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Old August 1st, 2014, 05:26 PM   #8361
chornedsnorkack
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Also gotta say great map! I didn't realize the Guangshen Railway is not connected to any other CRH railway lines. Is it really all by itself? I thought Shenzhen Railway station in Luohu would have connections to other cities other then Dongguan and Guangzhou on the CRH network.
Where does Shenzhen-Zhangmutou railway cross Shenzhen North-Xiamen high speed railway?
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Old August 1st, 2014, 07:32 PM   #8362
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Where does Shenzhen-Zhangmutou railway cross Shenzhen North-Xiamen high speed railway?
If you go from Luohu towards Dongguan, the crossing is right before the S28 (Shuiguan Expressway): https://goo.gl/maps/Y3nQM
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Old August 2nd, 2014, 09:54 AM   #8363
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Guangzhou-Shenzhen railway is an upgraded conventional line (connected to slow rail network).
Which is slightly connected to fast rail network.
Guangzhou North is a station of both slow and fast rail network. Guangzhou North is 47 km from Guangzhou South, and 27 km from Guangzhou.

What is Guangzhou North station like, and how are fast and slow rail tracks located there? Should it be physically possible for a high speed train to travel 27 km on slow railway from Guangzhou to Guangzhou North and then continue on fast railway towards Changsha?
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 06:56 PM   #8364
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Which is slightly connected to fast rail network.
Guangzhou North is a station of both slow and fast rail network. Guangzhou North is 47 km from Guangzhou South, and 27 km from Guangzhou.

What is Guangzhou North station like, and how are fast and slow rail tracks located there? Should it be physically possible for a high speed train to travel 27 km on slow railway from Guangzhou to Guangzhou North and then continue on fast railway towards Changsha?
Would be nice if they can do that and continue onto Shenzhen ... for some reason it cannot be done and trains go to Shenzhen North instead. I think the tracks cannot support G-speeds.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 09:01 PM   #8365
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Would be nice if they can do that and continue onto Shenzhen ... for some reason it cannot be done and trains go to Shenzhen North instead. I think the tracks cannot support G-speeds.
Why is that an obstacle? It is just 27 km. Trains which travel from Nanjing to Shanghai through Shanghai West are also designated G, but the section Shanghai West-Shanghai certainly cannot support G train speeds. I think the last station shared with high speed tracks to Hongqiao is Anting North, 29 km from Shanghai.

So why cannot Guangzhou main station receive high speed trains like Shanghai main station does?
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Old August 4th, 2014, 05:10 AM   #8366
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Which is slightly connected to fast rail network.
Guangzhou North is a station of both slow and fast rail network. Guangzhou North is 47 km from Guangzhou South, and 27 km from Guangzhou.

What is Guangzhou North station like, and how are fast and slow rail tracks located there? Should it be physically possible for a high speed train to travel 27 km on slow railway from Guangzhou to Guangzhou North and then continue on fast railway towards Changsha?
Guangzhou East


(baidu)

I had taken train to Shenzhen from Guangzhou East in 1990s and I still remember how shabby that station looked back then.
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Old August 4th, 2014, 08:55 AM   #8367
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Guangzhou East
I had taken train to Shenzhen from Guangzhou East in 1990s and I still remember how shabby that station looked back then.
The first 27 km between Guangzhou and Shenzhen contain, besides Guangzhou East, stations Yunlu, Shipai, Jishan, Xiayuan.

What do these stations look like?
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Old August 4th, 2014, 10:30 AM   #8368
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The first 27 km between Guangzhou and Shenzhen contain, besides Guangzhou East, stations Yunlu, Shipai, Jishan, Xiayuan.

What do these stations look like?
Those stations are frieight ones and there's no passenger services anymore.
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Old August 4th, 2014, 05:14 PM   #8369
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Those stations are frieight ones and there's no passenger services anymore.
They should reactivate them for MTR East Rail line style services. Both the Guangzhou and Shenzhen metros need some help.
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Old August 4th, 2014, 08:50 PM   #8370
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World Bank has found some regional economic benefits of high speed railways:
http://www.worldbank.org/content/dam...n-china-en.pdf
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Old August 4th, 2014, 10:09 PM   #8371
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Wow, that is quite a condescending statement. You really think their engineers aren't as capable, or more so, than their western counterparts, in understanding "engineering"? You really think they live in caves and aren't really up to date with the latest engineering techs and their limitations? I'd figure you probably think their degrees and certificates are all for show, and are not worth the paper its printed on? LOL
Noting the risks in an accelerated construction schedule is not condescending, it's smart. As he noted, small issues in construction caused big problems decades later in Europe. Europe has excellent engineers but didn't know everything. Engineering science has improved a lot since the 1970s but there is still things to learn and improve. Engineering is not perfect. The engineering textbooks of the 2040s will be a big improvement on current textbooks.

You should to lighten up and be willing to listen to criticism without resorting to personal attacks against the messenger.
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Old August 5th, 2014, 03:58 AM   #8372
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
World Bank has found some regional economic benefits of high speed railways:
http://www.worldbank.org/content/dam...n-china-en.pdf
Great findings of HSR benefit: up 10% of business productivity, higher regional GDP, tourism boost.

Imagine the impact after 5 years when the HSR network's missing links are patched
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Old August 5th, 2014, 04:10 AM   #8373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Great findings of HSR benefit: up 10% of business productivity, higher regional GDP, tourism boost.

Imagine the impact after 5 years when the HSR network's missing links are patched
Isn't that more or less common sense?

I would have not even considered to do what I have done and am planning to do in China i.e. travel between cities or around the country by rail (which I am planing to do later this year). It changed from 'very complicated' to 'easy peasy' in just a few years. Naturally this will encourage more and more tourists to travel and explore more than they would have if not for HSR.
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Old August 5th, 2014, 08:44 AM   #8374
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Great findings of HSR benefit: up 10% of business productivity, higher regional GDP, tourism boost.

Imagine the impact after 5 years when the HSR network's missing links are patched
One major missing link is exactly the connections around the city. Page 62 complains that the stations of Beijing-Shanghai high speed railway are in "urban periphery" and hard to reach.

How about operating, on Guangzhou North-Guangzhou-Shenzhen railway line, trains which are electric multiple units, have good acceleration out of stations and high top speed to reach on, e. g., the 8 km stretch between Shipai and Jishan, and which pick up passengers from the stations through Guangzhou suburbs both on the 147 km through Shenzhen and Dongguan as well as some stations on the 27 km Guangzhou-Guangzhou North?
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Old August 5th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #8375
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Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
I wonder if due to the extremely fast adoption of advanced construction technologies also small faults make it into the infrastructures (bridges, concrete ballastless track etc...)...
Anyway, lets see, time will tell :-)
This is a legitimate concern, compare to Japan and Europe China has less time to observe earlier HSR construction to evaluate long term effects on the structures compare to other countries, and the challenging geographical reality means China has to adopt bold (often new) engineering solutions to overcome those. I'm sure Chinese engineers realized this and as many reports indicate they are using extremely tight error tolerances during construction so that future deformations are limited, for example a section of Wuhan-Yichang railway was rebuilt after the embankment was found to have a deviation of a couple of millimeters during calibration. They also employ an aggressive maintenance program to keep the infrastructure in good order, besides constant inspections, a calibration train is run regularly (sometimes daily) over the tracks for calibration purposes.

Also it's been 11 years since the opening of China's first PDL (often called China's first high speed rail), which served as the design base for today's HSR infrastructure. Therefore it's not like they have absolutely no historical data to do comparison, and they have drawn quite bit of experience from established HSR countries, for example, the ballastless track is based on German technology IIRC.
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Old August 6th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #8376
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Hi, this is a very cute/adorable animation video made by China South Locomotive & Rolling Stock Corporation Limited. It is not as informative as you may expect, however,I think the way it adopts to educate the general public about the high speed rail is highly applauded.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzUxNzI1ODcy.html
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Old August 6th, 2014, 07:14 PM   #8377
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Lol, it is an awesome video.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 09:54 PM   #8378
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Isn't that more or less common sense?

I would have not even considered to do what I have done and am planning to do in China i.e. travel between cities or around the country by rail (which I am planing to do later this year). It changed from 'very complicated' to 'easy peasy' in just a few years. Naturally this will encourage more and more tourists to travel and explore more than they would have if not for HSR.
Yes. There is a large amount of latent demand waiting for these stations and trains to open. People who want to travel, have the money, but it's just too much of a hassle, too slow, too time consuming without the HSR.

Once they open, they reach 90% capacity within one month.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 09:14 PM   #8379
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Yes. There is a large amount of latent demand waiting for these stations and trains to open. People who want to travel, have the money, but it's just too much of a hassle, too slow, too time consuming without the HSR.

Once they open, they reach 90% capacity within one month.
Meaning too little has been built yet.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 05:08 PM   #8380
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Meaning too little has been built yet.
The lines are quite extensive, and the frequencies are very good actually coming out of the major cities. Guess they didn't anticipate of the need to 3x-4x the tracks during the design phase so quickly.
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