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Old December 8th, 2009, 03:07 AM   #801
Slartibartfas
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Fascinating, 70 kms. In Europe you may hit another city at that distance already. But why would anyone, who has to take the car from the centre to a 70 km distant place via highway to get to the railway station in first place, chose to take the train at all and take the car for the whole trip?

I hope this is rather the exception that high capacity rail intercity links are lacking a high capacity connection to the local PT network.

Having that said, I can of course understand that building this far away from the centre is done due to reasonable arguments and is not done just for the fun of it.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 03:21 AM   #802
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because it will be like an airport
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Old December 8th, 2009, 07:38 AM   #803
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i like this design on page 1, it's a very unique design for a railway station.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 03:08 PM   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Fascinating, 70 kms. In Europe you may hit another city at that distance already. But why would anyone, who has to take the car from the centre to a 70 km distant place via highway to get to the railway station in first place, chose to take the train at all and take the car for the whole trip?
Because it works out much faster?

If the trip is 1000km?

Last edited by makita09; December 8th, 2009 at 04:05 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 04:37 PM   #805
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Locate a new railway station at urban fringe is part of urbanization plan! China need more city space to accept the 500 million people in decades to come in. A huge CRH station can expand city's space . Maybe, there will be emerge 9 or 10 cities with 10 million people in China.

70 km? It's ridiculous. 15 km maximum, average 8km maybe and connect with bus. In big city(with a big CRH railway station)metro under construct or under plan(Changsha city metro is under construct)

Changsha Metro Plan, You can see the location of New Railway Station.
image hosted on flickr
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Old December 8th, 2009, 04:53 PM   #806
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Zhengzhou Metro Plan Map, you can see the location of New Zhengzhou Railway Station(CRH)
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Last edited by HunanChina; December 8th, 2009 at 04:59 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 05:01 PM   #807
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Guangzhou Metro Map 2010
You can see the location of New Guangzhou Railway Station(CRH)
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Old December 8th, 2009, 05:15 PM   #808
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Wuhan City Track Traffic(Metro and Light Rail) System Plan Map
You can see the location of Wuhan Railway Station(CRH)
image hosted on flickr
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Old December 8th, 2009, 05:31 PM   #809
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A guy's exciting adventure in Wuhan Railway Station

CRH2E
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ID:CRH2-128E
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Yes, that is CRH3(ICE)
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Wuhan Railway Station
11 Platforms 22 Lines
Construction Cost:14 billion RMB(about 1.4 billion euro)

Last edited by HunanChina; December 8th, 2009 at 06:02 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #810
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A distance of 70km is a short distance in China. Maybe it's a distance of two small city.
My hometown Changsha is median size(2.2 million people) city, and is about 700 km distance from Guangzhou, about 1200 km distance from Shanghai, about 1500 km distance from Beijing. We need CRH. So many people use the railway transports system, a big Railway Station is necessary.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #811
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Tianxingzhou Road Rail Bridge on Yangtze River 天兴洲长江大桥(铁路公路两用桥)

4 railway lines and CRH train can cross the Bridge with 350km/h.

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Last edited by HunanChina; December 8th, 2009 at 07:18 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 07:15 PM   #812
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just awesome
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Old December 8th, 2009, 07:39 PM   #813
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Both Wuhan station and bridge looks great
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Old December 8th, 2009, 08:06 PM   #814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
A distance of 70km is a short distance in China. Maybe it's a distance of two small city.
My hometown Changsha is median size(2.2 million people) city, and is about 700 km distance from Guangzhou, about 1200 km distance from Shanghai, about 1500 km distance from Beijing. We need CRH. So many people use the railway transports system, a big Railway Station is necessary.
It's the distance between the center of a regional metropolitian area and one of its counties.

This is very common, as I'm sure you already know.

I'm sure Changsha would have counties that are this distance away from its city center.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 08:09 PM   #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post

70 km? It's ridiculous.
I think you misunderstood the post, He was talking about freight rail speed.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #816
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I love all the futuristic design, especially combined with traditional Chinese architecture element. Usually this kind of building style will last for forever and unique.

Some building design look great from the air, but look plain from the street level. I hope China government will check everything carefully from many angle and option before make a choice.

I also dislike futuristic building that everything just has gray color. I think they should use many color, like high quality wood, dark colorful marble, etc. I think the future trend is colorful futuristic building that made from many material, rather than just steel and glass, that makes everything just gray.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Most of these designs look stunning, they look however as if they were in quite remote locations with pretty much nothing around. I honestly know nothing about them, but I guess they will be connected decently by large capacity public means of transport (metro or equivalent). Judging from their size, they should be served by several lines actually, or railway lines in their own right that connect it with the city centre.

I think they miss a real opportunity if they should not develop the surrounding of the railway stations densely and with mixed use developments. The land around these stations should be far too valuable as to waste it for large scale surface parking.

Principally it would be a pity if they should be as remote as Airports use to be, at least in Europe one of the big advantages rail has over aviation is that closeness of the stations to the city centres.
One key difference between China and Europe is that China is still in the midst of rapid urbanization process. Most European cities have been fairly established while most Chinese cities are still evolving. Witness the expanding metropolitan areas of Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and many other cities in China.

The dilemma that the Chinese city planners face is that if you build a brand new railway station close to the center of the city, you're going to be limited by space and you would have to move a lot of people around the area. It is hugely disruptive and expensive for such a rail station. Typically, a Chinese city already has a railway station near the city center serving the existing lines. China is developing a high-speed rail network across the country on completely new tracks. This gives the Chinese city planners an opportunity to plan and map out new and expanded urban areas to facilitate the development. The local governments are using this opportunity to develop a new area in suburb and sell the appreciating land, thus recouping the investment in infrastructure.

Take an extreme example. Guangzhou's commercial center has shifted to the Tianhe area from the old city center due to new development over the last 20 years. The new Guangzhou railway station is pretty far from both old city center and the Tianhe district. But a new and large development area will emerge around the new railway station, serving Guangzhou and its surrounding region. Similarly, Shanghai is planning massive development projects around the Hongqiao railway station (and Hongqiao Airport). The Hongqiao transport hub will be at the center of a commercial and residential area and will serve the nearby Yangtze River Delta. It is also a different development zone oriented toward domestic market from the Pudong area east of Huangpu River more oriented toward finance and international trade.

In fact, for many large Chinese cities, multiple railway stations exist or are planned around the different areas around the city to serve the population around them. Beijing have five railway stations; Shanghai has four; Guangzhou has three.

The highway rail network in China will ultimately shape the Chinese social and economic landscape profoundly. We will witness the huge changes over the next 10-20 years.

Last edited by highway35; December 8th, 2009 at 10:31 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 08:57 PM   #818
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Can the Chinese CRH go at a slow speed to the old lines to access old railway stations or serve branch lines, like French TGV does?

Travelling through cities at slow speed wastes time. But in first and last stops, it would make a lot of sense - those who want can get off in a suburban station.

What is the distance by rail from Changsha to Wuchang? What shall the trip times be from Changsha to Wuchang and Guangzhou as of 27th of December?
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Old December 9th, 2009, 12:36 AM   #819
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@highway35
Thanks for that very informative post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Because it works out much faster?

If the trip is 1000km?
Of course, but a large capacity long distance rail that is not connected by large capacity local rail/metro experiences a serious disadvantage.

Rail has to be competitive on shorter travels against the car and on eg 1000 km against aviation. Maybe the situation in China is different but in Europe, it is a major advantage of the High Speed Rail that its stations are pretty close to the centre, compared to the airports.

Anyway, I think most of these Chinese rail hubs are connected either to Metro or local rail connectors anyway. If what someone said above, that the average distance to the centre would be 8 km thats something very different from the 70 km above and is nothing awkward then.
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; December 9th, 2009 at 01:01 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2009, 01:16 AM   #820
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I think I should make more efforts in my English study.
English is the most difficult language in the world.
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