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Old September 22nd, 2014, 07:37 PM   #8501
Grunnen
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Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
China Hand, it's amazing but here in India at our equivalent of the lunar holiday i.e. Diwali and summer we have the same situation. You would be amazed at how many say the exact same thing: I don't mind taking many hours more to travel by a slow, cheap train which is packed but I cannot afford to take a flight-even if it costs Rs 2-3,000 more. I guess this is a problem of countries with poor people who travel big distances.
It's the same in first-world countries. Some railway companies offer cheap tickets that are only valid on slow trains, like the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket in Germany or the Youth-18-ticket (misleading name; adults also eligible) in Japan. There are quite some people, such as students, who use such a ticket to go all the way across the country with such a ticket, because they find price more important than speed and convenience.

I guess that this group of people is just simply bigger in a country like China or India. It seems that middle class people in China often have an income of something like ¥5000/month. I can imagine that ticket prices are more important in that case, then if you earn something like ¥20000.
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 08:12 PM   #8502
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Originally Posted by Grunnen View Post
It's the same in first-world countries. Some railway companies offer cheap tickets that are only valid on slow trains, like the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket in Germany or the Youth-18-ticket (misleading name; adults also eligible) in Japan. There are quite some people, such as students, who use such a ticket to go all the way across the country with such a ticket, because they find price more important than speed and convenience.

I guess that this group of people is just simply bigger in a country like China or India. It seems that middle class people in China often have an income of something like ¥5000/month. I can imagine that ticket prices are more important in that case, then if you earn something like ¥20000.
Grunnen, in countries like India and China there are specific times where you have HUGE travel rush. Are there specific times when you have the same level of rush in first world countries? I don't think so, though I may be wrong. The reason is? Many people in first world countries have options. Go by long distance bus, go by plane or go by train. But for a lot of people in India or China the cheap berth on a train is THE ONLY option. Flights are first, expensive and second, they don't go everywhere. Long distance buses are uncomfortable and in India's case, expensive too. There is a lot of price gouging by bus companies at peak times.
By the way, what does companies mean? Are there are more than one company running the railways there?
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 08:23 PM   #8503
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You can't please all people all the time... There is a good reason why most markets have basic and premium services. In this context HSR and air travel are midscale and premium services.

Last edited by Sunfuns; September 22nd, 2014 at 08:58 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 08:32 PM   #8504
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Out of interest anyone here knows what is an approximate percentage of Chinese households making at least ¥10,000/month? Those would be natural customers for HS rail and cross country flights.
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 08:54 PM   #8505
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Grunnen, in countries like India and China there are specific times where you have HUGE travel rush. Are there specific times when you have the same level of rush in first world countries? I don't think so, though I may be wrong. The reason is? Many people in first world countries have options. Go by long distance bus, go by plane or go by train. But for a lot of people in India or China the cheap berth on a train is THE ONLY option. Flights are first, expensive and second, they don't go everywhere. Long distance buses are uncomfortable and in India's case, expensive too. There is a lot of price gouging by bus companies at peak times.
Recently, I saw an interesting talk on CCTV. An expert said that Chinese people should have more paid holidays, particularly by making sure that employees actually use the holidays that they are entitled to. Because in his opinion, the problem is that there is a huge travel rush only during the few public holidays, which is difficult to accomodate, not only by the transportation but also by the tourist industry itself.

Here in Europe, our main travelling holiday (the summer vacation) doesn't start and end at the same date everywhere. Even inside my small country of the Netherlands, different regions have their summer vacation a few weeks shifted compared to other regions. This spreads the traffic and prevents the transport system from collapsing completely - even though there are still a lot of traffic jams when the holidays begin in any one region.
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 08:58 PM   #8506
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Here in Europe, our main travelling holiday (the summer vacation) doesn't start and end at the same date everywhere. Even inside my small country of the Netherlands, different regions have their summer vacation a few weeks shifted compared to other regions. This spreads the traffic and prevents the transport system from collapsing completely - even though there are still a lot of traffic jams when the holidays begin in any one region.
You mean summer vacation for kids? I think Germany does that too.
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 09:43 PM   #8507
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Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
Grunnen, in countries like India and China there are specific times where you have HUGE travel rush. Are there specific times when you have the same level of rush in first world countries? I don't think so, though I may be wrong.
Japan is first world and has a huge travel rush to and from New Year - the wrong one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
The reason is? Many people in first world countries have options. Go by long distance bus, go by plane or go by train. But for a lot of people in India or China the cheap berth on a train is THE ONLY option. Flights are first, expensive and second, they don't go everywhere. Long distance buses are uncomfortable and in India's case, expensive too. There is a lot of price gouging by bus companies at peak times.
China does not have any sleeper only trains. All sleeper trains also have hard seats, and these are appreciably cheaper than hard sleepers.
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 09:47 PM   #8508
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Some information about price comparison, better than that of an employee of an airline communications




The graphics are from may 2011, before the fall of speeds and prices in CRH.
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Old September 23rd, 2014, 01:10 AM   #8509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
Grunnen, in countries like India and China there are specific times where you have HUGE travel rush. Are there specific times when you have the same level of rush in first world countries? I don't think so, though I may be wrong. The reason is? Many people in first world countries have options. Go by long distance bus, go by plane or go by train. But for a lot of people in India or China the cheap berth on a train is THE ONLY option. Flights are first, expensive and second, they don't go everywhere. Long distance buses are uncomfortable and in India's case, expensive too. There is a lot of price gouging by bus companies at peak times. By the way, what does companies mean? Are there are more than one company running the railways there?
By stats China's expressway carries way more traffic than rail as of now. With a complete expressway network traveling by long distance bus is cheap and convenient.
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Old September 23rd, 2014, 10:31 AM   #8510
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By stats China's expressway carries way more traffic than rail as of now. With a complete expressway network traveling by long distance bus is cheap and convenient.
Which is why CRH needs to be cheap and convenient and complete.
How do D train prices now compare with long distance buses?
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Old September 23rd, 2014, 11:10 AM   #8511
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Which is why CRH needs to be cheap and convenient and complete.
How do D train prices now compare with long distance buses?
Cheaper but less frequently with very few stops. That's why buses are quite still useful and used.
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Old September 23rd, 2014, 12:28 PM   #8512
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Cheaper but less frequently with very few stops. That's why buses are quite still useful and used.
Indeed the shortage of stations is a problem with most CRH lines. Although not quite all.

Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway runs D trains. And on the 116 km between Guangzhou South and Zhuhai, there are 15 intermediate stations, starting with Bijiang Station 5 km from Guangzhou South (but in Foshan) and ending with Qianshan Station, in Zhuhai 3 km from Zhuhai Station. The longest stretches without a station are 12 km sections between Dongsheng and Zhongshan North, and Tangjiawan and Mingzhu.

For comparison, the neighbouring Shenzhen-Xiamen high speed railway also runs D trains, but it has just 3 intermediate stations in the 123 km stretch between Longhua and Houmen Stations. No stations on the 36 km section between Longhua and Pingshan stations in Shenzhen, whereas the 37 km section of Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway has 5 intermediate stations in Foshan on the 37 km section between Guangzhou South and Nantou stations.

How well does Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway compete against buses?
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Old September 23rd, 2014, 05:16 PM   #8513
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For comparison, the neighbouring Shenzhen-Xiamen high speed railway also runs D trains, but it has just 3 intermediate stations in the 123 km stretch between Longhua and Houmen Stations. No stations on the 36 km section between Longhua and Pingshan stations in Shenzhen,
I'd say that this should not be so much of a problem by itself, because it is high speed rail.

But there seems to be a lack of connectivity. You have the HSR network, with large station distances and which is useful for intercity trips. And you have the metro, with many stations but which seems to take a thousand years to get accross the city, e.g. from Futian to Longgang. What is missing, I think, is some intermediate category, such as express metro services like in New York or Japan, as well as interchanges at stations like Guangming and Pingshan HSR.
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Old September 23rd, 2014, 05:45 PM   #8514
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+1 express services across the city. Problem is you'll need to create a new line for this? Or bypass lines and good timing...
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Old September 23rd, 2014, 08:37 PM   #8515
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Hey
This year or next year
CRH Timetables
Have from Beijing South to Tianjin West?? please reply me! Thanks
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||CHINA|||
说:
> 同一个世界
> 同一个做夢
> 同一个中国
(同一个北京)(同一个上海)(同一个天津)(同一个广州)(同一个深圳)(同一个重庆)(同一个杭州)(同一个南京)(同一个沈陽)(同一个武汉)(同一个成都)(同一个長春)(同一个长沙)(同一个苏州)(同一个无锡)(同一个扬州)(同一个西安)(同一个吉林)(同一个青島)(同一个大连)(同一个厦门)(同一个潮州)(同一个高州)(同一个香港)(同一个澳門)
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Old September 24th, 2014, 12:35 AM   #8516
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Hey
This year or next year
CRH Timetables
Have from Beijing South to Tianjin West?? please reply me! Thanks
Hi, I did a search on 12306. There are 111 trains leaving Beijing South and arriving at Tianjin/Tianjin South (doesn't show Tianjin West).

The departure time in Beijing is from 1:43 to 22:52 , although it is stated that 23:00 to 7:00 is the maintenance period. So I am not sure if there are indeed trains leaving at 1:43 and etc. The average duration of the trip is less than 40 min.

In addition, the 111 trains include G trains (Gaotie = high speed), D trains (Dongche = still high speed) and C trains (Chengji = inter-city between the two major cities of Beijing and Tianjin)
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Old September 24th, 2014, 11:33 AM   #8517
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Guiyang-Guangzhou HSR

CRH380A tests run has begun in Guangxi,South of China.
1.

2.

3.


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Old September 24th, 2014, 12:41 PM   #8518
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CRH380A tests run has begun in Guangxi,South of China.
Does this railway get through Guilin?
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Old September 24th, 2014, 06:11 PM   #8519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dao123 View Post
Hi, I did a search on 12306. There are 111 trains leaving Beijing South and arriving at Tianjin/Tianjin South (doesn't show Tianjin West).

The departure time in Beijing is from 1:43 to 22:52 , although it is stated that 23:00 to 7:00 is the maintenance period. So I am not sure if there are indeed trains leaving at 1:43 and etc. The average duration of the trip is less than 40 min.

In addition, the 111 trains include G trains (Gaotie = high speed), D trains (Dongche = still high speed) and C trains (Chengji = inter-city between the two major cities of Beijing and Tianjin)
Oh , Thank You Brother! I want visit Tianjin west!! I feel no need Beijing south! go to Beijing Railway from Tianjin west?? have any timetables??
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||CHINA|||
说:
> 同一个世界
> 同一个做夢
> 同一个中国
(同一个北京)(同一个上海)(同一个天津)(同一个广州)(同一个深圳)(同一个重庆)(同一个杭州)(同一个南京)(同一个沈陽)(同一个武汉)(同一个成都)(同一个長春)(同一个长沙)(同一个苏州)(同一个无锡)(同一个扬州)(同一个西安)(同一个吉林)(同一个青島)(同一个大连)(同一个厦门)(同一个潮州)(同一个高州)(同一个香港)(同一个澳門)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I LoVe ChInA
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Old September 25th, 2014, 03:52 AM   #8520
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Does this railway get through Guilin?
Yes. The 857km HSR will cover major cities such as Guiyang, Duyun, Guilin, Hezhou, zhaoqing, Foshan, Guangzhou. It will open on Dec 30 2014.
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