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Old June 10th, 2014, 02:23 AM   #8161
maldini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
This is typical in China. All forms of regular transport average 30 to 60 kph. Bus, train, car on highways. The HSR, connecting subways, and aircraft of course, eliminate the massive slowdown in transit speeds.

Once you exit the HSR system your travel speeds will plummet and be much lower than any other country.

Being within 50kms of a HSR line and/or station will reduce much of this.

I recall a trip from Guangzhou to Wuhan in early 2010 that took 3.25 hours and then the trip from Wuhan to Xian took 17 hours by bus.

For those of you who may visit China and want to ride the HSR, you need to prepare for the very slow travel velocities once you disembark.

You will be able to take an HSR trip of 550kms in 2.5 hours and when you get on the connecting bus at the train station you will then consume 90 minutes to travel 50kms.
That's not true anymore. More recently, the speed of most forms of transportation has been vastly improved.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 04:58 AM   #8162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
That's not true anymore. More recently, the speed of most forms of transportation has been vastly improved.
As can be seen from this topic.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 08:54 AM   #8163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Please do not post about something you know nothing about.

You are posting from reading a webpage
You did not bother illustrating exactly how slow the parallel slow speed train was. Well, I cannot easily now check how much a slow train would have taken back in early 2010, but the 15 hours of some K trains is not much faster than the 17 hours of bus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
, and you have never set foot in China.
Thatīs literally false, incidentally.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 10:51 AM   #8164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
Guiyang-Guangzhou HSR,250km/h-300km/h,this is a milestone line for Guizhou Province,it is the first HSR in Guizhou,will cut thetime from 20-22 hours to about 4 hours.

I notice those concrete sleepers by the track. They are not being used nor are they the same profile as the ballastless track.

Any idea why there's so many there?
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Old June 10th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #8165
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
As can be seen from this topic.
You guys are wrong.

You post pictures of a freeway, and you have dozens of assumptions about the traffic flow on that road.

You are wrong about your assumptions.

Last edited by China Hand; June 10th, 2014 at 05:21 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 05:06 PM   #8166
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
You did not bother illustrating exactly how slow the parallel slow speed train was. Well, I cannot easily now check how much a slow train would have taken back in early 2010, but the 15 hours of some K trains is not much faster than the 17 hours of bus.
Why do I have to illustrate this? You claim to be familiar with the topic, you claimed to have visited China or lived in China or travelled in China. If you HAD then I would not have to explain this. You would know it.

Chorned you don't know what you are talking about. You are posting tables you pull down, but nothing is from real experience because if you had any experience you would be able to tell the truth about times and travel and why it is so slow to travel in China when the speeds you quote are so fast.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop posting on this topic.

Quote:
but the 15 hours of some K trains is not much faster than the 17 hours of bus.
You are wrong, again.

Here are some of the reasons why the times are different:
1) Trains often leave at odd hours. Please spare me your compulsoin of pulling table times. I live here. Trains leave at odd hours in many places. How do I know? because I have been on those 3 am K trains that are slower than a bus. Those trains travel at 60phn average speed.

How do I know they are slower than a bus? Because I timed the trips myself when I rode them and used published as well as personally calculated distances. Me, on a train, stopwatch function of my phone, a calculator. Not some webpage.

2) One has to wait from 2pm until 3am to catch that train. Connecting fast trains get one to town at odd hours, then it's the local bus (very slow) or a taxi if you can find one to pick you up. In winter. In cold miserable conditions. If you knew the subject (you don't) you would know what travel in China is like. I would not have to post that it's cold, miserable and a nasty experience to wait for those 3 am trains to arrive in Winter, that the nearby hotels will be booked solid and one has no choice but to encamp in the station lobby. This is a miserable experience. No mention of that from you - not a surprise. You are posting fiction.

3) Trains will often be booked beyond standing room capacity. This isn't an adventure, or fun - it's pure misery that no one should ever experience.

So we have here myself who has actually arrived at a train station at 2pm, saw the next train left in 12 hours, it was February, cold and all the hotels were booked solid, and decided to take a long distance sleeper bus because that was the only way to get home.

Then there is the fiction posted by chorned and others.

Last edited by China Hand; June 10th, 2014 at 05:23 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 05:40 PM   #8167
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11 Trains will operate on the Datong line in a few weeks.

8 to from Xian Taiyuan daily
2 to from Baoji Taiyuan daily
1 to from Xian Yucheng weekends only

Live testing with full trainsets to be done next week and the following, 35 failure safety tests performed last week.

Scheduled opening remains as July 1
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Old June 10th, 2014, 06:02 PM   #8168
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You seem to be having quite a sour experience travelling in China. My experiences have been completely fine. I've taken the bus from Shanghai to Changzhou/Hangzhou no problems and overnight trains to Beijing that leave within 1 minute of their scheduled departure time. I will admit I haven't traveled into the western areas, but I wouldn't have a high expectation on travel times in those areas anyway.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 07:11 PM   #8169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingstingsting View Post
I notice those concrete sleepers by the track. They are not being used nor are they the same profile as the ballastless track.

Any idea why there's so many there?
there are used on the lines that used for parking trains in stations
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Old June 10th, 2014, 07:34 PM   #8170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
11 Trains will operate on the Datong line in a few weeks.

8 to from Xian Taiyuan daily
2 to from Baoji Taiyuan daily
1 to from Xian Yucheng weekends only

Live testing with full trainsets to be done next week and the following, 35 failure safety tests performed last week.

Scheduled opening remains as July 1
And how many of these trains have you travelled with, as of today?
Nobody has. Thatīs even more fiction than the schedules of trains that are reported to actually operate. You read it somewhere, like us. Unless you are personally working at China Railways Corporation, and your boss told you orally.

Quote:
Why do I have to illustrate this?
You donīt. Maginn (who is from China, just not mainland) asked a question about the ordinary trains; his supposition that they would be "much faster" than buses was something I could check and illustrate.
Quote:
you claimed to have visited China or lived in China or travelled in China.
I claim to have visited China. It was false of you to claim that I have "never set foot" there.
I donīt claim to have "lived" in China. When I travelled in China, it was by group bus, not public transport (except trolleybus).
Quote:
Trains often leave at odd hours. Please spare me your compulsoin of pulling table times. I live here. Trains leave at odd hours in many places. How do I know? because I have been on those 3 am K trains
But trains which leave at odd hours are in timetables, too. I have noticed it myself. And sometimes commented on it.

Quote:
that are slower than a bus. Those trains travel at 60phn average speed.
Yes. From the timetables, I have noticed several trains that travel at 60 kph, and slower - sometimes below 40 kph. I quite believe that buses are often faster than these trains. But I also believe you that buses are not very fast either. I know that I donīt know how fast buses usually are in China. Thatīs why I read and listen when those who know bother to tell something.

Quote:
No mention of that from you - not a surprise. You are posting fiction.
Just how does not knowing your exact time of arrival make the schedules "fiction"?

But asking about these schedules and connecting trains at odd hours: Are the schedules fiction? Do these trains run on time usually? When you get up to get to a station at 3 am, does the train actually leave at 3 am? Or are you usually left waiting for the delayed train in the cold with no idea whether it shows up at 4 am or 5 am, or worse, hear that it ran ahead of schedule and already left at 2:30 am?

Again - just because a train time is inconvenient does not mean that itīs slow. It can be both slow and odd timed, but itīs perfectly reasonable to prefer a slower vehicle at a time that suits you to a faster vehicle at a bad time. If there HAD been a G train leaving at 3 am and taking 4 hours to bring you to Xian in 4 hours by 7 am (there isnīt), wouldnīt you still have taken the bus rather than wait 13 hours in the cold and with all hotels full? Let alone the choice between 17 hour bus right now or 15 hour K train sometime at night. Or maybe it was 18 hour K train back in 2010. Was it?

And asking the question about places: you say that the K trains are often sold full and standing places are miserable. Are sleeper buses ever sold full? And are the high speed trains often left with standing passengers?
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Old June 10th, 2014, 08:41 PM   #8171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
And how many of these trains have you travelled with, as of today?
Nobody has. Thatīs even more fiction than the schedules of trains that are reported to actually operate. You read it somewhere, like us. Unless you are personally working at China Railways Corporation, and your boss told you orally.



You donīt. Maginn (who is from China, just not mainland) asked a question about the ordinary trains; his supposition that they would be "much faster" than buses was something I could check and illustrate.

I claim to have visited China. It was false of you to claim that I have "never set foot" there.
I donīt claim to have "lived" in China. When I travelled in China, it was by group bus, not public transport (except trolleybus).


But trains which leave at odd hours are in timetables, too. I have noticed it myself. And sometimes commented on it.



Yes. From the timetables, I have noticed several trains that travel at 60 kph, and slower - sometimes below 40 kph. I quite believe that buses are often faster than these trains. But I also believe you that buses are not very fast either. I know that I donīt know how fast buses usually are in China. Thatīs why I read and listen when those who know bother to tell something.



Just how does not knowing your exact time of arrival make the schedules "fiction"?

But asking about these schedules and connecting trains at odd hours: Are the schedules fiction? Do these trains run on time usually? When you get up to get to a station at 3 am, does the train actually leave at 3 am? Or are you usually left waiting for the delayed train in the cold with no idea whether it shows up at 4 am or 5 am, or worse, hear that it ran ahead of schedule and already left at 2:30 am?

Again - just because a train time is inconvenient does not mean that itīs slow. It can be both slow and odd timed, but itīs perfectly reasonable to prefer a slower vehicle at a time that suits you to a faster vehicle at a bad time. If there HAD been a G train leaving at 3 am and taking 4 hours to bring you to Xian in 4 hours by 7 am (there isnīt), wouldnīt you still have taken the bus rather than wait 13 hours in the cold and with all hotels full? Let alone the choice between 17 hour bus right now or 15 hour K train sometime at night. Or maybe it was 18 hour K train back in 2010. Was it?

And asking the question about places: you say that the K trains are often sold full and standing places are miserable. Are sleeper buses ever sold full? And are the high speed trains often left with standing passengers?
I can tell you for sure that riding Chinese sleeper buses is a nightmare experience, they are a terrible way to travel...
If an overnight train runs along the same route, even if it's slightly slower, far more people are going to prefer it over the bus ride (these conventional trains are often cheaper than buses as well).
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Old June 11th, 2014, 03:57 AM   #8172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysonn341 View Post
You seem to be having quite a sour experience travelling in China. My experiences have been completely fine. I've taken the bus from Shanghai to Changzhou/Hangzhou no problems and overnight trains to Beijing that leave within 1 minute of their scheduled departure time. I will admit I haven't traveled into the western areas, but I wouldn't have a high expectation on travel times in those areas anyway.
You guys in the rich major cities will not believe that 95% of China is as I describe.

In fact I assumed long ago that those of you who disagree with my posts, lived and travelled only in the major, rich, or coastal, cities.

Of course this assessment was correct.

You live in a bubble. ""into the western areas,"". Yeah, such as west of Nanjing. Clueless. /s

I know and accept that most of China differs from Changzhou/Hangzhou, BSG, etc.

However you do not know or accept that Changzhou/Hangzhou differs from 95% of China.

This is the typical and default attitude of those in the major, rich, coastal cities.

You guys are posting how great Chinese infrastructure is when in fact you take the CRH from Shanghai to Changzhou and declare it modern.

What a joke.

Last edited by China Hand; June 11th, 2014 at 04:26 AM.
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Old June 11th, 2014, 04:40 AM   #8173
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DaXi (Datong-Xi'an) line test video. Open this month.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjg4NzUzODEy.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzIyOTI3OTA4.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA2NzQ0NDk2.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA3MTQ4NTA4.html

http://me.cztv.com/video-1495743.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzE2Nz...4.4-1.12-1-2-3
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Old June 11th, 2014, 04:47 AM   #8174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
You guys in the rich major cities will not believe that 95% of China is as I describe.

In fact I assumed long ago that those of you who disagree with my posts, lived and travelled only in the major, rich, or coastal, cities.

Of course this assessment was correct.

You live in a bubble. ""into the western areas,"". Yeah, such as west of Nanjing. Clueless. /s

I know and accept that most of China differs from Changzhou/Hangzhou, BSG, etc.

However you do not know or accept that Changzhou/Hangzhou differs from 95% of China.

This is the typical and default attitude of those in the major, rich, coastal cities.

You guys are posting how great Chinese infrastructure is when in fact you take the CRH from Shanghai to Changzhou and declare it modern.

What a joke.
I don't doubt you're right, but you might want to shape up on your attitude. Just a hint.
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Old June 11th, 2014, 05:07 AM   #8175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post

You guys are posting how great Chinese infrastructure is when in fact you take the CRH from Shanghai to Changzhou and declare it modern.
I am planning to take this route later this year. What should my expectations be?
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Old June 11th, 2014, 05:20 AM   #8176
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I'd get a little bored myself with only fast trains. Obviously they will be fast and on-time. Ride some sleeper busses or K trains

(And you should stop in Tianjin! Check out Goldin Finance 117 - close to Tianjin South Railway Station, and Yujiapu/Xiangluowan if you have more time, about a 45 minute subway ride)

(Possibly also stop in Shantou, the Paris of Asia)
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Old June 11th, 2014, 05:41 AM   #8177
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good advice
Your coastal trip can get a bit boring, of course, first few hours will be quite exciting, but 12 hours on the train either high-speed or not.. you may feel sorry, that you cannot get out of the train. You could brake your trip into few and visit places like Xiamen, famous coastal city and resort. I've done 28 hour train ride once, that was torture never gona do that again, sleeper trains are good to save on the hotel and arrive to your destination in the morning. Sleeper coaches also good where the train cannot take you and/or if the trip time is shorter, but now they have new regulation, and sleeper coaches cannot travel in the hours between 2-5am (or something like that) so they stop extending your trip time..
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Old June 11th, 2014, 07:12 AM   #8178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
You guys are wrong.

You post pictures of a freeway, and you have dozens of assumptions about the traffic flow on that road.

You are wrong about your assumptions.
I don't get you. Highway and railroad maps are lying? Of course there are thousands of villages and towns without adequate transport infrastructure but still both highway and rail coverage in China is quite good and getting better everyday. If the cheap local buses are not using express-roads not to pay tolls, it is not infrastructure's fault, is it?

If you are talking about traffic jams, well... that happens everywhere and it is a problem of population, season and certain times of the day as much as it is a problem of infrastructure.
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Old June 11th, 2014, 07:18 AM   #8179
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I am planning to take this route later this year. What should my expectations be?
Do it! If I could, I would have split Beijing-Guangzhou and Shanghai-Shenzhen into 2.
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Old June 11th, 2014, 09:09 AM   #8180
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Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
they will be fast and on-time. Ride some sleeper busses or K trains
So repeating my question: are these K and number trains usually on their slow scheduled time?
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