Tokyo-Aioi is 621 km, like Guangzhou-Changsha.
Over that distance, I count 19 intermediate stations, compared to the 9 of Guangzhou-Changsha.
Out of these 21, 17 are shared with Tokaido/Sanyo main line. Anyone wishing to travel to a place between Shinkansen stations can get off at a nearby Shinkansen station and connect to a zairaisen station in the same station building.

Which stations of Guangzhou-Changsha high speed railway besides Guangzhou North are shared with slow speed railway?
Remember that we're talking about whether the HSR will ever become overloaded, so we have to look to the future when the population has increased and also has become 95% urbanised.

Any developed city with 1million people will have transport connections - even if it is only local buses - which can cover the majority of the population within 30minutes.

And you're missing the point of the comparison. It's not really about distance, but the economic geography.

Tokyo has 35million people and is the primate city for all of Japan (127million).
It dominates the country from an economic, industrial, political, educational, media perspective.
Tokyo also fulfils the function of a regional centre for the Eastern half of the country, so there isn't very much from Tokyo to Aomori.

===

Now, Guangdong province + HK have a similar population to the island of Honshu, which is where Tokyo and Osaka are located.

And the Hong Kong to Guangzhou agglomeration has a similar population to Tokyo, and also dominate the rest of the area from an economic, industrial, political, educational, media perspective.

Now, this is where the difference starts.

Osaka lives in the shadow of Tokyo, because Japan is a centralised unitary state, so Tokyo makes the decisions for Osaka.
So Osaka functions as a regional centre for the Western half of the country, and only has some industries and institutions situated there.

In comparison, Changsha is the capitol for Hunan province with its 66million people. Note that the UK and France have a similar population as Hunan Province, but are not as densely populated. Osaka/Western Japan is somewhat smaller.
And Changsha is not just a regional centre like Osaka, but is already a primate city which is well on its way to creating more world-class centres of excellence in various fields like London/Paris.

So once Changsha and the province develop, I expect to see something similar to London and Paris with 8million+ people.
Changsha can also make all of its own political decisions and policies - unlike Osaka. Of course, this is subject to distant light-touch oversight from the Central Government in Beijing like all the other provinces in China.

===

So this is why I use the comparison of Tokyo-Osaka, because Changsha-Guangzhou/HK should end up busier once it develops.
This due to factors such as population, journey times, lower ticket prices and the need for individuals to travel between their respective centres of expertise.

===

As for journey times, I say they're comparable because if a train is already full, does it matter if a train makes a stop or not?

What matters is the overall journey time, how reliable the service is, and its frequency. I suspect that we'll only be looking at a maximum of a 10minute wait instead of 5minutes due to eventual service patterns.

===


As for passengers transferring to slow speed tracks, that doesn't apply to China because all the spare capacity on the slow tracks is needed to provide additional freight capacity.

Commuter services in Japan are generally loss-making like everywhere else in the world. But they run because they have spare capacity on the old line, and can cross-subsidise from profitable long-distance services.

Studies have also shown that buses are normally much cheaper, more flexible and actually have faster door-to-door journey times for most people.
And for longer commuter distances, it's better to build new subway-type lines rather than run commuter train services.

So this is what many Chinese cities will be developing in the future.
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Old September 26th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #6531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Remember that we're talking about whether the HSR will ever become overloaded, so we have to look to the future
And my point is that the HSR is overloaded already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
when the population has increased
Not expected to increase over 5% from the present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
and also has become 95% urbanised.
Just 52 or so % now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Any developed city with 1million people will have transport connections - even if it is only local buses - which can cover the majority of the population within 30minutes.
Not necessarily the case for a city of 8 millions. Yes, Humen is a town (not city) of 640 000 people over 178 square km, and neighbouring Changan (the most populous town) has 660 000 people over 98 square km. So that makes 1,3 millions over 276 square km. But how long would it take from Humen station to Guancheng district?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
And you're missing the point of the comparison. It's not really about distance, but the economic geography.

Tokyo has 35million people and is the primate city for all of Japan (127million).
It dominates the country from an economic, industrial, political, educational, media perspective.
Tokyo also fulfils the function of a regional centre for the Eastern half of the country, so there isn't very much from Tokyo to Aomori.

===

Now, Guangdong province + HK have a similar population to the island of Honshu, which is where Tokyo and Osaka are located.

And the Hong Kong to Guangzhou agglomeration has a similar population to Tokyo, and also dominate the rest of the area from an economic, industrial, political, educational, media perspective.

Now, this is where the difference starts.

Osaka lives in the shadow of Tokyo, because Japan is a centralised unitary state, so Tokyo makes the decisions for Osaka.
So Osaka functions as a regional centre for the Western half of the country, and only has some industries and institutions situated there.

In comparison, Changsha is the capitol for Hunan province with its 66million people. Note that the UK and France have a similar population as Hunan Province, but are not as densely populated. Osaka/Western Japan is somewhat smaller.
And Changsha is not just a regional centre like Osaka, but is already a primate city which is well on its way to creating more world-class centres of excellence in various fields like London/Paris.

So once Changsha and the province develop, I expect to see something similar to London and Paris with 8million+ people.
Changsha can also make all of its own political decisions and policies - unlike Osaka. Of course, this is subject to distant light-touch oversight from the Central Government in Beijing like all the other provinces in China.
In China, there are 3 major regional centres. Guangzhou, Shanghai and Beijing. The legal position is different - Beijing is capital, Shanghai is not a capital but is a municipality, Guangzhou is a legally ordinary provincial capital - but these 3 overshadow all other regional centres whether provincial capitals or municipality of Chongqing.
While Changsha is the legal capital of Hunan in contrast to Osaka that has no legal control over Kyoto or Hyogo prefecture, Hunan is a neighbour of Hubei. On HSR, Changsha-Wuhan is just 347 km, compared to the 621 km Guangzhou-Changsha. A comparable issue in Japan may be Nagoya: Nagoya-Osaka is 173 km by Shinkansen, compared to 342 km Tokyo-Nagoya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post

So this is why I use the comparison of Tokyo-Osaka, because Changsha-Guangzhou/HK should end up busier once it develops.
This due to factors such as population, journey times, lower ticket prices and the need for individuals to travel between their respective centres of expertise.

===

As for journey times, I say they're comparable because if a train is already full, does it matter if a train makes a stop or not?
I suspect it does. The passengers in the various suburbs of Tokyo and Osaka do not only have to find their way to Tokyo and Shin-Osaka stations: they have the option to go to Shinagawa, Shin-Yokohama or Kyoto stations and catch the train there. Or is it an useless option because the train is already full out of Tokyo and Shin-Osaka and has no space for more passengers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
What matters is the overall journey time, how reliable the service is, and its frequency. I suspect that we'll only be looking at a maximum of a 10minute wait instead of 5minutes due to eventual service patterns.
Look at the service patterns of Tokyo station.
There is a Nozomi every 10 minutes from 6:50 till 11:10, and then 15:30 to 21:20. Plus some extra Nozomis. On the off-peak period, 4 of the 6 hourly Nozomis still run - :00, :10, :30 and :50 - so wait grows to 20 minutes.
Still, the schedule is fairly easy to memorize.
Compare Guangzhou-Changsha. Yes, some are at sharp hours... 7:00, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00, 14:00, 15:00, 17:00, 19:00, 21:00. But there is no simple rule as to stopping patterns, nor as to when the intermediate trains depart. Expresses are 3 of the sharp hour trains - 8:00, 9:00 and 10:00 - and also 14:33 and 15:33. A total of 5 trains daily... all others begin from 2:33.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
And for longer commuter distances, it's better to build new subway-type lines rather than run commuter train services.
Is Guangzhou-Zhuhai a subway, a commuter rail or a high speed rail?
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Old September 26th, 2013, 07:45 PM   #6532
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Quote:
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Lots of people do that in the UK and in Germany.
Realistically that journey will take 3 and half hours, and even that's a stretch because you have to consider traffic, slow trucks, and one after another toll stations. It's hard to average close to 100km/h for the whole trip.
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Old September 26th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #6533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post

Is Guangzhou-Zhuhai a subway, a commuter rail or a high speed rail?
Last time I checked they were running CRH1 trains on this line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlreImlMR7E
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Old September 26th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #6534
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Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou high speed railway seems to have opened.

It is 101 km Nanchang to Fuzhou, and 446 km Fuzhou to Fuzhou.

The D trains seem to be:
D6501 Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 3:33 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D6503 Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 3:37 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D6521 Jiujiang-Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen, 5:50 total, 4:48 for 719 km Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen
D6523 Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen North, 4:23 for 688 km Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen North
D6505 Jiujiang-Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 4:41 total, 3:37 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D3262/D3263 Wuhan-Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 7:06 total, 3:35 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D3276/D3277 Wuhan-Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen, 7:51 total, 4:28 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen
D6525 Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen, 5:00 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen
D6507 Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 3:12 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D6509 Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 3:27 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D295/D298 Zhengzhou-Wuhan-Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 10:20 total, 3:33 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D3272/D3273 Wuhan-Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen, 7:55 total, 4:30 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen North
D3265 Wuhan-Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 6:24 total, 3:33 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou
D6511 Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, 3:31 for Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou

Total 9 trains Nanchang-Fuzhou-Fuzhou, best time 3:12, 5 trains Nanchang-Fuzhou-Xiamen, best time 4:23 to Xiamen North and 4:48 to Xiamen.
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Old September 26th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #6535
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Yes, thanks for posting. Here is a picture from Xinhuanet.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2013..._125451148.htm
I am not sure it is a highspeed line in strict sense since the
max speed is 200km/h and freight trains also run on it. But according to
the schedule the average speed is around 170-180km/h, which is quite good for mountainous region.
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Old September 26th, 2013, 11:01 PM   #6536
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The original question was whether the HSR would be overloaded at some point in the future.

They can always build more platforms and put more trains on, but the limit is set by the physics of running a trains on a dual-track 300km/h+ railway.
The tokaido shinkansen has demonstrated the practical limit is around 150 train services per day.

I compare HK/GZ to Tokyo and Changsha to Osaka, because the populations are close enough, and journey times are similar because of faster trains in China.

Now, I find it very hard that you can't contemplate the possibility that Hunan will become wealthy and developed, and for Changsha to develop local transportation networks for an urban population of 8million+.

Changsha's population of 7million is already at $14242 per capita, which is which compares well with Beijing and Shanghai. And note that Hunan province is growing a lot faster than Guangdong because the overall province is a lot poorer, and has only recently been connected to the coast by expressway and convenient passenger rail.

Being next to the coast is a major reason why Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou are wealthy, because seaborne freight means they can trade with every other port in the world at rock-bottom rates.

And remember the whole idea of all those expressways, high-speed railways and airports was to spur the interior regions to develop by connecting them to coastal ports and areas.

A good example is seen in the development history of the USA which also once had a huge and undeveloped interior.

I would expect Changsha to continue growing and getting richer, because it is the capitol of a region with 65million people in total. You only have to look at Europe to see how big the capitol city can grow, based on a similar country population and land area.

Then we have Wuhan City and Hubei province, which is very similar in terms of capitol city size and provincial population. The same dynamics apply to its development, and it also a generates a significant passenger flow to Guangzhou.

So that is the big picture - which certainly leaves enough room for the Changsha section of the HSR to become overloaded in 15+ years time.

Everything else is nitpicking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
And my point is that the HSR is overloaded already.

Not expected to increase over 5% from the present.

Just 52 or so % now.

Not necessarily the case for a city of 8 millions. Yes, Humen is a town (not city) of 640 000 people over 178 square km, and neighbouring Changan (the most populous town) has 660 000 people over 98 square km. So that makes 1,3 millions over 276 square km. But how long would it take from Humen station to Guancheng district?

In China, there are 3 major regional centres. Guangzhou, Shanghai and Beijing. The legal position is different - Beijing is capital, Shanghai is not a capital but is a municipality, Guangzhou is a legally ordinary provincial capital - but these 3 overshadow all other regional centres whether provincial capitals or municipality of Chongqing.
While Changsha is the legal capital of Hunan in contrast to Osaka that has no legal control over Kyoto or Hyogo prefecture, Hunan is a neighbour of Hubei. On HSR, Changsha-Wuhan is just 347 km, compared to the 621 km Guangzhou-Changsha. A comparable issue in Japan may be Nagoya: Nagoya-Osaka is 173 km by Shinkansen, compared to 342 km Tokyo-Nagoya.

I suspect it does. The passengers in the various suburbs of Tokyo and Osaka do not only have to find their way to Tokyo and Shin-Osaka stations: they have the option to go to Shinagawa, Shin-Yokohama or Kyoto stations and catch the train there. Or is it an useless option because the train is already full out of Tokyo and Shin-Osaka and has no space for more passengers?

Look at the service patterns of Tokyo station.
There is a Nozomi every 10 minutes from 6:50 till 11:10, and then 15:30 to 21:20. Plus some extra Nozomis. On the off-peak period, 4 of the 6 hourly Nozomis still run - :00, :10, :30 and :50 - so wait grows to 20 minutes.
Still, the schedule is fairly easy to memorize.
Compare Guangzhou-Changsha. Yes, some are at sharp hours... 7:00, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00, 14:00, 15:00, 17:00, 19:00, 21:00. But there is no simple rule as to stopping patterns, nor as to when the intermediate trains depart. Expresses are 3 of the sharp hour trains - 8:00, 9:00 and 10:00 - and also 14:33 and 15:33. A total of 5 trains daily... all others begin from 2:33.


Is Guangzhou-Zhuhai a subway, a commuter rail or a high speed rail?
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Old September 26th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #6537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Realistically that journey will take 3 and half hours, and even that's a stretch because you have to consider traffic, slow trucks, and one after another toll stations. It's hard to average close to 100km/h for the whole trip.
Fair enough.

So that would push more passengers from their cars to the railway.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #6538
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Test trains will be sent to Shenzhen North Station on 30th of September during night time. Xiamen-Shenzhen Line will start the 'trains on track test' from 1st of October.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 12:37 AM   #6539
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Hm... what are the other major lines approaching opening now? Tianjin-Qinhuangdao, Guangzhou-Wuzhou-Nanning, Nanning-Hengyang, Nanning-Beihai?
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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:25 AM   #6540
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Another question, are the D trains currently running Hangzhou Shangrao Nanchang on standard track? They seem to manage 120km/hr ...
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