daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 11th, 2014, 10:37 AM   #8181
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post

Do it! If I could, I would have split Beijing-Guangzhou and Shanghai-Shenzhen into 2.
No no no. No splits. It has to be 100% train and 100% CRH. That's the whole idea.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 11th, 2014, 10:43 AM   #8182
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
No no no. No splits. It has to be 100% train and 100% CRH. That's the whole idea.
But why Beijing-Guangzhou? That train actually is the longest high speed train. it reaches Shenzhen in 8:33 from Beijing. You could thus do a nearly full circle by CRH... only the gap between Beijing West and South cannot be crossed by HSR.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #8183
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post

But why Beijing-Guangzhou? That train actually is the longest high speed train. it reaches Shenzhen in 8:33 from Beijing. You could thus do a nearly full circle by CRH... only the gap between Beijing West and South cannot be crossed by HSR.
Because why the f%$& not.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 12:45 PM   #8184
jaysonn341
Registered User
 
jaysonn341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 318
Likes (Received): 334

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
You guys in the rich major cities will not believe that 95% of China is as I describe.

In fact I assumed long ago that those of you who disagree with my posts, lived and travelled only in the major, rich, or coastal, cities.

Of course this assessment was correct.

You live in a bubble. ""into the western areas,"". Yeah, such as west of Nanjing. Clueless. /s

I know and accept that most of China differs from Changzhou/Hangzhou, BSG, etc.

However you do not know or accept that Changzhou/Hangzhou differs from 95% of China.

This is the typical and default attitude of those in the major, rich, coastal cities.

You guys are posting how great Chinese infrastructure is when in fact you take the CRH from Shanghai to Changzhou and declare it modern.

What a joke.
I get what you're trying to say.
Apart from Melbourne, the rest of the state of Victoria isn't that great. It's the same concept.
If everything east of Nanjing is good, that's big enough area for me. I'll be looking forward to the western regions catching up on the development.
jaysonn341 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 04:57 PM   #8185
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
No no no. No splits. It has to be 100% train and 100% CRH. That's the whole idea.
It would still be 100% train and 100% CRH if you split Beijing-Guangzhou into e.g. Beijing-Wuhan and Wuhan-Guangzhou, and actually spent some hours or a day in Wuhan.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #8186
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 382

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
No no no. No splits. It has to be 100% train and 100% CRH. That's the whole idea.
You misunderstood me. Instead of taking whole Beijing-Guangzhou route at once, you can take Beijing-Wuhan, visit Wuhan for couple days then take Wuhan-Guangzhou..

edit: I didn't see :jax: post
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #8187
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Yours was more realistic though. Except for stretching your legs on a non-moving platform, and that you could add Wuhan to the list of visited cities, a few hours wouldn't make much of a difference, except turning a 10 hour trip into a 13-16 hour one. Spend the night in a hotel and you would feel rested when arriving in Guangzhou where you likely would have a long metro ride in front of you, unless you are hardcore 100% train and nothing else. A 10 hour trip feels more than twice as long as a 5 hour trip.

(Yes, in context of the other discussion, this is a matter of luxury given the travails of "real" long-distance travel. I too have done multi-day journeys through China on regular trains and busses, but it is still something I would try to avoid if I can.)
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 05:30 PM   #8188
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,505
Likes (Received): 6896

CHINA | High Speed Rail

You can still do the whole thing with CRH, but you should stop at unique places like Shantou and Xiamen. Few other places worldwide have such an amazing old town, and in the case of Xiamen, its own little historic island. But of course it depends what you want. I feel that China is developing so fast that I prefer to see the less-developed and/or historic areas before they are transformed forever. Guangdong/Fujian are unique on earth. The rest of China is somewhat more uniform.
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 07:09 PM   #8189
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
You misunderstood me. Instead of taking whole Beijing-Guangzhou route at once, you can take Beijing-Wuhan, visit Wuhan for couple days then take Wuhan-Guangzhou..

edit: I didn't see :jax: post
No you don't get me. When I say 100% train I mean 100% train. Only stops at major hubs (Shanghai, Beijing) and origin/destination (Shenzhen/Guangzhou). The whole point of Beijing-Guangzhou is to ride the fastest 7:59 hour service in one go. Same with Shenzhen-Shanghai with the fastest service at 12:00 hours.

It's not a sightseeing trip but a rail trip with nothing but CRH at the core. Plus, of course, I simply won't have enough time to stop at secondary cities even if I wanted to. I'll have a total of two weeks which will have to include my flights from Europe (2 days), some relaxation time in Macau (2-3 days), hiking and sightseeing in Hong Kong (2-3 days) sightseeing in Beijing (my first time there).

Of course I'll do the other option with stopovers at some point. There's loads I need to see in China. Perhaps this could be my next China rail trip which would include cities like Wuhan, Chengdu and Chongqing. Or ancient cities and landscapes. Of course all by rail.

Last edited by Pansori; June 11th, 2014 at 07:14 PM.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 07:20 PM   #8190
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
No you don't get me. When I say 100% train I mean 100% train. Only stops at major hubs (Shanghai, Beijing) and origin/destination (Shenzhen/Guangzhou). The whole point of Beijing-Guangzhou is to ride the fastest 7:59 hour service in one go. Same with Shenzhen-Shanghai with the fastest service at 12:00 hours.

It's not a sightseeing trip but a rail trip with nothing but CRH at the core. Plus, of course, I simply won't have enough time to stop at secondary cities even if I wanted to.
Beijing-Guangzhou is not the longest HSR train, tough. Beijing-Shenzhen is longer, and can be done in 8:33.
__________________

maginn liked this post
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #8191
flankerjun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Shenyang/Wuhan
Posts: 461
Likes (Received): 1230

the news for JULY 1st new schedule

passenger trains reach 2447 pairs,and 1330 pairs are high speed train,more than half of all the passenger trains,new freight train 118 pairs,including 3 China-EU freight trains.
flankerjun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2014, 10:01 PM   #8192
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
the news for JULY 1st new schedule

passenger trains reach 2447 pairs,and 1330 pairs are high speed train,more than half of all the passenger trains
Meaning 1117 pairs of slow speed trains. Is that an increase, too?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 03:19 AM   #8193
VECTROTALENZIS
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
 
VECTROTALENZIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,236
Likes (Received): 4436

To be honest China is sometimes shockingly backwards and underdeveloped outside of Yangtze River Delta, Beijing, Pearls River Delta. It's really like two different world's comparing Yangtze River Delta to the inland. I lived in China and traveled through the country so I know what I'm talking about.
__________________
_
VECTROTALENZIS liked this post
VECTROTALENZIS está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 06:42 AM   #8194
flankerjun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Shenyang/Wuhan
Posts: 461
Likes (Received): 1230

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Meaning 1117 pairs of slow speed trains. Is that an increase, too?
not change much.lots of short distance train cancelled and add many new long distance train.

来自我的 HTC One 上的 Tapatalk
__________________

chornedsnorkack liked this post
flankerjun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 09:42 AM   #8195
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
lots of short distance train cancelled
And that´s very bad.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 05:36 PM   #8196
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

Taiyuan Railway Bureau Announcement from today:

Yesterday, from the Taiyuan Railway Bureau, the adjustment Atlantic high-speed rail (Taiyuan - Xian segment) of open operations EMU 27 pairs, including Taiyuan South - Xi'an North 8 pairs, Taiyuan South - Baoji South 2 pairs, Taiyuan South - Yuncheng North 10 pairs Taiyuan South - Linfen West 1 pair. Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan passenger dedicated line Taiyuan newly opened South - Beijing West Rail trains 6 pairs.

Looks as though they are adding more trains from Taiyuan to Beijing to handle the increased throughput.

Note, again, that no trains will direct Xian-Taiyuan-Beijing at this time due to the different line design speeds.

Also add one Yuncheng to Xian weekend train, that from the Xian Bureau and why omitted from this press release.

Scheduled opening remains July 1. Dynamic acceptance and trial operations continuing with 7+1 trainsets.
__________________

chornedsnorkack liked this post
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 05:54 PM   #8197
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Note, again, that no trains will direct Xian-Taiyuan-Beijing at this time due to the different line design speeds.
A bad reason. The line design speed of Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan is already different from the line design speed of Shijiazhuang-Beijing and Shijiazhuang-Guangzhou, yet both carry direct trains.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 06:08 PM   #8198
China Hand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 705
Likes (Received): 161

As yet another example of what travel within China is like;

Buses from City A to City C stopped running at 520pm. Some routes run to 700pm but that is the latest. This is normal in many parts of the country and the norm outside of Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen and similar. The last bus of the day on many routes will leave between 5 and 6pm.

This route often 60 minutes to 105 minutes. One way. 52kms.

So a trip from City A to City B was required, then a trip from City B to City C.
I set out from my starting point at 540pm and arrived at my destination at 8:45pm.

3 hours 5 minutes, two legs of a journey, 81kms. Bus station to bus station. 26 kms per hour average travel speed, the norm for travel in China.

I fully expect everyone in this thread to post numerous examples of their massive denial, but the fact is that once you travel the one hour from Shanghai to Changzhou and move beyond that small bubble that your travel times will explode higher. It can, and does, and will, take 2 hours to travel the last 60kms of a journey when one disembarks at a CRH station after traveling 600kms in 2hours.

This reality must be acknowledged, because visitors to China will read the lies here and think that they can zip around the country and that is simply not true. These travel times will easily add DAYS to an itinerary and must be factored into any trip in China.

Even within a city, it can take 2 hours to travel above ground 12 kms in bad rush hour traffic in any of the major cities that lack a subway, and almost all cities in China do at this date.

12 kms in 2 hours is 6kph. That is walking speed and that is from sitting in a city bus stuck in legendary gridlock that one can find in most Chinese cities.

The only way to avoid this is to fly to all points or to hire a driver - but you and that driver will be stuck in the gridlock with everyone else.

One could restrict your travel to cities will built-out subways that connect to built-out PDL CRH HSR but it should be obvious that 90+% of China does not meet those critieria.

Again, I expect everyone to tell me that this is not so.

What do I know, I only have lived here for 6+ years and I take the bus on a weekly basis.
China Hand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 07:17 PM   #8199
maginn
maginn
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 57
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
As yet another example of what travel within China is like;

Buses from City A to City C stopped running at 520pm. Some routes run to 700pm but that is the latest. This is normal in many parts of the country and the norm outside of Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen and similar. The last bus of the day on many routes will leave between 5 and 6pm.

This route often 60 minutes to 105 minutes. One way. 52kms.

So a trip from City A to City B was required, then a trip from City B to City C.
I set out from my starting point at 540pm and arrived at my destination at 8:45pm.

3 hours 5 minutes, two legs of a journey, 81kms. Bus station to bus station. 26 kms per hour average travel speed, the norm for travel in China.

I fully expect everyone in this thread to post numerous examples of their massive denial, but the fact is that once you travel the one hour from Shanghai to Changzhou and move beyond that small bubble that your travel times will explode higher. It can, and does, and will, take 2 hours to travel the last 60kms of a journey when one disembarks at a CRH station after traveling 600kms in 2hours.

This reality must be acknowledged, because visitors to China will read the lies here and think that they can zip around the country and that is simply not true. These travel times will easily add DAYS to an itinerary and must be factored into any trip in China.

Even within a city, it can take 2 hours to travel above ground 12 kms in bad rush hour traffic in any of the major cities that lack a subway, and almost all cities in China do at this date.

12 kms in 2 hours is 6kph. That is walking speed and that is from sitting in a city bus stuck in legendary gridlock that one can find in most Chinese cities.

The only way to avoid this is to fly to all points or to hire a driver - but you and that driver will be stuck in the gridlock with everyone else.

One could restrict your travel to cities will built-out subways that connect to built-out PDL CRH HSR but it should be obvious that 90+% of China does not meet those critieria.

Again, I expect everyone to tell me that this is not so.

What do I know, I only have lived here for 6+ years and I take the bus on a weekly basis.
Which city in China do you live?
maginn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2014, 07:44 PM   #8200
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
As yet another example of what travel within China is like;

Buses from City A to City C stopped running at 520pm. Some routes run to 700pm but that is the latest. This is normal in many parts of the country and the norm outside of Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen and similar. The last bus of the day on many routes will leave between 5 and 6pm.

This route often 60 minutes to 105 minutes. One way. 52kms.

So a trip from City A to City B was required, then a trip from City B to City C.
I set out from my starting point at 540pm and arrived at my destination at 8:45pm.

3 hours 5 minutes, two legs of a journey, 81kms. Bus station to bus station. 26 kms per hour average travel speed, the norm for travel in China.

I fully expect everyone in this thread to post numerous examples of their massive denial, but the fact is that once you travel the one hour from Shanghai to Changzhou and move beyond that small bubble that your travel times will explode higher. It can, and does, and will, take 2 hours to travel the last 60kms of a journey when one disembarks at a CRH station after traveling 600kms in 2hours.
Nice example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
This reality must be acknowledged, because visitors to China will read the lies here and think that they can zip around the country and that is simply not true. These travel times will easily add DAYS to an itinerary and must be factored into any trip in China.
Pansori is planning to zip around the country. He can - but that´s exactly AROUND the country - Shenzhen-Shanghai-Beijing-Wuhan-Shenzhen, or something like that. It is true that he can zip around the country - but he cannot get into the country. Even Nanchang is hard to get to, let alone somewhere in a village in a remote county.

I´ll counter with an example from my country.
I need to be in a certain village this Saturday (Funeral of a relative).
The map will tell me that the village is 33 km from the nearest town, and a hard road goes there.
The map does not lie. I have travelled the distance many times, and the road is hard.

The bus goes from the village to town in 48 minutes. Average speed thus 41 km/h. Actually a pretty good time (see below).

The problem?
On Saturday, the only bus to the town leaves the village at 8:32! No way to get back from the funeral!

This is not the case on Sunday - 2 buses... both in the evening. It is also not the case on Friday - 5 buses around the day. But Saturday - no way to get to the village and back.

It used not to be the case a few years ago, when travelling there and back was possible any day.

Also: as stated 41 km/h is a good speed for a hard road. That 48 minutes is better than the other times. The buses I mentioned on Sunday and Friday take either 50...55 minutes (the said 33 km hard road) or else as much as 1:20 (for longer, circuitous routes that serve other villages and are partly on gravel roads).

So: I quite imagine that moving off the HSR network to countryside gets slow. The question is, how long that last stretch needs to be.

Also: webpages may lie. But very often they simply do not tell you what you do not think to look for.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium