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Old October 1st, 2013, 08:44 PM   #6601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
You're confusing supporting your point for confirmation bias.

I am aware of the multitude of positive articles avaiable out there.
I am not trying to be ironic etc. but can you share some of them, I would like to read them especially if they are from more known media outlets. Most of the time (almost always) I end up reading some ill informed reporter bashing high speed rail.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 08:57 PM   #6602
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Well, most of the USA just doesn't have the population density and population clusters for HSR to make sense.

I think there are some corridors that do, but there's still that huge bias that anything done by the government is automatically a bad thing.
I think HSR will work perfectly here in Texas. Link Austin, Dallas, Houston and San Antonio at least to get started. Then again you said "most" I can see your point.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 09:50 PM   #6603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Back to topic then:
It is 1st. (October)
How is the progress of tests? (Xiamen-Shenzhen)
You asking for test results on a Holiday week?
Better go read the irresponsible tabloids everybody else is nagging about
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:04 PM   #6604
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Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Remember that the key thing is the overall cost-benefit ratio of a project, and benefits are more than just whether it is profitable.

After all, it is the government funding the project, and the government that is accruing all the benefits.

It be would be nice if it could be done with private money, but the purely financial benefits over the 30year lifecycle aren't enough to justify the hude financial risk as it would sink any private investor.

Yeah, the thing is that many journalists just don't even realise the biases that they have. I actually worked at BBC for a while lol
Considering railroads are a natural monopoly and result in higher overall productivity, it's something that should be undertaken by government. Akin to public education, or public medicine, the highway system, or pensions.

Go back to the past, and you'd see VERY SIMILAR development patterns in other areas of the world. The HSR-bashers in the media are either willfully ignorant, or flat-out incompetent.

Many of the "intellectual" criticisms stem from Austrian economic theory. Sadly Austrian economic theory doesn't comport with empirical evidence. Could the US have developed without its railways and interstates? Could London, Paris, et al. function properly without its expensive investment in public transit?
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:08 PM   #6605
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I think HSR will work perfectly here in Texas. Link Austin, Dallas, Houston and San Antonio at least to get started. Then again you said "most" I can see your point.
LOLZ. I hate I-45. You can enjoy the traffic between various large cities, or you can check the flight schedules between said cities. It's another reason to question the motivation of the HSR-haters. Building HSR between Duluth and North Dakota doesn't make sense, yet these potentially inefficient projects are seen as an inevitability.

Now that the HSR in China is grudgingly acknowledged to make sense, the anti-investment crowd has to find new reasons to bolster their argument.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:10 PM   #6606
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Are there any forummers able to summarise French, German or Japanese commentary on the subject then?
The latter would be likely to have nationalistic bias, but I'm sure French and German commentators who are used to dealing with arguments over their own nations' HSR systems would have more insight than most commentators from the US.
In the UK, the proposed HS2 project gets compared to the Chinese HSR build out all the time.

That comes from both the supporters and detractors of the project.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:42 PM   #6607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Back to topic then:
It is 1st.
How is the progress of tests?
The line has finished static acceptance and joint calibration and testing will commence sometime early October. There is no solid date so no one knows when exactly that will happen. I'd suppose there will be some delays due to the typhoons they experienced, especially the tragic loss of six workers when their dorm was destroyed during the storm.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 11:30 PM   #6608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
I am not trying to be ironic etc. but can you share some of them, I would like to read them especially if they are from more known media outlets. Most of the time (almost always) I end up reading some ill informed reporter bashing high speed rail.
Google News search: Chinese high speed rail

Then look at the top four most recent stories.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 12:16 AM   #6609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Google News search: Chinese high speed rail

Then look at the top four most recent stories.

Thanks but this wasn't helpful. You see only mentioned NYTimes blog post, some no name blogs then English Chinese newspaper sites, mostly hongkong based etc. Nothing else.

however, I liked this one (from an undergrad - he might be a member here ):

http://qz.com/116190/high-speed-rail...owth-strategy/

I read generally British outlets. BBC, Economist, Reuters etc. and some American ones such Atlantic, CNN, NYTimes.. I have yet to see smt positive about Chinese high speed rail (except the last months - which was the point of the first post).

Anyhow, not that important.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 12:26 AM   #6610
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That was the easiest and fastest example. There are clearly a dearth of positive stories about it.
I don't understand why this is being treated as some kind of propaganda war. I'm an avid reader of the economist and they provide a balanced view on HSR in China, as one would expect.

I don't understand what your point is nor am I going to continue this conversation any further.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 04:17 AM   #6611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post


That was the easiest and fastest example. There are clearly a dearth of positive stories about it.
Share some please, I seriously would like to read them.

Above example does not work so it is not an example.

When I look at even old posts here citing those sources I see nothing positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
I'm an avid reader of the economist and they provide a balanced view on HSR in China, as one would expect.
That says a lot. For your own good, do not trust economist as an objective source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
I don't understand what your point is nor am I going to continue this conversation any further.
Point is very clear, media is changing its tone because they cannot look at the usage of the trains and say "white elephants".
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 04:34 AM   #6612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Google News search: Chinese high speed rail

Then look at the top four most recent stories.
Is there a way to do the same for 2009, 2010, 2011?
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 07:00 AM   #6613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Is there a way to do the same for 2009, 2010, 2011?
you can search by date range. Search Tools -> Custom Range
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 11:08 AM   #6614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
You asking for test results on a Holiday week?
Well, I did notice with some surprise that the tests were scheduled on holiday, but I believed that news.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 10:30 PM   #6615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
Considering railroads are a natural monopoly and result in higher overall productivity, it's something that should be undertaken by government. Akin to public education, or public medicine, the highway system, or pensions.

Go back to the past, and you'd see VERY SIMILAR development patterns in other areas of the world. The HSR-bashers in the media are either willfully ignorant, or flat-out incompetent.

Many of the "intellectual" criticisms stem from Austrian economic theory. Sadly Austrian economic theory doesn't comport with empirical evidence.
You are wrong, but this forum isn't about economics. The West is melting down, crushed by debt, due to Keynesianism. Fact. Empirical evidence. Austrians are right, Keynesians are irresponsible children ruining The West as we speak and the MMT crowd are simply delusional and insane. Some debt is manageable, too much is not and Keynesians just keep spending until you get 30% UE (Greece) or unworkable "public healthcare" (USA).

"public medicine" is bankrupting all nations who use it, and going to accelerate the USA's dive to the bottom.

"pensions" are being stolen by governments to balance their budgets and pay for the "public medicine" and deficit spending.

That said, spending money ONE HAS, as the USA did on the Interstate and Railway systems, is very wise indeed. Going into crushing debt to build it, is not.

China has $3 Trillion Euros of national savings and another $5 Trillion Euros of personal household savings. China has the money.

Whilst they are issuing debt, China has the money to spend on projects like this and thus it is a good investment as it does not saddle current and future generations with crushing debt as in Greece, Italy, Spain, USA, Japan...

Thus the money China is spending on trains, money it earned, saved, and set aside to invest, will be well spent and will enable the economy to grow for decades to come. The point is that one must SACRIFICE EARN SAVE and SET ASIDE FIRST.

Keynesians would just issue debt, and spend.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 10:32 PM   #6616
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Despite how much I would love to respond to that, I'd rather debate in the correct setting. Please keep this thread to topic. Final warning to everyone. If you want to discuss economics there is the "In The News" section for that.
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Old October 7th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #6617
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image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
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Old October 7th, 2013, 01:16 PM   #6618
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The pictures following are collected from internet, thanks for the author

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


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Old October 10th, 2013, 08:53 AM   #6619
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Hogqiao railway station, Shanghai.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690583/

Hongqiao railway station is located right beyond the Outer ring road next to the Hongqiao international airport. As I can see, the station accomodates only high-speed rail trains.


One of the "Harmony" trains. All the HSR trains carry this name. I am especially fond of the way they say "Welcome aboard Harmony" very sweet and sexy.

Japanese-based trains are getting less and less numerous in China, at least it feels that way. This one can reach 350 km/h.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690584/

A "slow" Bombardier train (max 250 km/h):


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690585/


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690586/

Finally our train to Hangzhou arrives, a Siemens Velaro or CRH-3, if I am right. These trains are now the majority in all parts of China. EMUs may come in 18 or even more cars


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690588/

Short movie:




http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690590/


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690591/

6 .07. 2013.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #6620
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China's high speed rail system is so impressive. Large network, great speeds, beautiful stations and a good variety of train types and I like the uniform color of the CRH brand. On top of that they've decided to put the China Railways logo on all CRH trains. The CRH3 is still my favorite type followed by the CRH5. Great pictures!
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