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Old February 25th, 2014, 02:54 PM   #7481
chornedsnorkack
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Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
It is a purely 350km/h line,the operating speed i think may be 350km/h,these areas are not so cold comparing to Harbin.
Yes, but in this winter (and the previous one) Harbin-Dalian high speed railway is slowed down to 200 km/h all the way to Dalian. Shenyang-Dalian is not as cold as Harbin, yet it is 200 km/h.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 03:16 PM   #7482
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yes, but in this winter (and the previous one) Harbin-Dalian high speed railway is slowed down to 200 km/h all the way to Dalian. Shenyang-Dalian is not as cold as Harbin, yet it is 200 km/h.
Indeed running above 300km/h is not a technical problem but a politcal problem,this is a ridiculous side of Chinese politics.
Shengguangzhu is a complete conservative,the only thing he could do is to slow down speed,making sure he could retire safely this March,I hope the new leader could be a progressive.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 06:23 PM   #7483
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It will be really nice when the CRH380 starts regularly running at 380km/h.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 06:28 PM   #7484
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It will be really nice when the CRH380 starts regularly running at 380km/h.
China has one 380 km/h line which is Jinghu line (although it probably wouldn't be a problem to adjust most other 350km/h lines to 380km/h or even 400km/h standard) but was it ever intended to run at sustained 380km/h speeds with current rolling stock? If I remember correctly it was mentioned somewhere (can't remember where) that Beijing-Shanghai line would accommodate trains running at sustained 350km/h speeds and peak speeds of 380km/h which implies that 380km/h would only be achieved occasionally and only for limited periods of time (perhaps in cases when it has to catch up with timetable or something similar).
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Old February 25th, 2014, 07:42 PM   #7485
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China has one 380 km/h line which is Jinghu line (although it probably wouldn't be a problem to adjust most other 350km/h lines to 380km/h or even 400km/h standard) but was it ever intended to run at sustained 380km/h speeds with current rolling stock? If I remember correctly it was mentioned somewhere (can't remember where) that Beijing-Shanghai line would accommodate trains running at sustained 350km/h speeds and peak speeds of 380km/h which implies that 380km/h would only be achieved occasionally and only for limited periods of time (perhaps in cases when it has to catch up with timetable or something similar).
Beijing-Shanghai is special that its minimum turn radius is actually not 7,000 meters but 10,000. So it is possible that trains can run 380km/h for almost the whole trip. I would assume the average will be close to 370km/h if they were running with max 380km/h.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 07:48 PM   #7486
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Beijing-Shanghai is special that its minimum turn radius is actually not 7,000 meters but 10,000. So it is possible that trains can run 380km/h for almost the whole trip. I would assume the average will be close to 370km/h if they were running with max 380km/h.
I think it's not really the infrastructure but the trainsets which matter in this case. Can current CRH380 trainsets run at sustained 380km/h speed in regular service (which means on a daily basis) on a 1000+km distance without unacceptable levels of wear and tear?
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Old February 25th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #7487
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With 380 maximum you won't get 370 average. Even without stops. Average was supposed to be 330 with few stops, afair.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 08:03 PM   #7488
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the problem now is that the arrengement of the timetable.for example,you can run 1000 in 3 hours and 15mins,they will write 3.5 hours in timetable,when there is a delay at some stop,they will drive a little faster to get the destination on time.so you will see the speed is usually 290~300km/h,when they delay,they will drive at 310km/h.

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Old February 25th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #7489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
China has one 380 km/h line which is Jinghu line (although it probably wouldn't be a problem to adjust most other 350km/h lines to 380km/h or even 400km/h standard) but was it ever intended to run at sustained 380km/h speeds with current rolling stock? If I remember correctly it was mentioned somewhere (can't remember where) that Beijing-Shanghai line would accommodate trains running at sustained 350km/h speeds and peak speeds of 380km/h which implies that 380km/h would only be achieved occasionally and only for limited periods of time (perhaps in cases when it has to catch up with timetable or something similar).
Like all lines the maximum operating speed doesn't equal to sustained speed, different sections have different speed limits, however they should be running fairly close to that speed. Before 2011 when I was on Nanjing-Shanghai ICL for most part the train runs between 330 and 350km/h, the fastest I've observed was something like 362km/h. Now it runs mostly between 290 and 300km/h. For Beijing-Shanghai HSR the designed average speed for a non stop train is 329km/h so I'd imagine for most of the journey the train was supposedly traveling at speed above 350km/h.

Here is like to Yaohua's blog which has speed profile of his trip, as you can see the speed is consistently above 310km/h.
http://www.yaohua2000.org/2011/20110630/en.html
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Old February 26th, 2014, 12:51 AM   #7490
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With 380 maximum you won't get 370 average. Even without stops. Average was supposed to be 330 with few stops, afair.
330km/h average with one stop and with max speed 350km/h. So it is not far-fetched to think average will be close to 380km/h if the max were 380km/h.

Also it is well documented that Chinese railways with 350km/h standard are able to support that speed for the whole length.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 01:49 AM   #7491
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330km/h average with one stop and with max speed 350km/h. So it is not far-fetched to think average will be close to 380km/h if the max were 380km/h.
No, 330 km/h average was at max speed 380 km/h.
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Also it is well documented that Chinese railways with 350km/h standard are able to support that speed for the whole length.
Look at the examples:
Wuhan-Guangzhou North nonstop - 922 km in 2:57, making 313 km/h
Wuhan-Guangzhou South nonstop - 969 km in 3:08, making 309 km/h
Wuhan-Guangzhou South with 1 stop at Changsha - 969 km in 3:16, making 297 km/h.

So 330 km/h average at 380 km/h maximum makes sense.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 04:14 AM   #7492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No, 330 km/h average was at max speed 380 km/h.


Look at the examples:
Wuhan-Guangzhou North nonstop - 922 km in 2:57, making 313 km/h
Wuhan-Guangzhou South nonstop - 969 km in 3:08, making 309 km/h
Wuhan-Guangzhou South with 1 stop at Changsha - 969 km in 3:16, making 297 km/h.

So 330 km/h average at 380 km/h maximum makes sense.
Yaohua's blog speed plot explains the situation:



Average speed was around 310km/h because trains were running with 310km/h almost all the time. So, they were not running 350km/h somewhere and 250km/h in other stretches to have average 310km/h. In other words, the whole length of the line support the full speed they wanted to go.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:41 AM   #7493
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no meaning ,just a picture
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:42 AM   #7494
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Judging from that speed profile average speed is certainly not 310km/h. Perhaps around 275-280km/h. This is matching with known fastest average speeds between Beijing and Shanghai or Beijing and Guangzhou where fastest services do something in the range of 265-280km/h average.

At 350km/h max for longer distances with few stops it's realistic to achieve 310-320km/h average. With 380km/h max it could be up to 340-350km/h average at the most. It's virtually impossible to achieve 370km/h average with 380km/h max or 340km/h with 350km/h respectively.

Last edited by Pansori; February 26th, 2014 at 10:48 AM.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:58 AM   #7495
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Judging from that speed profile average speed is certainly not 310km/h. Perhaps around 275-280km/h. This is matching with known fastest average speeds between Beijing and Shanghai or Beijing and Guangzhou where fastest services do something in the range of 265-280km/h average.

At 350km/h max for longer distances with few stops it's realistic to achieve 310-320km/h average. With 380km/h max it could be up to 340-350km/h average at the most. It's virtually impossible to achieve 370km/h average with 380km/h max or 340km/h with 350km/h respectively.
YEP ,in 2009 when the high speed train from Guangzhou to Wuhan running at 350km/H, the avrage speed of the train with no stop is 341km/h.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:59 AM   #7496
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Old February 26th, 2014, 11:19 AM   #7497
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YEP ,in 2009 when the high speed train from Guangzhou to Wuhan running at 350km/H, the avrage speed of the train with no stop is 341km/h.
What do you claim the time and distance were?
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Old February 26th, 2014, 11:31 AM   #7498
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YEP ,in 2009 when the high speed train from Guangzhou to Wuhan running at 350km/H, the average speed of the train with no stop is 341km/h.
I remember I checked it with official schedules and distances back in 2011 (just before slowdown) and the fastest between Wuhan and Guangzhou I could find was around or below 320km/h average. Do you have the schedules of G trains between Wuhan and Guangzhou from 2011 that would confirm 341km/h average speed?

Edit: Wikipedia claims it was 313km/h average with non stop service. That sounds realistic.

Last edited by Pansori; February 26th, 2014 at 11:39 AM.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 11:51 AM   #7499
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I remember I checked it with official schedules and distances back in 2011 (just before slowdown) and the fastest between Wuhan and Guangzhou I could find was around or below 320km/h average. Do you have the schedules of G trains between Wuhan and Guangzhou from 2011 that would confirm 341km/h average speed?

Edit: Wikipedia claims it was 313km/h average with non stop service. That sounds realistic.
I can find the source for 341 km/h average. 1069 km in 3:08...
but that 1069 km is the real length of the slow speed railway, not the high speed one.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 11:53 AM   #7500
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I can find the source for 341 km/h average. 1069 km in 3:08...
but that 1069 km is the real length of the slow speed railway, not the high speed one.
That's right. Distances given along with schedules are wrong. I use distances given in Wikipedia which seem to be actual distances of the new railway.

The distance between Wuhan and Guangzhou south is 968km and Guangzhou North is 922km.
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