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Old April 12th, 2014, 04:27 AM   #7881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
China railway Corporation release some data about railway update to 2013.

locomotive:20,835, electrical loco:52.1%,Disel loco:47.8%.HX serises :7017
passenger coach:58,820
freight coach:688,042
total railway length:103,144 KM (64,090.7 miles)
double track lines:48,274 KM (29,996 miles)
Electrified lines: 55,811 KM (34679.3 miles)
amount of bullet train: 1308
Impressive numbers, indeed.
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Old April 12th, 2014, 05:37 AM   #7882
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One for the Speed Freaks
Yup, it must be a Guangzhou vs Shanghai thing. On the way back Shenzhen - Xiamenbei 205-207 km/hr. Change drivers at Xiamen and from there north 196-199 km/hr.

And next time I'll fly. Even as a train nutter I have to agree with the people who compare time and cost. But the second class CHR seats are dreadful, worse than economy air for legroom and sitability. So I took first class coming back, and the seat was much better, but they didn't warn me there were three screaming babies in our car, and three more got on along the way, complete with granma and all the baggage. Come sunset, babies' bedtime, and the 3-5 year olds full of fizz start running up and down the car yahooing. They can't do that in an airplane. BTW how do you avoid getting a "window" seat that is next to the pillar between the windows?
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Old April 12th, 2014, 05:55 AM   #7883
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Last week I noticed between Zhuzhou and Changsha the pillars for the turnouts on the Changsha - Guiyang section of HuKun HSR line. They are standing there all sad and more moss stained than when Google earth photographed them three(?) years ago. The only possible signs of work was the beam placing machine had laid three beams, but it too might have been abandoned on site and is waiting for some new life force.

Due to various circumstances I had to take a night K train on the Changsha - Hangzhou sector and saw only a few tens of kilometres each end. Even so there were stretches with no poles up, and stretches with poles but no wires yet. CHR have come to their senses on D106, custom must have been poor overnight, with no sleepers, and the lights on all the way. There were already 2 K and a T sleeper trains on the route. So now D106 is daytime, 16 cars, stopping at more stations than any of the overniters, and is booked solid 4 days out.
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Old April 12th, 2014, 06:48 AM   #7884
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What's speed of Chengdu-Chongqing line?

Looks like it has ballastless track, but not same as those used in 300-350km/h line
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Old April 12th, 2014, 10:17 AM   #7885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wharton2010 View Post
What's speed of Chengdu-Chongqing line?

Looks like it has ballastless track, but not same as those used in 300-350km/h line
hardware 300-350km/h,software 250km/h

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Old April 12th, 2014, 02:58 PM   #7886
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Considering the information about China railway are too Scattered,I want to open a new thread about China railway,to post some very detailed,Systemic information about China railway,how about this idea?
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Old April 13th, 2014, 03:22 PM   #7887
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I disagree - this thread is good enough for the China rail info and updates.
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Old April 13th, 2014, 03:25 PM   #7888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
How long do EMS deliveries take between provinces in China?
Sometimes forever.

When ordering online the choices for express shipping number up to 50. There are many companies but the biggest ones have been mentioned in thread.

EMS is notorious for not delivering - it is the Express Shipping department of China Post, the national mail service - and it is ALWAYS the slowest for getting deliveries or things simply never arrive.

The common wisdom here is that 'you don't use EMS, it's a hassle or worse'.

ZTO, SF, STO and similar are great. They deliver to your door or to the gate of your complex.
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Old April 13th, 2014, 03:46 PM   #7889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
There is a thread on Pan-(Eur)Asian rail travel, we should use it.

I don't think in most circumstances high-speed rail China-Europe would be competitive with air travel as people transport, even assuming that the technical and political problems were well solved. What would you prefer, an 10 hour flight or a two days train ride?
Asides the fact that we here are train fanatics, there is the simple fact that one can SEE the country as you travel by train. So yes, I would like to take a 3 days ride from China to Europe to see the continent at a slower pace. Get a sleeper compartment, bring some fruit, eat in the dining car, sounds like a great trip.

Let's run some figures.

Xiang Gang to Shenzhen to Urumqi to Lisbon is about 13,375 kms or a bit longer depending on the route through Kazakhstan, Russia and other nations.

200kph average 67 hours
250kph average 54 hours
300kph average 46 hours

China CRH fares are about .42 Yuan per km, so 5818 Yuan or 675 Euros.

Airfare from Beijing is 6,000 to 8,000. Add food, sleeper cabin, and the price is -10% of an aircraft ticket.

Still, I would like to see Eurasia from the ground - wouldn't you?
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Old April 13th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #7890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
EMS is notorious for not delivering - it is the Express Shipping department of China Post, the national mail service - and it is ALWAYS the slowest for getting deliveries or things simply never arrive.

The common wisdom here is that 'you don't use EMS, it's a hassle or worse'.

ZTO, SF, STO and similar are great. They deliver to your door or to the gate of your complex.
yes nobody is using the state owned EMS. The private shipping companies are much faster with better services. They dominate the e-commerce market.

I often order home necessities from yihaodian.com. If you put your order in the morning there's a good chance you receive the goods in the afternoon (I live in Shanghai) and the shipping is free!
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Old April 14th, 2014, 03:22 AM   #7891
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Chongqing - Lanzhou HSR line,
Chongqing - Guang'an section will be open in this year ?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:21 AM   #7892
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Old April 14th, 2014, 10:52 AM   #7893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Asides the fact that we here are train fanatics, there is the simple fact that one can SEE the country as you travel by train. So yes, I would like to take a 3 days ride from China to Europe to see the continent at a slower pace. Get a sleeper compartment, bring some fruit, eat in the dining car, sounds like a great trip.

Let's run some figures.

Xiang Gang to Shenzhen to Urumqi to Lisbon is about 13,375 kms or a bit longer depending on the route through Kazakhstan, Russia and other nations.

200kph average 67 hours
250kph average 54 hours
300kph average 46 hours

China CRH fares are about .42 Yuan per km, so 5818 Yuan or 675 Euros.

Airfare from Beijing is 6,000 to 8,000. Add food, sleeper cabin, and the price is -10% of an aircraft ticket.
How do you get these numbers?
There are 3 G trains daily Shenzhen-Xian. G818, G822, G826. G822 and G826 take 9:38, G818 9:48. None of the 3 is an express. The second class seat price is 888 yuan on G818 and G822, and for some reason 890 yuan on G826.
First class seat of G822 is 1401 yuan, and business class seat 2768 yuan.

What could be done with time? Well, there are no express from Shenzhen to Xian nor Beijing now, but there is one express train Beijing-Shenzhen. While Guangzhou has 1 express train both ways to both Xian and Beijing. G96 travels Guangzhou-Xian in just 7:40.

The lone express train to Shenzhen, G79, travels Beijing-Guangzhou in 7:59, and then reaches Shenzhen 34 minutes later, in 8:33. So if G96 were to originate in Shenzhen, it could leave at 8:26, then depart Guangzhou at 9:00 as it already does and cover Shenzhen-Xian in 8:14 total.

Now about that sleeper cabin... On Beijing-Shanghai, there are 3 D trains each night, D313, D311 and D321. On these, second class seat costs 309 yuan and soft sleeper berth - 4 berths in cabin - 696 yuan. By my estimate about 225 % the price of second class seat.

So a sleeper G train Shenzhen-Xian where second class seat costs 888 yuan could incorporate a soft sleeper car with tickets of 2000 yuan. More expensive than the 1401 yuan first class seat, but cheaper than the 2768 yuan business class seat.

Now, beyond Xian.

Xian-Lanzhou by old railway is 676 km. Xian-Xining is 904 km. Compare Beijing-Zhengzhou, which is 693 km, and takes 2:24 nonstop. So if Xian-Baoji-Lanzhou is built as a proper 300 km/h line, we are at about 10:45 Shenzhen-Lanzhou

Lanzhou-Xining-Urumqi is almost 1800 km, comparable to Guangzhou-Shijiazhuang. Which takes 6:50 for express train G66.
So we are at about 17:35 total for Shenzhen-Urumqi.
Incidentally, with 17 hours Guangzhou-Urumqi, G96 with 9:00 departure from Guangzhou is inconvenient - it would terminate in Urumqi at 2:00.
Since Xining-Urumqi is desert, it could make sense to travel through desert overnight. Schedule the train to arrive in Urumqi at, say, 6:00. Then it would depart Xining at midnight, Lanzhou about 23, and Xian about 20:30. We would get a departure from Shenzhen shortly after noon, and from Guangzhou slightly before 13.
Now, to price. Since Xian-Urumqi is somewhat longer than Shenzhen-Xian, my guess would be:
second class seat 2000 yuan
first class seat 3200 yuan
soft sleeper berth 4500 yuan

Would you buy tickets at that price and schedule?
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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:33 AM   #7894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
How do you get these numbers?
Chorned, I will no longer reply to your lengthy queries to justify my posts.

Do what I did and spend the time to map out the segments using online tools and existing China train timetable websites that have ticket prices and distances. Look at ticket prices per km and do the maths yourself as I did.

I spent about 120 minutes doing this.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:34 AM   #7895
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Shenyang North railway station









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Old April 17th, 2014, 09:15 AM   #7896
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The Guangxi section of the Nanning-Guangzhou HSR line will be open for service tomorrow (April 18).
You can find the timetables/ticket prices posted already on 12306.com.
There are direct trains running the route from Wuzhou South to Nanning, Guilin, and Beihai. The section from Wuzhou South to Guangzhou should open by September this year.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 11:38 AM   #7897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Asides the fact that we here are train fanatics, there is the simple fact that one can SEE the country as you travel by train. So yes, I would like to take a 3 days ride from China to Europe to see the continent at a slower pace. Get a sleeper compartment, bring some fruit, eat in the dining car, sounds like a great trip.
I continued this topic in the other thread.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:42 PM   #7898
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today is April 18,seven years ago at the same day the 6th speed-up began,and the high speed train CRH first time apeared in China.In 1978 when Deng xiaoping ride the bullet train in JP,he said we also need this type of trains.and 30 years later,the Chinese people realised their dream.

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Old April 17th, 2014, 11:18 PM   #7899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Do what I did and spend the time to map out the segments using online tools and existing China train timetable websites that have ticket prices and distances. Look at ticket prices per km and do the maths yourself as I did.

I spent about 120 minutes doing this.
As you see, I did exactly that, and spent time for it. Looking at ticket prices. You can see and read my work in my post.

I quite believe your estimate that Guangzhou-Urumqi-Malaga would be over 13 000 km, and about 3 times the distance of Guangzhou-Urumqi. Trip time estimate of over 50 hours for express G train I agree with. And at Chinese G train prices, the ticket should be about 6000 yuan. Also agreed.

Provided that you sit these 50+ hours in a second class seat.

What I challenge is your assertion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand
Add food, sleeper cabin, and the price is -10% of an aircraft ticket.
You CAN sit 50+ hours in a Chinese train. Guangzhou-Urumqi, T38, travels for 54 hours 37 minutes: it departs Guangzhou at 23:48, and arrives in Urumqi at 6:25 on fourth morning.

A hard seat on T38 costs 433 yuan 5 jiao.

But a sleeper cabin is NOT cheap on T38, or any other Chinese train!

A hard sleeper on T38 costs 779 yuan 5 jiao. A soft sleeper on T38 costs 1306 yuan 5 jiao.

Note that the T38 soft sleeper costs about 300 % the price of hard seat on the same train. D311, D321 and D313 between Beijing and Shanghai are quite unusual in having soft sleeper at just 225 % the price of a second class seat.

T38 hard sleeper costs about 180 % the price of hard seat.

So my estimate:
Yes, Guangzhou-Urumqi-Malaga could be had for 6000 yuan, provided it is 50+ hours sitting a second class seat. A soft sleeper berth on the same route should be about 18 000 yuan, and a hard sleeper berth around 11 000 yuan.

Which of these tickets would you buy?
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Old April 17th, 2014, 11:29 PM   #7900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
So my estimate:
Yes, Guangzhou-Urumqi-Malaga could be had for 6000 yuan, provided it is 50+ hours sitting a second class seat. A soft sleeper berth on the same route should be about 18 000 yuan, and a hard sleeper berth around 11 000 yuan.

Which of these tickets would you buy?
The only reasonable application of such passenger service (all the way from Guangzhou or even Urumqi to Malaga) would be railway-dedicated tourism (like a fast version of Trans-Siberian). It would certainly not work for business trips or even regular tourism travel even if it was half the price of what you estimate. Even today I really doubt that there are many passengers for the entire Beijing-Guangzhou service which takes 7:59 hours. You can fly much faster so why bother? HSR can work for distances up to around 1500km (depends on how fast the trains go) in order to be competitive with air travel.
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