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Old March 1st, 2014, 08:03 PM   #7541
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That fifth picture in your second to last post--the water looks almost iridescent. It's my new desktop background .
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Old March 1st, 2014, 08:28 PM   #7542
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Favorite one... Great pictures. Some of them are reposts, I guess, but still, I didn't see many of them.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 09:43 PM   #7543
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Old March 1st, 2014, 11:54 PM   #7544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
This train zefiro 380 is bombardier name,and CRH380D is Chinese name.more like the relationship of Velro and CRH3C,they are the same in main parameter,the differents are colour,inside decoration and the signal system on the train.CRH380D has a order of 80 trainsets,20 8cars CRH380D and 60 16cars CRH380DL,BUT because the unforeseen event happpened in China railway,and some other reasons such as the bombardier refused the Technology Transfer,the low production efficiency of bombardier,and this train is so expensive campared to the others,so the orders had been cancelled and CRH1 series replace some of the orders.
bombardier is famous for its espensive product,the price of the bullet train is nearly double compared to JP ones.
Last years CSR finished an order of 91 trains in 45 days,BUT the bombardier has not finished the orders of last year.
Who is making CRH380D/DL? And why are they more expensive? How much other CRH380 models cost? And finally if it's so expensive why even buy it? What's wrong with cheaper CRH380s?

Last edited by Pansori; March 1st, 2014 at 11:59 PM.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 11:59 PM   #7545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
This train zefiro 380 is bombardier name,and CRH380D is Chinese name.more like the relationship of Velro and CRH3C,they are the same in main parameter,the differents are colour,inside decoration and the signal system on the train.CRH380D has a order of 80 trainsets,20 8cars CRH380D and 60 16cars CRH380DL,BUT because the unforeseen event happpened in China railway,and some other reasons such as the bombardier refused the Technology Transfer,the low production efficiency of bombardier,and this train is so expensive campared to the others,so the orders had been cancelled and CRH1 series replace some of the orders.
bombardier is famous for its espensive product,the price of the bullet train is nearly double compared to JP ones.
Last years CSR finished an order of 91 trains in 45 days,BUT the bombardier has not finished the orders of last year.
Thanks. That explains a lot!
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:10 AM   #7546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Who is making CRH380D/DL? And why are they more expensive? How much other CRH380 models cost? And finally if it's so expensive why even buy it? What's wrong with cheaper CRH380s?
Short answer: You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket...

I think, China basically wanted to get as much technology as it can acquire and more importantly it is not a great idea to source from only one supplier especially if the market as big as China's. Competition should create better products for lower prices. So, for the long term multiple producers is better.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:11 AM   #7547
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Ongoing construction of the background bridge makes this picture quite unique.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:29 AM   #7548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Short answer: You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket...

I think, China basically wanted to get as much technology as it can acquire and more importantly it is not a great idea to source from only one supplier especially if the market as big as China's. Competition should create better products for lower prices. So, for the long term multiple producers is better.
To my understanding China has the technology and know-how of all its CRH380s. What about CRH380D? Are they being made in China? What is the status of it?
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 04:21 AM   #7549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
This train zefiro 380 is bombardier name,and CRH380D is Chinese name.more like the relationship of Velro and CRH3C,they are the same in main parameter,the differents are colour,inside decoration and the signal system on the train.CRH380D has a order of 80 trainsets,20 8cars CRH380D and 60 16cars CRH380DL,BUT because the unforeseen event happpened in China railway,and some other reasons such as the bombardier refused the Technology Transfer,the low production efficiency of bombardier,and this train is so expensive campared to the others,so the orders had been cancelled and CRH1 series replace some of the orders.
bombardier is famous for its espensive product,the price of the bullet train is nearly double compared to JP ones.
Last years CSR finished an order of 91 trains in 45 days,BUT the bombardier has not finished the orders of last year.
That's not correct, CRH380D is the product of Bombardier Sifang Transportation (BST), the company is the only joint venture HSR rolling stock manufacturer in China now. Bombardier agreed to share all technology knowhow and share development work on future models, so that it was able to retain this joint venture factory in China, unlike others (Kawasaki, Siemens, etc). For the CRH380D it's essentially a joint project, and the export version marketed by Bombardier is the Zefiro 380.

CRH380D orders were never cancelled. The original order of 20 CRH380D and 60 CRH380DL were converted to 70 CRH380D. The price of the original contract was RMB 24.7 billion, the price for the new contract is unknown. As we have seen from pictures in the trainset thread delivery has already started, right now two trainsets are being tested by Guangzhou Railway Bureau.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 07:27 AM   #7550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
That's not correct, CRH380D is the product of Bombardier Sifang Transportation (BST), the company is the only joint venture HSR rolling stock manufacturer in China now. Bombardier agreed to share all technology knowhow and share development work on future models, so that it was able to retain this joint venture factory in China, unlike others (Kawasaki, Siemens, etc). For the CRH380D it's essentially a joint project, and the export version marketed by Bombardier is the Zefiro 380.

CRH380D orders were never cancelled. The original order of 20 CRH380D and 60 CRH380DL were converted to 70 CRH380D. The price of the original contract was RMB 24.7 billion, the price for the new contract is unknown. As we have seen from pictures in the trainset thread delivery has already started, right now two trainsets are being tested by Guangzhou Railway Bureau.
NOT YET ,CRH380D is totally a Germany product,though made in China.including CRH380D and CRH1,China did not get any technology from Bombardier.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 09:29 AM   #7551
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Hefei-Fuzhou HSR line Yangtze rive bridge Initially completed
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 10:20 AM   #7552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post

NOT YET ,CRH380D is totally a Germany product,though made in China.
Are you sure about that?
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 11:33 AM   #7553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
NOT YET ,CRH380D is totally a Germany product,though made in China.including CRH380D and CRH1,China did not get any technology from Bombardier.
There is a difference between intellectual property and technology, there is no question that Bombardier designed the Zefiro 380 / CRH380D and thus holds the intellectual property of the trainset. However the technology for the train has been fully transferred to BST, so although you can say it's not transferred to China because BST is still 50% owned by Bombardier, in reality through BST CSR has gained technologies of the train.

According to BST's website regarding its R&D effort
Quote:
The foreign joint partner of BST is Bombardier, which is famous for its leading position in international railway transportation industry, covering from its new concepts to its leading technologies. BST grasps such new technologies through the Technology Transfer process carried out by Bombardier. BST Engineering has delivered/designed satisfying products by ongoing receiving, learning, understanding of the technology transfer and making innovation considering specific needs. BST company has acquired technology of Carbon steel, stainless steel and Aluminum-Alloy carbodies’ manufacturing and that of 160 km/h high grade cars, 200 km/h EMUs, 250 km/h EMUs and 350 km/h very high speed trains upon the company’s establishment. Further on, BST will gain more technologies such as Metro vehicle and other types of trainsets to meet requirements from both domestic and international.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 02:21 PM   #7554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
There is a difference between intellectual property and technology, there is no question that Bombardier designed the Zefiro 380 / CRH380D and thus holds the intellectual property of the trainset. However the technology for the train has been fully transferred to BST, so although you can say it's not transferred to China because BST is still 50% owned by Bombardier, in reality through BST CSR has gained technologies of the train.

According to BST's website regarding its R&D effort
China did not get any technology from Bombardier,not like Siemens and Kawasaki.BST is only responsible for production,like the car factory in China.CSR have 50% of the BST,but none of the technology.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 06:50 PM   #7555
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Quote:
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To my understanding China has the technology and know-how of all its CRH380s. What about CRH380D? Are they being made in China? What is the status of it?
China has the whole IP and tech for 380A.

For 380B, has the tech, not sure about the IP.

For 380C, has the tech and the whole IP.

For 380D, not sure... It is a joint venture so, it should have some IP and tech but who knows. We need to see the details of the deal.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 08:34 PM   #7556
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Quote:
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What bridge is that under construction in the background? Glad to see a new suspension bridge under construction, seems like everyone is doing cable stay these days and that's getting old.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 11:39 PM   #7557
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If I am not mistaken, this should be the 4th Yangtze river crossing bridge at Wuhan in the background.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 02:21 AM   #7558
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Quote:
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If I am not mistaken, this should be the 4th Yangtze river crossing bridge at Wuhan in the background.

Thanks! Doing a Google search it looks like the Yingwuzhou Bridge in Wuhan under construction. Should be completed this year. ws

http://highestbridges.com/wiki/image...romRailway.jpg
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 08:08 AM   #7559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
China did not get any technology from Bombardier,not like Siemens and Kawasaki.BST is only responsible for production,like the car factory in China.CSR have 50% of the BST,but none of the technology.
Well BST's website says it did in my quote above, so if you are so sure maybe you should contact them to correct their mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
For 380D, not sure... It is a joint venture so, it should have some IP and tech but who knows. We need to see the details of the deal.
I'm fairly certain Bombardier retained all the IP on the D.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 12:08 PM   #7560
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Lots of lines coming active this year and next, look for nearly constant updates from all over China for the next 2 years.

Quote:
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No, 330 km/h average was at max speed 380 km/h.

Wuhan-Guangzhou South with 1 stop at Changsha - 969 km in 3:16, making 297 km/h.
This is the train I took 3 years ago before the slowdowns. It made multiple stops and had a top speed of 350-365kms/hour depending on the section of track.

3 h 14 min, avg speed just under 300kms/hour.

As some German Engineers told me:
"380kms/hour is just too fast".
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