daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 31st, 2014, 03:50 PM   #7841
kunming tiger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: kunming
Posts: 7,029
Likes (Received): 1665

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Faster certainly, cheaper I doubt it. Sea transport has such vast economies of scale that it tends to be cheaper than anything else pretty much anywhere.
The cost would depend on where the freight originated from to some extent eg if you were shipping products from China interior or western border regions into the interior of the EU would it be more expensive by rail ? Taking into account the extra cost of shipping it eastwards to the ports in China then by sea then from the ports in the EU to the final destination.
kunming tiger no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 31st, 2014, 04:20 PM   #7842
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Quote:
Originally Posted by augst6 View Post
Thanks for the info However, I meant, once Chinese HSR connects to Europe thru Urumqi, to make maybe Moscow to Beijing in 15 hrs, how does this compare to flight? The same applies to Singapore.

I read somewhere that China is trying to connect London thru HSR, which makes the journey take 2 days, how is it economically viable?
There is a thread on Pan-(Eur)Asian rail travel, we should use it.

I don't think in most circumstances high-speed rail China-Europe would be competitive with air travel as people transport, even assuming that the technical and political problems were well solved. What would you prefer, an 10 hour flight or a two days train ride?

For cargo the problem isn't as such the speed. A good speed of 150 km/h on a perfectly straight line from Beijing to Berlin without breaks would take roughly two days. At 100 km/h that would be a little more than three days. As far as I remember cargo from Beijing to Berlin takes, at best, two weeks. Most of the time the cargo cars are standing still, waiting for processing, usually in Russia. By comparison a ship takes a month and a plane a day.

An efficient transport system at normal speed but minimal waiting should be able to cut this time down to four days. This would be a greater benefit at a vastly lower cost than upgrading to high-speed cargo and a shipping time of 1-2 days (though in that case trains would compete with planes rather than ships).
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 31st, 2014, 07:01 PM   #7843
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
The cost would depend on where the freight originated from to some extent eg if you were shipping products from China interior or western border regions into the interior of the EU would it be more expensive by rail ? Taking into account the extra cost of shipping it eastwards to the ports in China then by sea then from the ports in the EU to the final destination.
Seaborne freight is almost certainly cheaper than rail, even when taking into account a favourable route from the Chinese interior to Germany.

Rail route to Europe improves freight transport
http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/worl...t_16966629.htm

Starting in Chongqing, the Chongqing-Xinjiang-Europe International Railway passes through Xi'an, Lanzhou, Urumqi and the Alataw Pass, where it enters Kazakhstan, before continuing through Russia, Belarus and Poland, finally ending in Duisburg, Germany.

The rail freight corridor aims to take market share from air freight with medium-value freight that needs to go faster than sea freight.

Stretching 11,179 kilometers, it takes just 16 days on average to transport goods from China to Europe by rail, 20 days fewer than by sea from China's eastern ports, making rail ideal for goods with a shorter shelf life.
The cost is one-fifth that of transporting cargo by air, and there is just one customs inspection along the whole route between Chongqing and Central Asia. Since it began operating in 2011, the cost of transporting goods on the line has also fallen, from 80 cents per 22 metric tons of cargo for every kilometer, to 70 cents.

===

There is also some competition with other lines that provide similarly low-cost overland transport to Europe. A line linking Asia and Europe was launched in July, running from Zhengzhou, a business and logistics center in Central China, to Hamburg, Europe's second largest port.
The route reaches Germany via Kazakhstan, Russia, Belarus and Poland, taking 18 days to cover the 10,214 km, more than twice as fast as by sea. It is also about 80 percent cheaper than air transport and significantly cheaper than going by road.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 01:48 AM   #7844
xinxingren
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 270
Likes (Received): 72

Maomingdong - Zhanjiang HSR 茂名东 - 湛江

2014 March 30 I travelled this mythical line on K408 Haikou - Changsha. The line from the channel port is single track, diesel powered, no welded rails, and rather lumpity. As I was coming east (north), I had been watching since Zhanjiangxi 湛江西 for signs of typical HSR work, but nothing. At Tangkou 塘口 the old line forks in three to serve different sections of the Zhanjiang district. There was a lot of work being done here with sleepers and ballast all over the place. The central fork is double tracked. About 300 metres north of the forks our train veered right, on the right track of a double track line. The banking indicated it was designed for a higher speed than we were creeping at. The left track had a work train on it, and its alignment left no doubt it was unfit for passenger trains. We continued on the right track until about 50 km from Maoming, where we crossed onto the left track at a place that had crossovers and turnout loops on both sides, like a station, but no signs whatever of any station construction. We slowed in several places for work gangs. After the clickety old line it was nice to ride a continuous welded rail, and our diesel hit 94km/hr over one stretch of 5km by the marker posts. (I never got to see what the actual loco was.) There are not continuous distance marker posts. There are footings in place for electric catenary supporting poles maybe two-thirds the distance, but no poles up. The signal and ancillary cable ducts look much nicer in the photos below than their average condition. There's loose ballast everywhere until breakfast time, most of the line being on earth embankments or cuttings, with only a few viaducts across some wide valleys.

IMNSHO the report of this line being "open" at the beginning of this year was (as somebody famous said) being economical with the truth. It was a good excuse to wave some flags and drink some beer. But the line is still single track for half its distance, infested with work gangs, and the ballasting means it must be intended for 200km/hr max.

Northwest of Maoming gathering darkness and lowering rainclouds hid any view of any possible connection of this section to Zhaoqing 肇庆 or Sanshui 三水.




Bare platform, no name, no buildings, 29km from Maoming.



Crossing over one of the old lines into Maoming.


K408 at Mao-ing east on the "HSR" platform.


We were delayed during the night by lightning and torrential rain, arriving in Zuzhou three hours late to see these guys parked next to us. Obviously there's a demand for a service there.
xinxingren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 05:02 AM   #7845
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

HSR news update

April 1
Discount tickets provided for less busy hour high speed trains

Most of the discounted tickets are Beijing-Guangzhou and Beijing-Shanghai first class and higher seats (small amount of second class seats). The published discount tickets (70% to 80% of normal price) are valid for April to June time frame.


source


April 1
High speed rail starts express mail service

CRH Express (中铁快运) starts to provide same-day, next-morning and next-day express mail service in 20 cities from April 1 2014.


source
__________________

Equario, ilovecoffee liked this post
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 07:53 AM   #7846
kunming tiger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: kunming
Posts: 7,029
Likes (Received): 1665

Seaborne freight is almost certainly cheaper than rail, even when taking into account a favourable route from the Chinese interior to Germany.

Valid point though I was thinking more along the lines of moving freight between the interior and Russia and vice versa. Trade can only increase along that route.
kunming tiger no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 08:45 AM   #7847
flankerjun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Shenyang/Wuhan
Posts: 461
Likes (Received): 1230

Quote:
China Southern Airlines is the latest Chinese airline to post miserable year-end 2013 results. Net profit dropped 24 percent to 1.99 billion yuan ($321 million), and operating profit fell 70 percent. China Southern Airlines joins Air China, where net profit dropped 32 percent in 2013, and China Eastern Airlines, where it fell by 25 percent.

High oil prices, as well as increased competition from low-cost carriers and each other, have taken a toll. But, as each airline has recently acknowledged, so has China's massive and growing high-speed rail system.
http://qz.com/193556/chinas-high-spe...line-industry/
flankerjun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 08:49 AM   #7848
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Seaborne freight is almost certainly cheaper than rail, even when taking into account a favourable route from the Chinese interior to Germany.

Valid point though I was thinking more along the lines of moving freight between the interior and Russia and vice versa. Trade can only increase along that route.
CRHExpress' advantage is obviously not price but speed and it's targeting domestic market.

Quote:
April 1
High speed rail starts express mail service

CRH Express (中铁快运) starts to provide same-day, next-morning and next-day express mail service in 20 cities from April 1 2014.
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 09:55 AM   #7849
flankerjun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Shenyang/Wuhan
Posts: 461
Likes (Received): 1230

HSR has a big advantage in freight transportation, I mean express delivery,not traditon coal and containers,Everybody knows that E-commerce is developing very fast in China,and most are transported by trucks,few by Air,and something with battery are not allowed board the plane,BUT bullet train could,and work is doing so little,last Dec I bought a HTC phone from T-mall,it takes 2 days until I received my phone,From Shanghai to Wuhan,i think it is too slow.
flankerjun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 04:54 PM   #7850
hhzz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Guilin
Posts: 428
Likes (Received): 1274

Harbin-Dalian HSR

The high-speed trains from Harbin to Dalian will switch to the summer schedule starting on April 21, and trains will run at 300 km per hour, up from 200 km per hour.
hhzz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 06:20 PM   #7851
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
HSR has a big advantage in freight transportation, I mean express delivery,not traditon coal and containers,Everybody knows that E-commerce is developing very fast in China,and most are transported by trucks,few by Air,and something with battery are not allowed board the plane,BUT bullet train could,and work is doing so little,last Dec I bought a HTC phone from T-mall,it takes 2 days until I received my phone,From Shanghai to Wuhan,i think it is too slow.
Currently most packages will be placed under a bus in cargo and moved with overnight sleeper buses, long haul day buses, local buses, local delivery services and the many national services with a web presence, throughout the country, being distributed at large centres in a few big cities.

It can take as many as 8 or 10 days for a package to get from north to south. 3 to 5 is the norm for online delivery. With a CRH express option this could make most online purchases into 1 or 2 day delivery if it is near a CRH route.

However once the package gets onto local buses it will travel at 30 or 40 km/h.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 09:13 PM   #7852
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Is there some kind of express delivery service in China (DHL, Fedex or local equivalents)?

TGV's have been used for mail delivery for long time, certainly could do the same in China. Probably cheaper than with airplanes.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 09:28 PM   #7853
flankerjun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Shenyang/Wuhan
Posts: 461
Likes (Received): 1230

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is there some kind of express delivery service in China (DHL, Fedex or local equivalents)?

TGV's have been used for mail delivery for long time, certainly could do the same in China. Probably cheaper than with airplanes.
YES,at every dawn time there will be a test a train to confirm the track before the whole day's running,they use this train for express delivery,but this is far not enough.

来自我的 HTC One 上的 Tapatalk
flankerjun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 09:44 PM   #7854
flankerjun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Shenyang/Wuhan
Posts: 461
Likes (Received): 1230

what i think is that they need a special bullet train,like boeing 747F cargo plane,with no window,bigger doors,and some lift facilities.

来自我的 HTC One 上的 Tapatalk
flankerjun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 10:52 PM   #7855
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,979
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
what i think is that they need a special bullet train,like boeing 747F cargo plane,with no window,bigger doors,and some lift facilities.
No. Because it degrades the service frequencies.
What is needed is a mail car, that could be included in a 8 or 16 car trainset. There is space there - the 8 or 16 car trains have business class cars, first class cars, restaurant cars...
After all, a HSR train stops for just 120 or 180 seconds at a station, doors open to doors shut. Therefore the Railway Post Office workers should sort the mail while the train is moving, so that they would sort out all mail for a station before the train enters it, and get it to the platform in these seconds.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 11:13 PM   #7856
gdolniak
Mememe...
 
gdolniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 190
Likes (Received): 29

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No. Because it degrades the service frequencies.
What is needed is a mail car, that could be included in a 8 or 16 car trainset. There is space there - the 8 or 16 car trains have business class cars, first class cars, restaurant cars...
After all, a HSR train stops for just 120 or 180 seconds at a station, doors open to doors shut. Therefore the Railway Post Office workers should sort the mail while the train is moving, so that they would sort out all mail for a station before the train enters it, and get it to the platform in these seconds.
Is it something similar to:just to name few?
gdolniak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2014, 11:16 PM   #7857
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is there some kind of express delivery service in China (DHL, Fedex or local equivalents)?

TGV's have been used for mail delivery for long time, certainly could do the same in China. Probably cheaper than with airplanes.
DHL, FedEx, UPS and China Post EMS all offer next day service in China. Locally you have Yunda, STO-Express, YTO-Express, and SF, the last two has their own cargo aircraft fleet.
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2014, 02:55 AM   #7858
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Currently most packages will be placed under a bus in cargo and moved with overnight sleeper buses, long haul day buses, local buses, local delivery services and the many national services with a web presence, throughout the country, being distributed at large centres in a few big cities.

It can take as many as 8 or 10 days for a package to get from north to south. 3 to 5 is the norm for online delivery. With a CRH express option this could make most online purchases into 1 or 2 day delivery if it is near a CRH route.

However once the package gets onto local buses it will travel at 30 or 40 km/h.
How long do EMS deliveries take between provinces in China?
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2014, 04:20 AM   #7859
flankerjun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Shenyang/Wuhan
Posts: 461
Likes (Received): 1230

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
How long do EMS deliveries take between provinces in China?
except Xinjiang snd Tibet,if you send it today,you will received the day after tomorrow,this is for capital cities,if you are in small cities,you will need one more day.

来自我的 HTC One 上的 Tapatalk
flankerjun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:18 AM   #7860
hhzz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Guilin
Posts: 428
Likes (Received): 1274

Xi'an-Chengdu HSR,March 30th,2014

Yishui river bridge constructions in Shaanxi province,Western China.

From peoplerail.com
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
hhzz no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium