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Old March 4th, 2014, 07:00 PM   #7581
hmmwv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Could they not just run D trains but slow down in that section of track?

I have been on G trains to ZhengZhou that were at 80km/hour for short sections.

I would not mind many D trains schedule there that had to slow for a stretch.
Absolutely, as the old Shanghai-Chengdu D train ran on the old traditional railway the speed is even less than what it is today. But I guess CRC is trying to avoid complaints about it running D trains at T/K train speed (even for limited time) whiling charging D train ticket price.

My wish has always being that once the original operating speeds are restored the Shanghai-Chengdu D trains will be reinstated, and as a overnight sleeper train, that'll be a journey I'll definitely take.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 07:20 AM   #7582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
That would be a sick good news if it gets restored.
It actually makes sense.

They wanted 350, started out with that but realised they did not have the accumulated maintenance experience to do that.

Move forward 3 years and much more CRH all over China and a near-doubling of 270km/h+ laid track in the next year or so.

Now they have much more experience with 300, and can adjust maintenance as they work up the learning curve.

It's not as though anyone else has 6,000+km of HSR for them to learn from...

I agree, it would be all kinds of awesome and the 250 would bump to 300 or more.

It also likely means they are nearing capacity and will be increasing the number of trains.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:22 AM   #7583
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agree. if they still have concerns they could do it in steps, i.e. move speed from 300kmph -> 320 -> 350
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Old March 5th, 2014, 09:41 AM   #7584
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I think I have probably missed something.
- Several HS lines were built for 350-380 km/h, and trains, too, are able to run on this speed.
- Due to economical reasons the ministry of railways decreased operational speed to 300 km/h.
- Nowadays you all talk in this thread about re-inncreasing operational speed. What is teh reason for that? What has happened? Did the minister say something about increasing speed, or was there some publication about it?
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Old March 5th, 2014, 10:19 AM   #7585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
My wish has always being that once the original operating speeds are restored the Shanghai-Chengdu D trains will be reinstated, and as a overnight sleeper train, that'll be a journey I'll definitely take.
Do you mean arranging high speed line maintenance so that the lines could be used at night, like slow speed lines are?
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Old March 5th, 2014, 11:10 AM   #7586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
I think I have probably missed something.
- Several HS lines were built for 350-380 km/h, and trains, too, are able to run on this speed.
- Due to economical reasons the ministry of railways decreased operational speed to 300 km/h.
- Nowadays you all talk in this thread about re-inncreasing operational speed. What is teh reason for that? What has happened? Did the minister say something about increasing speed, or was there some publication about it?
the reasons for the conservative speeds are economic, political and safety ones.

further down on the page you have an uncorroborated lead that there are proposals within the government to raise the speed again.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 01:37 PM   #7587
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Could it be that the speed increase would come along with new (more flexible) ticketing system?
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Old March 5th, 2014, 02:31 PM   #7588
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Higher speed means more energy consumption, which results in higher costs. Railway tickets in China are subsidized as it is. Frankly it is quite cheap. I doubt that any HSR in the world costs less per mile, with all the infrastructure around.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 03:19 PM   #7589
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Not to mention more regular and stricter maintenance programs, as well as wear and tear of the rolling stock
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Old March 5th, 2014, 03:25 PM   #7590
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Why the wires of China HSR are far more complex than other countries?
as the pictures post,the first is Changsha-Hangzhou line,the second is turkey ones,the last is spain.
image hosted on flickr

[IMG]http://oi62.************/mkb3uv.jpg[/IMG]
image hosted on flickr
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Old March 5th, 2014, 04:06 PM   #7591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
Why the wires of China HSR are far more complex than other countries?
as the pictures post,the first is Changsha-Hangzhou line,the second is turkey ones,the last is spain.
image hosted on flickr

[IMG]http://oi62.************/mkb3uv.jpg[/IMG]
image hosted on flickr
In your China picture, just by coincidence, it is just after an intersection so there are wires for four lines not for two.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 05:05 PM   #7592
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I noticed that too, gotta split(extend) wires for the switch.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 06:36 PM   #7593
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If you thought those were complex, look at Japan's, or Taiwan's. :P
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:19 PM   #7594
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Wire used in Turkey and Spain is outdated equipment. They need to speed much money to switch to the most advanced one. New tech one used in China has backup system to prevent an interruption caused by mother nature
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Old March 5th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #7595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Do you mean arranging high speed line maintenance so that the lines could be used at night, like slow speed lines are?
The particular long distance sleeper trains I mentioned are not that frequent, perhaps just two or three trains for the entire night, so scheduling will be very easy, afterall you are not going to have trains departing after 11:00 PM so a given section of railway will only have to budget at most 1 hour for all these trains to pass.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 11:38 PM   #7596
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
afterall you are not going to have trains departing after 11:00 PM so a given section of railway will only have to budget at most 1 hour for all these trains to pass.
You mean, wouldnīt have trains originating from 11:00 to some time in the morning?

Shanghai being at the tip of a peninsula might not have through trains at night, and that simplifies the matters for the sections Shanghai-Nanjing and Shanghai-Hangzhou. Not elsewhere.

For example the fastest train Shanghai-Chengdu now, Z122, does depart after 11:00: from Xiangyang East at 1:23, and from Ankang at 5:08. Who are catching the train there?

The other 5 are K trains. Night departures are for example on K1156:
23:16 Suizhou
0:58 Xiangyang East
3:41 Shiyan
on K696:
0:05 Zhongxiang
1:00 Jingmen
2:30 Yichang East
3:51 Badong
5:09 Enshi
5:56 Lichuan
on K351
23:02 Quzhou
0:17 Shangrao
1:39 Yingtan
3:26 Nanchang
23:25 Dazhou
0:41 Yingshan
1:29 Nanchong
2:30 Suining.

Can you explain the logic? Especially, why does K351 terminate at 4:30?
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Old March 6th, 2014, 02:38 AM   #7597
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I don't know the specifics of railway operations in China, but in general, night trains depart from origin points at "reasonable" times to match the needs of customers. However, due to the vagaries of geography, operational constraints, or the economic class of the typical passenger, some may depart later. Also, trains may be carrying the mail, or parcels, where schedules may take precedence over the human cargo. As for the early morning stops at mid point cities, these may be alighting points more than boarding points. Also, some late night/early morning trains are used as "last train" by revelers to get home after a night of celebration in the town centre.
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Old March 6th, 2014, 02:50 PM   #7598
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A summary of China HSR,totally 11028KM
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Old March 6th, 2014, 04:50 PM   #7599
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Lanzhou-Urumqi HSR,February 2014

The construction of Dabanshan tunnel,3000~4200m above sea level,Qinghai Province.
1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

From tj.xinhuanet.com
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Old March 6th, 2014, 08:19 PM   #7600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
You mean, wouldnīt have trains originating from 11:00 to some time in the morning?

Shanghai being at the tip of a peninsula might not have through trains at night, and that simplifies the matters for the sections Shanghai-Nanjing and Shanghai-Hangzhou. Not elsewhere.

For example the fastest train Shanghai-Chengdu now, Z122, does depart after 11:00: from Xiangyang East at 1:23, and from Ankang at 5:08. Who are catching the train there?

The other 5 are K trains. Night departures are for example on K1156:
23:16 Suizhou
0:58 Xiangyang East
3:41 Shiyan
on K696:
0:05 Zhongxiang
1:00 Jingmen
2:30 Yichang East
3:51 Badong
5:09 Enshi
5:56 Lichuan
on K351
23:02 Quzhou
0:17 Shangrao
1:39 Yingtan
3:26 Nanchang
23:25 Dazhou
0:41 Yingshan
1:29 Nanchong
2:30 Suining.

Can you explain the logic? Especially, why does K351 terminate at 4:30?
The train won't leave Shanghai or Chengdu later than 11:00 otherwise it has lost all the advantages of an overnight D train as it will arrive too late for the morning to be productive. The old D351/2 and D355/6 trains took close to 14 hours to travel the old line with 8 stops, I suppose a new D train traveling the new line will arrive in about 10-11 hours. The idea departure time would be somewhere between 9 and 10 PM. So let's say three trains depart in 30 min intervals (9:00, 9:30, 10:00)the last one will leave at 10 at the latest.

We all know that the 350km/h lines are the ones that require the most maintenance, so in this schedule by the time maintenance starts at midnight the trains will have already past that section (Shanghai-Nanjing). As for the rest of the way, since the first and last train are only one hour apart, at a given section along the way their maintenance group only need to schedule a one hour window for all three trains to pass. Also since the maintenance activity will not last through the morning, in reality you'll encounter maintenance activities only in about half of the journey. Most likely somewhere between Hefei and Yichang.
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