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Old March 28th, 2014, 12:40 AM   #7821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INGBN View Post
Hi folks,
I am having a project about the HSR in China, and I am looking for (official) statistics for the ridership, distance of both conventional and HSR tracks and passenger-kilometers of the Chinese railway for each year. I tried looking up on the ministry of transport website (using google translate though), to no avail.

Does anybody here know where to find some or all of the above figures? Or other official statistics like financial performance, environmental benefits, operational efficiency compared to conventional trains? I would deeply appreciate any help.
Official statistics can be found from the UIC below

http://www.uic.org/spip.php?rubrique1449

A World Bank paper on the overall effect of HSR is below

http://www-wds.worldbank.org/externa...l0Final0EN.pdf
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Old March 28th, 2014, 07:20 AM   #7822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
If I am not mistaken:

Train drivers do the same thing in Taiwan. It is based on Japanese security precautions, and the idea is that if a driver has to acknowledge signals in this way, there is less risk of the driver missing/ignoring a signal.
These Japanese procedures even made their way to the NYC subway:

http://new.mta.info/news/2013/11/12/...int-way-safety

NYC subway and China HSR agree - safer to point than not to point.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 08:14 AM   #7823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INGBN View Post
Hi folks,
I am having a project about the HSR in China, and I am looking for (official) statistics for the ridership, distance of both conventional and HSR tracks and passenger-kilometers of the Chinese railway for each year. I tried looking up on the ministry of transport website (using google translate though), to no avail.

Does anybody here know where to find some or all of the above figures? Or other official statistics like financial performance, environmental benefits, operational efficiency compared to conventional trains? I would deeply appreciate any help.
The official data for 2013 is on the web by the Chinese ministry of Railways

http://www.nra.gov.cn/zwzc/xwdt/xwlb...40305_5385.htm

Most of the passage is gibberish bragging about the network and how it benefits, but here's the gold:

2013年,全国铁路完成旅客发送量21.06亿人次,其中高铁线发送旅客5.3亿人次,比重超过25%

So 530 million rode the high speed rail, which is "more than 25%" of the total township of railways being 2.106 billion.

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Old March 28th, 2014, 12:10 PM   #7824
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Shanghai Spring







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Old March 28th, 2014, 12:21 PM   #7825
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China does not only have great railways but great photographers as well!
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Old March 29th, 2014, 05:44 PM   #7826
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Railway station :Loudi station,Loudi and Shaoyang are two cities that are very close in Hunan province,in 2008 -2011,to compete for a station,citizens,government officials of these two cities tried lots of ways,from Internet forum to drum up support from higher officials,finally Loudi wins.















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Old March 29th, 2014, 05:51 PM   #7827
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I don't understand. If the technology allows Loudi or Shaoyang, why would they choose Loudi. Shaoyang is a much more historical and famous city (Never heard of Loudi), the economy is much greater by GDP and it has more than twice the population of Loudi...

If only one can exist, couldn't they build one in between the two cities (Maybe closer to Shaoyang) to serve them both like how Beijing Intl Airport serves Tianjin and Langfang too?

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Old March 29th, 2014, 06:18 PM   #7828
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In 2009,citizens of Shaoyang step to the street,express their desire for Shanghai-Kunming HSR.



they said we need the Shanghai Kunming HSR,we need to survive
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Old March 29th, 2014, 06:30 PM   #7829
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Forgive my ugly characters,to go throug Loudi,the line will be more straight,Shaoyang has more people, but for GDP per capita,Loudi wins,so they want a HSR to improve the communication to other cities,this will be benefit for economy,to make up for the Shaoyang,MOR build a 200KM/H to connet to the Shanghai-Kunming HSR.
This is a typical Chinese politician.
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Old March 29th, 2014, 08:49 PM   #7830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post


Forgive my ugly characters,to go throug Loudi,the line will be more straight,Shaoyang has more people, but for GDP per capita,Loudi wins,so they want a HSR to improve the communication to other cities,this will be benefit for economy,to make up for the Shaoyang,MOR build a 200KM/H to connet to the Shanghai-Kunming HSR.
This is a typical Chinese politician.
Wow impressive! I see, maybe it'll make Loudi much more favourable for development and eventually grow the city. youre right, for a 350kmh line, keeping a good radius wins. Thanks.

I thought the Shanghai Kunming HSR is due 2014... well... apparently not if it's still planning.

Ps I've always been wondering why the Kunming HSR and Urumqi HSR has to be 350, they are surely going to lose money esp. the Urumqi one. Are they planning to connect them to other countries in the near future? Even if that's the case, I don't see how it's profitable given that people could get from Singapore to Shanghai and Moscow to Beijing by flight much much more faster.

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Old March 29th, 2014, 10:13 PM   #7831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
Look at this site! It is only one out of possibly more than hundred churning out high speed rail bridges in China.
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Old March 30th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #7832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augst6 View Post
I thought the Shanghai Kunming HSR is due 2014... well... apparently not if it's still planning.
No. As mentioned, it was planned back in 2008...2011. Then the plans were decided and the railway has been under construction on final route for years.
The whole line was due in 2014, but now it has been delayed. Especially the western part Changsha-Kunming, in mountains, is delayed and cannot open in 2014. The eastern section, Hangzhou-Changsha, is progressing better and is hoped to open later in 2014.
Quote:
Originally Posted by augst6 View Post
Ps I've always been wondering why the Kunming HSR and Urumqi HSR has to be 350, they are surely going to lose money
Hangzhou-Changsha is obvious: it connects Shanghai and Guangzhou, and the existing railways between them, Nanjing-Wuhan and Ningbo-Shenzhen, are only 200 km/h.
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Originally Posted by augst6 View Post
Even if that's the case, I don't see how it's profitable given that people could get from Singapore to Shanghai and Moscow to Beijing by flight much much more faster.
Beijing-Shenzhen by G train takes 8:33, and costs 936 yuan 5 jiao. Beijing-Shenzhen by plane takes about 2 and a half hours. Is the train profitable?
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Old March 30th, 2014, 01:07 PM   #7833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Beijing-Shenzhen by G train takes 8:33, and costs 936 yuan 5 jiao. Beijing-Shenzhen by plane takes about 2 and a half hours. Is the train profitable?
What percentage of passengers take it all the way instead of boarding/departing at one of the intermediate stations? Most likely very small unless the plane costs a lot more.
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Old March 30th, 2014, 02:38 PM   #7834
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
And believe or not "Chinese who live in western small cities" is not a very representative group of current or potential HSR consumers.
When lines are opening up near small western cities in the poorer provinces, they most definitely ARE potential HSR customers and asking them if they can afford it (they can't) is very pertinent.
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Old March 30th, 2014, 02:58 PM   #7835
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Old March 30th, 2014, 03:10 PM   #7836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Hangzhou-Changsha is obvious: it connects Shanghai and Guangzhou, and the existing railways between them, Nanjing-Wuhan and Ningbo-Shenzhen, are only 200 km/h.

Beijing-Shenzhen by G train takes 8:33, and costs 936 yuan 5 jiao. Beijing-Shenzhen by plane takes about 2 and a half hours. Is the train profitable?
Thanks for the info However, I meant, once Chinese HSR connects to Europe thru Urumqi, to make maybe Moscow to Beijing in 15 hrs, how does this compare to flight? The same applies to Singapore.

I read somewhere that China is trying to connect London thru HSR, which makes the journey take 2 days, how is it economically viable?

Even connecting to Urumqi is a bad decision in my opinion, obviously a political decision. Section Urumqi to Lanzhou is so sparsely populated, the money to build 350kmh there could make a lot other improvements elsewhere.

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Old March 30th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #7837
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Originally Posted by augst6 View Post
Thanks for the info However, I meant, once Chinese HSR connects to Europe thru Urumqi, to make maybe Moscow to Beijing in 15 hrs, how does this compare to flight? The same applies to Singapore.

I read somewhere that China is trying to connect London thru HSR, which makes the journey take 2 days, how is it economically viable?

Even connecting to Urumqi is a bad decision in my opinion, obviously a political decision. Section Urumqi to Lanzhou is so sparsely populated, the money to build 350kmh there could make a lot other improvements elsewhere.

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the price of 350KM/H and 250KM/H is nearly the same,if you built the line on the land,they will save lots of money,BUT they are most on the viaducts,the price of viaducts are the same for 250KM/H and 350KM/H.Section Urumqi to Lanzhou with the hardware to run at 350KM/H but it has been adjusted to 250KM/H in track ultrahigh.
passenger line does not have too much benefit for economy, freight and passenger line work together will help.the reason why China built so many HSR is because they need to free the old lines to run more freight trains.High speed passenger line is only part of the China railway development.and most foreigners have only seen the HSR.Freight trains are the most important Economic source to suport the Operations of the HSR.In the past decade,the weight of freight has rise from 5500-tons to more than 20,000-tons,last week China run a train with totally 31,600-tons,the power of locomotive now in China,most are 7200KW,in main lines they are 9600KW.and more and more sing line become double-lines,Electrified railway also become more and more.
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Old March 30th, 2014, 08:46 PM   #7838
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Exactly HSR freight to EU is more viable, faster and cheaper than the sea routes.
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Old March 30th, 2014, 09:01 PM   #7839
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Faster certainly, cheaper I doubt it. Sea transport has such vast economies of scale that it tends to be cheaper than anything else pretty much anywhere.
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Old March 30th, 2014, 11:22 PM   #7840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Exactly HSR freight to EU is more viable, faster and cheaper than the sea routes.
Rail freight fits a gap between sea freight and air freight for the China-Europe route as:

Rail freight is faster than the sea route, but is more expensive .
Rail freight is slower than air freight, but a lot less expensive.
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